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Grand_Marshal_Kazan
17-09-2005, 21:13
Has there been any fluff as to who Cypher's secret benefactor is.

The closest I could find as to who it could be is a Warhammer Fantasy Chaos god called Zuvassin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuvassin) .

Some of how he operates seems to fit the chaos that follows Cypher.

What do you think?

Rabid Bunny 666
17-09-2005, 21:19
not as of yet, but most people say it is either malal or the soul child (or star child, i can't remember)

starlight
17-09-2005, 21:21
It's Gav. :p

After all it's always his fault. :D

Seriously, I've never actually met the man, so I don't have an opinion, but he's welcome to a game if I ever meet him.

Rabid Bunny 666
17-09-2005, 21:22
who? cypher or Gav?

and does this mean that Gav is either a Chaos God, a C'tan or a Tyranid, those guys get blamed for everything

starlight
17-09-2005, 21:29
Duh, Gav. Since Cypher's imaginary I can game with him whenever I want. :p

Gav is almighty, since he likely had a hand in the creation of the Chaos Gods, C'tan and Tyranids. :p Thus the connection, Gav's at fault so his creations are equally at fault. :D

I actually feel sorry for the guy (Gav) with all the ****** who actually *believe* that he could be solely responsible for *anything* in a company the size of GW. :eyebrows:

Rabid Bunny 666
17-09-2005, 21:32
fair doos, but his army would be unbalanced and T8

Marty D
17-09-2005, 21:33
i think that maybe cypher's secret benefactor will be either the c'tan the deciever or the outsider (since they are random actions) or a chaos god.

of course it could always be a random inquisitor too

Rabid Bunny 666
17-09-2005, 21:48
thats a good point, if Cypher has to kill the emperor for his forgiveness, the C'tan can approach mars

Khaine's Messenger
17-09-2005, 22:15
Considering his purpose, it's either the Emperor/StarChild or one of the (many, many, many, many) fate-weaving/trickster deities/entities...of whom you can simply take your pick. I'm for the Emperor, myself.

Rabid Bunny 666
17-09-2005, 22:23
i made a thread on Portent, but i swear i put it on Word somewhere

Kensai X
17-09-2005, 23:02
One of the C'tans... You see once Cypher kills the Emperor and the Illumanati sacrifice the Sensei to raise the starchild, then when the Starchild becomes fused with Cypehr, he'll lead humanity into a Second Great Crusade to rid the Galaxy of Chaos, and when the finally do... and the Immaterium is split from the real world, the C'tan will attack and harvest the souls of humanity....

I'm always pretty sure about my theories...

Rabid Bunny 666
17-09-2005, 23:06
or the empyrean, that big psycic signal near mars, would stop, causing the c'tan within to be free from danger

Brusilov
18-09-2005, 03:54
C'tan don't make sense. Cypher has the protection of a power of the warp, it's the only explanation that allows him to cheat death in such a way. And while Cypher might have encountered Deceiver it was not on a friendly basis.

Incidently, the purpose of the Star Child is not to separate the warp from the material world but to balance back the warp, which means psykers will become more powerful and as such would not be good for the C'tan.

Khaine's Messenger
18-09-2005, 03:56
Cypher has the protection of a power of the warp, it's the only explanation that allows him to cheat death in such a way.

What if he just had a very perceptive, very powerful Displacer Field? :cheese:

Goblinardo
18-09-2005, 04:06
What if he just had a very perceptive, very powerful Displacer Field? :cheese:

I think he's actually [drums]--- The Last Vulture Warrior From Dimension X And His Merry Band Of Clones (TLVWFDXAHMBOC).

Yeah, that would make sense. Sort of. Ish.

Brusilov
18-09-2005, 04:48
Could be a displacer field or veil of darkness or something like that, but the real trouble is that Cypher seems to be indirectly strengthening the Imperium too much to be a pawn of the C'tan (except if you think Cypher's only purpose for the C'tan is to strengthen the Imperium as a bulwark against Chaos so the C'tan don't have to deal with it themselves).

The one thing that one should also consider is that Cypher is not protected by a single entity but is the plaything of several powerful entities, the Star Child, Tzeentch and one or several C'tan.

Warmaster_Horus
18-09-2005, 07:16
This is gonna sound way off course from what people usually think, but what if Cypher's benefactor is the Lion himself. I mean all the primarchs had prodigious psychic powers, and maybe the Lion is guiding Cypher through series of events from his comatose state back in the Rock.

Then again it seems a bit far-fetched as Cypher routinely fights against the Imperium and even appears in the company of such as Abaddon. Although one must admit that his dealings with forces of Chaos involves a lot more treachery than the ones with the Imperium.

Oh, by the way this is off topic, but how come all of the Fallen that beckon to his call are still all un-Chaos Marinified?

Rabid Bunny 666
18-09-2005, 12:28
because they believe they are doing the right thing, others turned to chaos just to survive

Grand_Marshal_Kazan
18-09-2005, 19:43
not as of yet, but most people say it is either malal or the soul child (or star child, i can't remember)

Malal had the GW copyright burned off its bum as the rights belong with John Wagner and Alan Grant.

Jaq Draco
20-09-2005, 00:52
most of the cypher stuff was written before the necrons

so best bets are

the emp

or Tzeentch for his own wierd purposes

good moneys on mr insane himself the Emp (remembers reading Inquisitor/Draco)

Wiseman
20-09-2005, 01:08
No its the nids, it has to be, he is being manipulated by the hive mind;)

Jaq Draco
20-09-2005, 01:42
dude even though the nids are blamed for everything basically

not this time around

and hey blaming everything on nids is my job

that and blaming general weirdness on nid is also my job :D

back on track, the Emp seems like the most likely candidate for cyphers benefactor

Wiseman
20-09-2005, 09:56
you know im right though JD, it is the nids/nid. nid ate some bugs and absorbed their biomater, granting him psychic abilities and he took control of cypher and is now his benefactor looking after him until finally the day comes when he can gain control of all hot spicy food restaurants in the galaxy.

Sai-Lauren
20-09-2005, 10:22
We don't know, it's one of those things that should never be revealed either.

There's little bits though, that you're supposed to think it's probably one of the following:-
The Emperor/ The Starchild
Tzeentch

Although, you could also throw in The Old Ones, the Eldar (Farseer precognition), Lion El'Johnson and/or Luther, Cypher himself, or possibly some power we've not met yet.
After all, Cypher's the ultimate wild card, so it's not inconceivable that his patron could be anything. Although C'Tan are a no-no, he'd likely still have that phase knife otherwise.

And just a thought. Considering quite a lot of the relevant fluff seems to be based on the Arthurian legends with Johnson as Arthur, taken off to Avalon at his death, and Luther as a combination of Lancelot and Mordred - it makes Cypher Bedevere - the knight charged by Arthur with returning Excalibur to the lady in the lake.

Exterminatus
20-09-2005, 12:21
Wasnt Cypher supposed to reforge the Lion Sword at the base of the emperors throne?
IIRC, if he did that the Lion would awake and lead humanity into a second Great Crusade

Rabid Bunny 666
20-09-2005, 12:23
i thought it would forgive all of the fallen

Jaq Draco
20-09-2005, 13:07
wait a min thats got me thinking

reforging the lion blade and forgive all the fallen, wouldnt the dark angels want that

or are they contant to sit around brood and be emo

Exterminatus
20-09-2005, 13:47
Thats right he would forgive all the fallen, the would be forgiven in the eyes of the Emperor and the Lion.

But there was something to do with the reforging of the sword at the base of the Emperors Golden Throne wasn't there?

vexa
20-09-2005, 15:18
wait a min thats got me thinking

reforging the lion blade and forgive all the fallen, wouldnt the dark angels want that

or are they contant to sit around brood and be emo

Propably they'd want Lion to wake up, but they just don't believe the fallen with Cypher in the front are going to do that, but that he's moving towards Terra to kill the Emperor.

Once i read a theory about Cypher. It said that he's supporting Abaddon because he want him to attack Terra, and when invading the palace of the Emperor, then Cypher would go to the throne before Abaddon strike the sword in the throne therefore killing the Emperor, but then the Starchild would "possess" Cypher leading to the rebirth of Emperor. And then he'd bring back all the primarchs he could and crush all the badguys, from imperiums point of view ofcourse, because everyone in 40k is more or less bad IMO, and lead the humanity to a new crusade to finish the one he started.

Anyway Cypher is one of the coolest character in the whole fluff and his gunslinger models not so bad either.

Brusilov
22-09-2005, 06:39
I would argue that the DA don't know what Cypher is doing, they probably think he is some Chaos worshipper up to no good like the Fallen. Even if they knew what Cypher intended, they would probably not trust his actions.

Jaq Draco
22-09-2005, 12:16
considering your vast fluff skills Brusi, im not gonna disagree with you there, and i mean that with my full respect.

back on track

yeah he did help abaddon, but only against the dark angels, because from the sounds of it, he just wanted to **** off the dark angels a bit

cypher i salute you

Wiseman
22-09-2005, 15:57
I would argue that the DA don't know what Cypher is doing, they probably think he is some Chaos worshipper up to no good like the Fallen. Even if they knew what Cypher intended, they would probably not trust his actions.
id say this has alot to do with it, the dark angels are so sceptical of the fallen, that they wont trust not a single one of them, not even cypher

EffCee
22-09-2005, 21:45
Considering what the Imperium is like I would think that it's the Emperor, trying to guide Cypher to Terra. He just keeps getting thwarted by his own minions. Egad!!

Brusilov
23-09-2005, 06:56
And why is that Jaq? You're quite welcome to disagree with my opinion, there certainly nothing wrong against it, and I certainly accept contradiction and was corrected on occasion. So why would you disagree with me?
To the DA, Cypher is the figurehead of the Fallen, he is the epitome of everything they hate about their Fallen brethren. He consorts with Chaos, he stirs the population of the Imperium against their rightful masters, he ridiculises the DA by constantly escaping their grasp... Personally hunting down Cypher would have become quite an obsession within the Deathwing, even more so than any other Fallen.
Their hatred and their desire to atone for their past crimes have, to a large extent, blinded the Dark Angels as to what the Fallen are actually up to, at least those who have not turned to Chaos and actively seek redemption.

And personally I don't think Cypher does anything to **** off anyone, his mere presence is going to increase Imperial activity tenfold, because even if the rest of the Imperium don't know who he is, they understand he is a dangerous seditionist that must be dealt with. This is IMHO the whole point of Cypher's actions, because in the end, the Imperium is better prepared for the true threat after he made a brief appearance and caused some upheaval.

DantesInferno
23-09-2005, 12:14
To the DA, Cypher is the figurehead of the Fallen, he is the epitome of everything they hate about their Fallen brethren. He consorts with Chaos, he stirs the population of the Imperium against their rightful masters, he ridiculises the DA by constantly escaping their grasp... Personally hunting down Cypher would have become quite an obsession within the Deathwing, even more so than any other Fallen.
Their hatred and their desire to atone for their past crimes have, to a large extent, blinded the Dark Angels as to what the Fallen are actually up to, at least those who have not turned to Chaos and actively seek redemption.


Well, yes. But possibly not all the Deathwing would be equally ignorant of Cypher's true agenda, nor would they necessarily all be equally consumed with hatred of him. The DA are very good at keeping info from each other, all the way up to the very highest level. I find it within the bounds of plausibility that the Grand Master (who is, after all, the only man with access to Luther in the depths of the Rock) might have an idea of what Cypher was actually up to. After all, there are ways to explain Cypher's disappearance from DA custody beyond the 'divine intervention' ones.....I find it possible that Cypher might be carrying out a last directive from either Jonson or Luther, and that the Grand Master may have access to this. Explains why the DA have come so close to capturing him many times if they're being betrayed by their own commander....

I recognise that there are many 'might's and 'possible's in this, but this theory does explain a few things about Cypher's ability to avoid capture if he's getting covert assistance at the highest level of the DA....

Jaq Draco
23-09-2005, 14:39
Simply put why i wouldnt disagree with you Brusi, is because your fluff skills are beyond reproach and the effort that you put into formulating a rather comprehensive fluff bible back in portent days was phenomonal

that is why i generally would not disagree with you, because basically you know more than me, and if i tried to disagree, id prolly be talking out of my ass.

back on track.

well from what we definately know about cypher from the fluff, he likes twisting the knife into the unforgiven, just a bit. i.e. the E.O.T short short story about him

and he is an excellent gunfighter.

i wont call for GW to advance the fluff, because that has a snowball's chance in hell of happening, but i for one, would like to see what happens

*submits writing portfolio to GW
[Mandark laughter] nbow i shall write the Cypher fluff, ha ha ha hahahaha

Guardian
25-09-2005, 12:35
What exactly can the lion sword do?

is it possible once re-forged it is the only thing that can possibly tare the link between the emperor and the golden throne?

thus making Cypher actually an assassin? of sorts?

tricked to beleave he is going to resurrect the lion when in actual fact he is simply the plaything of Tzneench???

Rabid Bunny 666
25-09-2005, 12:47
if the lion sword is re forged, it forgives the fallen of their sins

Jaq Draco
25-09-2005, 12:59
reforging the sword means just the fallen are forgiven that much i know

but what else has categorically been stated by GW in the fluff that will happen when Cypher presents the sword to the Emp