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Fangschrecken
09-12-2007, 00:44
are any marines recruited from the catachans? i would think so, but not sure.

HiveFleetEzekial
09-12-2007, 00:48
No.. Because marines don't 'recruit' per-say. They're bred to be the warriors they are, and have things implanted into them far younger than what a catachan would be at their 'prime'.

Kandarin
09-12-2007, 00:51
No.. Because marines don't 'recruit' per-say. They're bred to be the warriors they are, and have things implanted into them far younger than what a catachan would be at their 'prime'.

That doesn't forbid the Marines from taking them before their 'prime'.

If your question is whether the Marines recruit from the Catachan IG regiments, then Ezekial's answer applies. The Marines are now portrayed as recruiting entirely from children. It's a ridiculous piece of fluff for many reasons I won't go into here, but it stands.

If your question is whether the Marines ever take recruits from the planet Catachan, then the answer is probably yes. There's no Marine chapter identified in the fluff as being from the area, but Catachan has probably had its share of fleet-based chapters pass through.

Cosmocrat
09-12-2007, 00:59
The idea of a Space Marine chapter recruited from Catachan is pretty cool though.

Commander Dante
09-12-2007, 02:41
Crusading Chapters (Chapters with no homebase like the Black Templars, Blood Ravens, Imperial Fists, and Dark Angels) recruit from all kinds of Death Worlds and hive worlds and Catachan being one of the most famous death worlds i would not be suprised if some Chapters made it a point to recruit from there.

Vesica
09-12-2007, 02:48
I like the idea, would be cool if you someone ever makes them if they could incorperate some catachan-ish ideas.

Feor
09-12-2007, 04:29
Any marines recruited from Catachan are likely to have the "catachan-ish" ideas brainwashed out of them. Most marine chapters leave recruits with only the haziest memories of their previous lives after the extensive psycho-conditioning they go through. The only time chapters take on some of the ideals of their recruits are in situations where a chapter recruits almost exclusively from one particular world. Usually their homeworld.

Course, wouldn't rule out a marine with a Catachan Death Knife as a combat blade...

Geddonight
09-12-2007, 04:52
Well... it's possible, but I haven't read anything about it.

I don't recall offhand what Catachan's Imperial Tithe is--that might give some indication. But if Catachan raises its own Imperial Guard regiment, space marines tend not to draw so heavily from them (at least, that's my understanding... why no space marine chapters draw the youth from Cadia or Krieg). Of course, i don't have any page references to back this up, so get out the salt. ;)

I do recall fluff that SM chapters particularly favored death worlds and primitive societies where physical strength was more prominent than softer, advanced societies... take it as you will. If you wanted to create a space marine chapter that drew from deathworlds like Catachan, I don't think anyone would have a fit... though really, the number of children you have to recruit from any given deathworld is probably significantly smaller than a standard system world. Have fun with it.

The Hobo Hunter
09-12-2007, 07:51
Well... it's possible, but I haven't read anything about it.

I don't recall offhand what Catachan's Imperial Tithe is--that might give some indication. But if Catachan raises its own Imperial Guard regiment, space marines tend not to draw so heavily from them (at least, that's my understanding... why no space marine chapters draw the youth from Cadia or Krieg). Of course, i don't have any page references to back this up, so get out the salt. ;)

I do recall fluff that SM chapters particularly favored death worlds and primitive societies where physical strength was more prominent than softer, advanced societies... take it as you will. If you wanted to create a space marine chapter that drew from deathworlds like Catachan, I don't think anyone would have a fit... though really, the number of children you have to recruit from any given deathworld is probably significantly smaller than a standard system world. Have fun with it.

Yeah, the main reason that SM don't recruit from Cadia or Krieg is simply because they aren't tough enough. Space Marines recruit from feral worlds (techno-barbarians etc) because, in keeping with the child-recruitment fluff, the kids on feral worlds would be arm wrestling alligators and pillaging other tribes by age 10, so they've got a better opportunity to survive as a scout, and subsequently they make better space marines than their weedier neighbours from more 'civilised' worlds.

I'd think that catachans wouldn't be recruited simply because they don't like offworlders telling them what to do. I wouldn't put it against them to argue with a space marine. But then again, they send soldiers off as IG regiments, so I suppose they wouldn't object to a few space marines plucking some of them from their jungle.

I say go for it. One of my friends made scouts out of tac marines and catachans. so it's definitely possible. Just because DA or DA or UltraSmurfs dont take 'chans, it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Imperialis_Dominatus
09-12-2007, 11:24
I'd say they do. Catachan's the worst (best? :D) death world in the galaxy. It's a hellhole. Of course there are some excellent specimens there for the Marines.

And as far as tithes go: the world of Catachan has nothing to offer the Imperium save for its regiments of men. I'd say it must have a high rate of recruitment into the Guard.

And, by the way, how do you guys envision a Chapter recruiting from a world? I don't think it'd be 'sign up at the tree between the death-springer-plant and the latrine.' Have you ever read Kaayvan Shrike's backstory? That's how I imagine a lot of Marines are recruited actually. Or in contests of strength and combat.

The Guy
09-12-2007, 12:07
catachan marines = best. scouts. ever!
I don't think they'd like the idea of brightly coloured armour though.

El Presedente
09-12-2007, 21:45
actually the main character in the Damnation Crusade comic is at least in his late teens when he's recruited, sorry for being a bit off topic.

The Guy
09-12-2007, 21:47
actually the main character in the Damnation Crusade comic is at least in his late teens when he's recruited, sorry for being a bit off topic.

I don't like the whole "SM can only be taken from youth" It seems to...Yoda...
*Bad Yoda impression*
"Mmph too old he is. Train him we cannot"

DarthBinky
09-12-2007, 22:12
As I recall, it's not so much children who get taken into Marine chapters, it's adolescents. For example, the Blood Angels take from the people of Baal Secundus, and the recruitment process involved something like a teenager has to undertake a journey to prove his manhood by crossing some radiated desert and getting to the spot where Sanguinius landed many millennia ago, thereby officially becoming an adult. I also vaguely recall that the Wolves do something similar where the guy has to kill a giant Fenrisian wolf barehanded.

So we're talking more like late teens, like 16-18ish- they're old enough to show whatever potential they might have, but young enough that they shouldn't have too much trouble surviving/adapting to the genetic modifications they get.

Unless, of course, that bit of the background has changed since the Angels of Death Codex. Or maybe that was just a Blood Angels/Space Wolves thing- maybe most other chapters are different.

Clockwork-Knight
09-12-2007, 22:29
It has to be around 12-14 for the very first implants, as can be read by the implant restrictions on the very GW-page about Space Marines. 16-18 is already too old.

Killgore
09-12-2007, 23:30
different chapters with different implantation rituals, mabey some can acsept applicants that are at a latter age of youth?

i see no reason why catachans couldnt become spacemarines, once every 100 years a crusade fleet may recruit a few or there may even be a secret spacemarine chapter keep/ fortress hidden away on catachan that only the bravest and tougthest locals can find

Clockwork-Knight
09-12-2007, 23:44
Here's the site with the table that dictates at which age every organ can be implanted at youngest and when at least: http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/spacemarines/extras/creationofamarine/2.htm

Feor
10-12-2007, 00:05
Just for referance: Older youths (the 16-18 year olds mentioned above) can be given the geneseed, but the process becomes exponentially more difficult and dangerous the older the aspirant is, such that 12-14 is the oldest an applicant can be and still be relatively certain he won't mutate horribly and die during the next few years. In years past it could be done safely for anyone who wasn't finished puberty, and pre-heresy it could even be done for people who had finished puberty, though they wouldn't be quite as forimidable as a "proper" marine. (See Luther & company in Descent of Angels) since a few implants couldn't be done and they wouldn't be able to grow to quite the stature of a true Astartes.

DarthBinky
10-12-2007, 00:40
It has to be around 12-14 for the very first implants, as can be read by the implant restrictions on the very GW-page about Space Marines. 16-18 is already too old.
Ok so then the Blood Angels are different. They also go through some sort of ritual where they are entombed in a coffin and are pumped full of Sanguinius' blood- that's what the Red Grail was for (it held said blood after Sanguinius died and during rituals). That's not mentioned on that page either, which is apparently just the general procedure used by most chapters- which means it's not unreasonable to think that every now and then there's another chapter that also does it differently.

edit: Just checked the newest BA Codex, and they now say that the aspirants have to drink the blood of the Sang. Priests to activate the geneseed, rather than the coffin thing. But it's still something different in the procedure.

pookie
10-12-2007, 09:21
Ok so then the Blood Angels are different. They also go through some sort of ritual where they are entombed in a coffin and are pumped full of Sanguinius' blood- that's what the Red Grail was for (it held said blood after Sanguinius died and during rituals). That's not mentioned on that page either, which is apparently just the general procedure used by most chapters- which means it's not unreasonable to think that every now and then there's another chapter that also does it differently.

edit: Just checked the newest BA Codex, and they now say that the aspirants have to drink the blood of the Sang. Priests to activate the geneseed, rather than the coffin thing. But it's still something different in the procedure.

i think the coffin thing is still part of the process, just the drinking of the blood triggers the Organs.

the Coffin also changes there appearance, from degen mutant to super human marine beings.

Nazguire
10-12-2007, 10:29
Yeah, the main reason that SM don't recruit from Cadia or Krieg is simply because they aren't tough enough. Space Marines recruit from feral worlds (techno-barbarians etc) because, in keeping with the child-recruitment fluff, the kids on feral worlds would be arm wrestling alligators and pillaging other tribes by age 10, so they've got a better opportunity to survive as a scout, and subsequently they make better space marines than their weedier neighbours from more 'civilised' worlds.

I'd think that catachans wouldn't be recruited simply because they don't like offworlders telling them what to do. I wouldn't put it against them to argue with a space marine. But then again, they send soldiers off as IG regiments, so I suppose they wouldn't object to a few space marines plucking some of them from their jungle.

I say go for it. One of my friends made scouts out of tac marines and catachans. so it's definitely possible. Just because DA or DA or UltraSmurfs dont take 'chans, it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

The idea that the men from Cadia and Krieg (especially Cadia and Krieg) aren't tough enough is laughable. These guys are practically raised in a uniform, will all have seen a lifetime of constant front line service (particularly 'now') and drilled from the get go of military life.

I suspect the reason that the Marines don't recruit from there isn't so much 'tough' factor (you have to be pretty tough to be in the Whiteshields and fight Chaos at the age of 14 without dying of shock) is because those worlds

a) need every capable man they can (for different reasons: Cadia; for their very survival, Krieg: they're very devoted to 'dying to prove their absolution'
b) are exempt from the Astartes Tithe or whatever you want to call the recruitment process.

The Hobo Hunter
11-12-2007, 05:05
The idea that the men from Cadia and Krieg (especially Cadia and Krieg) aren't tough enough is laughable. These guys are practically raised in a uniform, will all have seen a lifetime of constant front line service (particularly 'now') and drilled from the get go of military life.

I suspect the reason that the Marines don't recruit from there isn't so much 'tough' factor (you have to be pretty tough to be in the Whiteshields and fight Chaos at the age of 14 without dying of shock) is because those worlds

a) need every capable man they can (for different reasons: Cadia; for their very survival, Krieg: they're very devoted to 'dying to prove their absolution'
b) are exempt from the Astartes Tithe or whatever you want to call the recruitment process.

While Krieg and Cadia soldiers are 'tough', for the reasons you mentioned, when compared to a tribe of feral warriors from planet Hulkasmash, for example, I don't think Krieg or Cadian soldiers stand close. Cadians and Krieg soldiers may have had the military life drilled into them from childhood, but I still think most feral worlds have a tougher, stronger population, due to being wandering nomads fighting off other tribesmen from an early age.

A cadian joins the whiteshields in their teens, a feral tribesman may have seen a life of war and scavenging since they were born, and given the whole child-recruitment space marines seem to utilise, it would seem that a cadian child would still be physically weaker than a child from a feral world.

It doesn't matter how well you fight chaos at age 14, the marines want you earlier than that.

BrainFireBob
11-12-2007, 05:54
If that were true, the Ultras wouldn't recruit how they do. Their worlds are extremely civilized.

No, it in all probability has to do with either an exemption, those worlds being too important for the High Lords to allow them to fall under quasi-independent Marine rulership, or the situations in each case- Cadia should be subject to high levels of Chaos incursion and mutation, Krieg would also have mutation problems. Catachan doesn't have anywhere you could establish a Chapter-Keep or Fortress-Monastery, the plant life is too aggressive.

Drakon
11-12-2007, 06:10
mate just do it if you want to make catachen marines then do it and when you do post some pics.

Im looking at making a catachen army and then a custom marine army but it would have been cool to merge them as one. I wonder if you could make a hybrid that consists of the catachen and marines then you could choose what is best out of both, leman russ's and basilisks with terminators etc sounds tempting but you had the idea first.

Nazguire
11-12-2007, 10:17
While Krieg and Cadia soldiers are 'tough', for the reasons you mentioned, when compared to a tribe of feral warriors from planet Hulkasmash, for example, I don't think Krieg or Cadian soldiers stand close. Cadians and Krieg soldiers may have had the military life drilled into them from childhood, but I still think most feral worlds have a tougher, stronger population, due to being wandering nomads fighting off other tribesmen from an early age.

A cadian joins the whiteshields in their teens, a feral tribesman may have seen a life of war and scavenging since they were born, and given the whole child-recruitment space marines seem to utilise, it would seem that a cadian child would still be physically weaker than a child from a feral world.

It doesn't matter how well you fight chaos at age 14, the marines want you earlier than that.

A Cadian doesn't begin to see warfare during his/her stay in the Whiteshields. While they may not be participating in it as an active combatant, the fact that Cadia and its surrounding systems are under constant attack from Chaos raiders would do more then its fair share to 'harden the **** up' kids on Cadia from an early age. Just because they aren't hunting tigers with a twig at the age of three doesn't mean that a good proportion of them wouldn't make Marine material.

The same would go for the Krieg. In order to get the zeal and bravery of the Death Korps, you need extensive re-education (read: brain-washing) which would happen at a young age, bolstered by the depressing, disgusting and trying times of the Krieg homeworld (go ahead, try and tell me that a world dedicated to dying as bravely as possible in the most hellacious of battlefields wouldn't be all of the above)

Clockwork-Knight
11-12-2007, 12:56
The Kriegs are however rumored to use forbidden procreation techniques, like 'Vitae-wombs'...

VanHel
11-12-2007, 18:56
I think a Catachan marine is quite possibly the single most scariest thing I've heard about on these boards in awhile.

Clockwork-Knight
11-12-2007, 19:14
Why should it? The sod is going to be taken away at a young age, and then be brain-washed, surgically modified and made to worship some long-dead gene-donor instead of his real parents, so no useful traits of any Catachan is going to stay with him. He'll just be a normal Space Marine, with some pig-latin-like gothic name, and that's it.

Imperialis_Dominatus
12-12-2007, 01:54
I think a Catachan marine is quite possibly the single most scariest thing I've heard about on these boards in awhile.

Haven't you seen the Rending Pony? Or Failhorse, as it's come to be known?

Nazguire
12-12-2007, 02:51
The Kriegs are however rumored to use forbidden procreation techniques, like 'Vitae-wombs'...

I had a big brainstorming sesh with some guys here not long ago about what the Vitae-wombs possibly were. A bit off-topic but I came to the conclusion that it was a massive multi-wombed servitor, the most grotesque servitor you can devise that was constantly being impregnated and in labour.

And there were hundreds of them, producing thousands at a time.

Clockwork-Knight
12-12-2007, 03:08
Anything that screams perversion to me is totally cool for the Imperium. I guess it's something 'Dune'-like, like those Axotl-tanks, where they turn women into whatever strange womb-things they are to mass-spawn gholas...

Witchfire
12-12-2007, 14:53
i would not be surprised if many guard regiments ''hire'' large numbers of civilian women to entertain the troops and produce baby nutcase kreig soldier men

Griffty
17-12-2007, 18:59
There are resons why you dont hear of marines recruiting from famous imp worlds like cadia, krieg and catachan and that is it confuses the fluff. If you are born on any of these worlds then the greatest thing you can achieve is to serve in their IG regiments - if you can do one better and become a marine it somewhat tarnishes the rep of the IG regiments.
Doesnt stop you going for it though - its just GW keeping the fluff focussed.
So long as your marines are a crusading or traveling chapter then I say go for it, could lead to some good home grown background

OT -Not all marines recruit from feral/savage cultures - as BrainFireBob states the ultramarines recruit from the most civilised section of imperial space - but they still do expect martial prowess. The youth of Qunitarn, Tarentus and Masali compete in brutal games to see who is sent to the ultra's.
On the other hand the white scars recruit from the feral tribesmen of mundus planus instead of the more civilised people who live in cities on the planet.

shutupSHUTUP!!!
17-12-2007, 19:07
I always assumed that marine chapters would stay away from important Imperial Guard tithe worlds. Surely the Imperium does not want a marine chapter wasting a companies worth of Catachans just to find a small handful of recruits.

The great thing about feral worlds is that they are probably too backwards to make good guardsmen anyway (not to say they aren't recruited).