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The Adept
08-12-2007, 13:32
Hi there. I normally play dark elves and skaven, but I've been looking into a chaos army recently. I don't want to buy models I'm not going to use this time (poor Black Guard!), so I'm working out a 2k list ahead of time. And here it is, ready to be pulled apart!

Exalted Champion (General) 235pts
- MoK
- Daemonic mount
- Berserker sword
- Enchanted Shield

Great Bray Shaman [Beasts] 275pts
- Lvl 4
- Staff of Darkoth
- Chaos Armour
- Dispel Scroll

Bray Shaman [Beasts] 156
- Lvl 2
- Bray staff
- Spell familiar
- Power stone

Bray Shaman [Beasts] 141
- Lvl 2
- Bray staff
- Dispel scroll


Marauders x10 60
- Flails

Marauders x10 60
- Flails

Marauders x20 165
- Light armour and shields
- Full command

4 x 5 Chaos hounds 120


Beast herd 125
- 6 Gors, 12 Ungors
- Full command

Bestigor herd x20 315
- Full command
- MoK

Centigors x10 225
- Shield
- Full command

Chaos Furies x8 120

Pd: 10, Dd: 8, 2xscroll, 120 models


The idea is to use the marauder block and the Bestigors as anvils. The bestigors have got frenzy (to max out those Str6 attacks), but the high move of some of my flankers should reduce the problem. Plus, I can screen with furies/marauder flails. The flankers are marauder flails, centigors and chaos hounds.

The Great Shaman will go in the Bestigors (with Bears Anger or his big stick, he can hold his own in combat), and the other shamans with the beast herd. The general will run around whereever he's needed, putting all those attacks (4+frenzy+berzerker sword) wherever they'll hurt the most.

The hounds, furies and general can war machine hunt and mage hunt. I'm a little worried about the herd pankicking and carrying off 4 magic levels, though!

Any ideas?

theunwantedbeing
08-12-2007, 13:44
I'de swap the spell familiar and power stone for the power familiar personally, just down to it offering an extra 6 dice for each phase over the whole game, rather than 2 dice in the casting phase and an extra spell.

Musicians for those marauders with flails gives them the added ability to be an effective bait unit. I'de drop a single furie to do that.

Otherwise it looks alright.

SevenSins
09-12-2007, 09:42
the flail marauders look a bit weakish, 10 lightly armored slow flankers? Try to squeeze in a pack or two of 5 marauderhorsemen with flails, they'll do the same only better and faster. not much point in shields on centigors (other than wysiwyg)

The Adept
10-12-2007, 06:27
Thanks for the comments, guys!

Taking them into account, I'll drop the marauder flails, the spell familiar and power stone, the centegor shields (though they may come back later, for more protection against shooting when not in woods) and one unit of hounds. Then I'll put in a power familiar, two units of horseman w/ flails, and use the remaining few points for horseman command (music, in all likelyhood).

Any other ideas? Or anyone want to passionatly argue for the use of centegor shields and throwaway units of marauders?

Kerill
10-12-2007, 06:37
A khorne general for an army with 11PD and 8 levels of magic? That is so wrong. Really really wrong.

For constructive comments- if you swap the marauders with flails for DOW norse marauders with flails they would be a lot more powerful and more in with a (alleged) Khorne theme due to the frenzy.

Little Aaad
10-12-2007, 16:47
Drop MOK and swap the flails for GW's. Add 10 warhounds for the Khonre mark and somthing else. Warhounds protect Marauders.

Eigilb
10-12-2007, 17:42
Just for the record. Don't screen low LD units with warhounds, they are pure panic spreaders. IMO they´re good at preventing your khorne units from charging bait, or screening chosen knights.

In addition they models are pretty expensive compared to what they do on the battlefield.

I once had 2 marauder blocks panicing off the board in the turn of the game because my 2 warhounds units got shot paniced and fled through them. What can you learn from that? ... Screen your warhounds!:p

MarcoPollo
11-12-2007, 00:06
Actually screening with hounds is just fine. You only really have to worry about two scenarios.

1) When only 2 dogs die from shooting (then the dogs take a panic test). Then if the dogs fail the panic, then anything else around them will also panic test as it is over US 5.
And at ld 7 that's like a 20% chance (1 in 5) of a main unit failing their test.
2)If the entire unit is wiped out by shooting or magic. Then your units around it will also take panic tests.

Other than these two scenarios, you are fine. If they only kill one dog, it does not make a panic for the dogs.

If they kill 3 or 4 then the dogs won't cause panic if they flee (which you may even want them to do).

BattleofLund
11-12-2007, 01:41
I thought I read something about Centigor shields, and the be-or-be-not of them?
Take them. Not only will they cut down on annoyance-casualties (S3 missile fire that slip past your T4), but also allow the Centigors to 'parry' in hand-to-hand. So when they get charged, they get a 4+ save with their shields. Quite nice for a unit with a good chunk of static CR already (rank+banner+outnumber against a character for example).

The Adept
11-12-2007, 07:01
Droping the MoK would stop me taking it on the Bestigors (you've got to have either the general or another character with the mark to have it on a unit), and I want to keep it on the 'Gors for those extra Str 6 attacks. If it wasn't for that, I would have it on the general!

I don't like the idea of GWs on the marauders - there's only ten of them, so I don't exspect the combat to last more than a turn, one way or another. Plus, I want to keep them as cheep as possible, as they can be throw away. That is, if I don't drop them for horsemen!

I liked the centigor shields, as well. I'm going to have a re-write soon, taking into account everything said here. I'm gonna try to keep the shields.

Kerill
11-12-2007, 14:27
Wy not drop the bestigor for minotaurs and drop the mark of Khorne on the general as well. Won't lose much effectiveness and you will no longer have the least fluffy atmy in a 100km radius. Or you could go for tzeentch lord and minotaurs for an even better magic phase.

The Adept
11-12-2007, 19:01
That's a great idea! I can have a better character set up, and I don't have to buy and paint a unit of 20 metals!

How's this:

Vardek Crom, herald of Archon 230
This guy's hardcore. He fights just as well as a tooled up chaos lord, give marauders and horsemen MoCU for free, and only costs 230pts!

Wargor 170
- MoT
- Heavy armour, shield
- Great weapon
- Rune of the True Beast
Anti-dragon tech. He'll challenge any monster mounted character, stoping the mount from attacking with the rune, because the mount fights in the challenge as well! And as a wargor, he can hold his own.

Wargor 190
- MoT
- Heavy armour, shield
- Great weapon
- 2 x Dispel Scroll
Caddy. Who can kick ass! What other caddy can put out 3 Str 6, WS 5 attacks?

Wargor 184
- MoT
- Heavy Armour
- BSB
- Gore Banner
Casts, hits stuff, +1 CR, re-roll break tests and give the unit a re-roll on panic.

Marauders x 10 65
- Flails
- Music
- MoCU (from Crom)

Marauders x 10 65
- Flails
- Music
- MoCU (from Crom)
I know these guys weren't too popular above, but I like them. Cheap, can put out some pain. They can be used as flankers, bait, distractions, sacrifices or quater claimers. And their Str 5 attacks can't be ignored!

Marauders x 20 165
- Light armour, shields
- Full command
- MoCU (from Crom)
Static CR. Cheap, 4+ save, mark of chaos undev. A good deal. Crom will likely go in here.

Marauder Horsemen x 5 81
- Flails
- Music
- MoCU (from Crom)

Marauder Horsemen x 5 81
- Flails
- Music
- MoCU (from Crom)
Fast cavelry is great. Simple as that. With the mark, Str 5 and a low cost, these guys make good war machine hunters. They should be able to take out support units as well.

Chaos Hounds x 5 30

Chaos Hounds x 5 30

Chaos Hounds x 5 30

Chaos Hounds x 5 30
Good doggies!

Centigors x10 225
- Shields
- Full command
Fast, hard hitting and resiliant. The shields are back - they seem to be worth the investment. This big unit will act as heavy cav, with the bonus of moving through woods.

Beast herd 155
- 8 Gors / 16 Ungors
- Full command
The super herd! The three Wargors will go in here, creating a manourverable unit that hits very hard and cannot be ignored thanks to the casting. The Gore Banner that the BSB has should add some resistance to shooting panic. No shields on the ungors, because a 6+ save isn't worth the points. Shields or 2HW on the gors is the only question.

Furies x 8 120
Crossfire, war machine hunting and a one turn tar pit if the BSB is near by (and if I'm lucky!), these flappy things seem very useful for their points. And they cause fear, which helps.

Minotaurs x 3 158
- Great Weapons
- Bloodkine
- MoCU
As recommended by Kerill. I'm not sure on the best set up for these guys, but I like their durability, damage potential and fear. These could change in number and set up.



How does this look?

SevenSins
11-12-2007, 21:02
eggs and baskets eyh?
Looks good, although I believe it's illegal. You'll need a unit with a matching mark for each marked character. As you run Crom this shouldn't be a prob as you then can buy marks for marauders...

Belerophon709
11-12-2007, 21:47
Characters with the Mark of Chaos Undivided are exempt from the rule regarding having to have a unit with the same mark in the army.

BattleofLund
12-12-2007, 01:46
For a character to have a Mark other than the General, he needs a corresponding Marked unit. The other way around, a Marked unit does NOT need a Marked character being present. Your Khorngors would be legal on their own.

@SevenSins: having Crom as General allows Marauders to take the Mark of Chaos Undivided - no other Mark, though they may be unmarked as normal. (This is useful for Marked characters who aren't of the same type as their Marked unit. I e, Aspiring Champion of Khorne riding with Horsemen instead of on his own because he can't join Khorngors.)

The Adept
12-12-2007, 05:57
I thought it was the other way round - you need a marked character in order to take a marked unit. I'll look it up at home tonight. If I'm wrong (quite likely), then I guess thing will have to change round. I'd turn the wargors to bray shaman (with the lore of beasts, so they all have Bears Anger). The extra points will likely be a beastmen chariot (as the furies are a rare unit, thanks to Croms rules, I have a special slot spare).

Kerill
12-12-2007, 09:21
That looks so much nicer now I have to say. If you want to keep the wargors just invest in a tzeentch chariot and you are sorted. Chariots are also gold against the new high elves. Chariot with mounted exalted (eye of tzeentch, flail shield) is also a nasty combo although I wouldn't necessarily recommend it here if you want a functionable super herd.

I would drop the bloodkine on the minotaurs (you don't want challenges) and it saves you 20 points.

I would also recommend dropping a dispel scroll for the goretooth (bears anger and hatred re-rolls) or the staff of darkoth (counts as a magic great weapon, saves you 4 points, can be used defensively at need and gives you the best movement spell in the game- at least for hounds and herds).

Rune of the true beast tends to be a bit of a waste a lot of the time, why not go for the armout of damnation (re-roll hits and a 4+ save) most things aren;t dragons and dragon mounted lords can generally take out a T4 2 wound wargor with a 5+save on the charge anyway.

Those together can save you around 25 points.

MAny would argue that the unit of centigor is too big, still you can play around with it, but if you need to shave a few points this is the place. You can also demote some gors to ungors and maybe drop a unit of foot marauders if you want to make up some points elsewhere.

cold0
12-12-2007, 10:32
1) When only 2 dogs die from shooting (then the dogs take a panic test). Then if the dogs fail the panic, then anything else around them will also panic test as it is over US 5.
And at Ld 7 that's like a 20% chance (1 in 5) of a main unit failing their test.
2)If the entire unit is wiped out by shooting or magic. Then your units around it will also take panic tests.

Sometimes the result can be catastrophic! Playing my Tzeentch Army vs Lizardman a unit of 5 warhounds lost a combat phase vs. some skinks skirmishers. Well the 3 fleeing warhounds (unit strength 6) have caused a series of panic tests in my army and, at the second turn, I have lost half of it. Two Aspiring Champions, 4 Chosen knights, 5 Marauder Horsemen and 20 Marauders left the table at the same turn :mad: even if I have my Chaos Lord within 12"!! This happened even because the table wasn't regular, with a deployment zone of only 8" and an incredible series of 10s and 11s on the panic tests. Anyway, while the warhounds remain good as screen, sometimes their destruction/panic could be nefarious for the rest of army, especially the poor-Ld beastmen.

The Adept
12-12-2007, 15:21
D'oh! This should be legal...

Lord:
Vardek Crom, herald of Archon 230

Heros:
Wargor 186
- MoT
- Heavy armour, shield
- Dispel Scroll
- Staff of Darkoth

Wargor 184
- MoT
- Heavy Armour
- BSB
- Gore Banner

Sorcerer of Chaos 170
- Level 2
- Power Familiar
- Rides the chariot

Core:
Marauders x 10 75
- Flails
- Music & Champion
- MoCU (from Crom)

Marauders x 10 75
- Flails
- Music & Champion
- MoCU (from Crom)

Marauders x 20 165
- Light armour, shields
- Full command
- MoCU (from Crom)

Chaos Hounds x 5 30

Chaos Hounds x 5 30

Chaos Hounds x 5 30

Chaos Chariot 140
- MoT

Special:
Centigors x10 225
- Shields
- Full command

Beast herd 155
- 8 Gors / 16 Ungors
- Full command

Minotaurs x 4 184
- Great Weapons
- MoCU

Rare:
Furies x 8 120


Pd: 10
Dd: 6
Scrolls: 1

I've included the sorcerer instead of the third Wargor to give me some variation on the lores of magic - he'll use fire or death. I've got ten power dice now - that should cause a dent!