PDA

View Full Version : a thought on Krork



Rabid Bunny 666
17-09-2005, 23:39
the Krork was a race created by the Old ones, and most people presume they evolved/degenerated into Orks, but is there actually any proof of this?

DantesInferno
17-09-2005, 23:46
Proof? The strongest evidence that I can think of (besides the obvious Ork - Krork name similarities and strong resemblences between the old Brain Boyz background and the Old Ones) is this, from the Deceiver:


"Knowledge, mostly. I wanted to know how the galaxy had fared, who was left after the plague. You can't imagine my surprise on finding your kind and the Krork scattered everywhere. I've seen you humans trying to forge an empire in the name of a corpse. I have seen your churches to the machine. Racially, your fear and superstition are most gratifying. You make excellent subjects."

Considering humanity and the Orks are by far the most populous races in the galaxy in M40, it seems pretty clear that the Krork are indeed the Orks we know.

Instigation
18-09-2005, 00:13
Yes, i agree with Dante even though personally i dont like it. Old ones seem to have created everything in 40k given what the new fluff seems to be saying.

I wonder though, does the ol' fluff about orks also been very populous in other galaxies still holds true?

Vosk
18-09-2005, 00:20
[QUOTE=Instigation]Yes, i agree with Dante even though personally i dont like it. Old ones seem to have created everything in 40k given what the new fluff seems to be saying.QUOTE]

Is it though? They didn't create the Dark Eldar, the Tau, the Kroot, Space Marines, Vespids, Tyranids, Catachan Devils or the colour blue. People get way too hung up on the several million year old back story of the Orks, Eldar and so on that doesn't really mean much to them in M40 because these races have had 65 million years to take themselves in their own directions. But I digress...

Rabid Bunny 666
18-09-2005, 00:23
but DE are in effect, eldar and space marines are humans to all intents and purposes

DantesInferno
18-09-2005, 00:33
And as far as I know, the Old Ones didn't directly create humanity as we are now either. 60 million years ago we were still little rat-mammal things. Wouldn't have been much use in the War in Heaven like that, would we?

Although, the C'tan did implant the Pariah gene in these little mammalian creatures of an otherwise insignificant watery planet, so somebody must have noticed our potential. Unless they implanted the Pariah gene in just about all evolving life in the galaxy 60 million years ago, just in case.....

Rabid Bunny 666
18-09-2005, 00:39
good point, no recordings of other similar aged races, and the orks are kinda psycic

DantesInferno
18-09-2005, 00:49
Well, yeah he is, but in this case he's having a lot of fun and everything else he says is true. So I don't see any particular reason to doubt it when he says "You can't imagine my surprise on finding your kind and the Krork scattered everywhere"

Here's the full bit of dialogue:


"What were you seeking?" whispered Lakius. The thing's ferocious smile was spread almost ear to ear.

"Knowledge, mostly. I wanted to know how the galaxy had fared, who was left after the plague. You can't imagine my surprise on finding your kind and the Krork scattered everywhere. I've seen you humans trying to forge an empire in the name of a corpse. I have seen your churches to the machine. Racially, your fear and superstition are most gratifying. You make excellent subjects."

"You are Necrontyr then. You went into stasis to escape a disease."

"No, your language is inefficient. The plague was not a disease, and it couldn't harm us, but..." The thing tilted its head back as if dreaming of long lost times. "It was killing everything else." It looked back at Lakius. "And no, I am not a Necron. You mistake the slave for the master. You'll understand better when I take you back inside."

Rabid Bunny 666
18-09-2005, 01:06
considering at the time of the "plague" humans were just starting the route of evolution and if the Krork, who match the description in the necron codex, were different to the c'tan era ones, which wouldn't surprise me

Khaine's Messenger
18-09-2005, 03:04
Even supposing that Orks exhibit some incredible resistance to mutation, genetic drift, and all other selection pressures, supposing 40k Orks to be the same as prehistoric Krork is really pushing it.

Same for the Eldar, Jokaero, or the "regressed" Slanni...it stretches Suspension of Disbelief quite far (as does the seeding of the "pariah gene" and pretending that everything is "going to plan! muahahaha! *rubs hands together*"), does it not? :angel:

Drasanil
18-09-2005, 03:42
Maybe the Old Ones engineered the eldar, krorks, and Jokaero, so that they wouldn't naturaly evolve?

Khaine's Messenger
18-09-2005, 04:09
Sure, suspension of disbelief is one thing. Narrative laziness is another. Saying its "Just like 40k but 65m years earlier" really reduces the magnificent scope of the ficton. You have an entire galaxy and 65 million years to play with, and the best you can do is "ork is krork!". Weak.

Oh, I agree completely that it's narrative laziness (&etc.). I'm just pointing out that other races have persisted for that long and have avoided such changes as you said would make it unlikely for the Krork to become the Orks. It is rather dastardly and foolish...but nevertheless....

Instigation
18-09-2005, 05:20
Nurglitchs post

This is exactly what my problem is with alot of the necron fluff. It basically 65million years of potentially interesting plot all tied in to roughly one, not particularly creative War in the Heaven - heck even chaos which is supposed to be "The Evil" of 40k - was "created" by this event :rolleyes:

But in the case of the orks, i don't think they evolve like things on earth here evolve. Rather, given their method of reproduction i would almost go as far as to say that they are like clones, only mutating after they are born in respect to whatever world/ecosystem that they are born into. So perhaps they really would not have changed all that much in 65 million years physically.

He Who Laughs
18-09-2005, 11:37
The other clue, in the Nightbringers fluff - is that the "off all the young races, only the Krork escaped the Nightbringers boon, their race being spared the fear of death".

Orks aren't afraid to die - this is a glaring fact in all their fluff. Case closed :rolleyes:

But I too think that the Krork - Ork link is a bit silly though, they could've come up with a better pre-name.

athamas
18-09-2005, 14:34
on the evolution front...


Crocks... [as in the big scaly things in swamps] have hardly changed in many many years...

Why? because they have no need to evolve.. thus they dont!

dumbuket
19-09-2005, 03:22
Yeah, who says the Krork "devolved" into the orks...

couldn't they just be now as they always were?

I still think the "old ones were behind everything" nonsense is a great big load

Sir_Lunchalot
19-09-2005, 05:46
Having read the necron codex, yes, the krork are what later became the orks. It's actually quite possible that the orks didn't evolve. My theory is that sentient species can't evolve unless it's a choice made by the species - if a new mutation pops up, it could very likely be seen as a sign of evil, or in an ork's case, unorkiness. The unfortunate mutant is killed, and the genepool cleaned up. The only mutations that'll get into a sentient race's genepool are the ones that are allowed to. :chrome:

Alco Engineer
19-09-2005, 06:04
Having read the necron codex, yes, the krork are what later became the orks. It's actually quite possible that the orks didn't evolve. My theory is that sentient species can't evolve unless it's a choice made by the species - if a new mutation pops up, it could very likely be seen as a sign of evil, or in an ork's case, unorkiness. The unfortunate mutant is killed, and the genepool cleaned up. The only mutations that'll get into a sentient race's genepool are the ones that are allowed to. :chrome:

In that case getting more intellegent is also out of the question. Getting bigger is definately more orky. I recall the Armageddon codex (or some of its related fluff) stated that Orks are getting bigger and that the 3rd war they were bigger than in the 2nd.

Rabid Bunny 666
19-09-2005, 07:57
Orks grow larger when near other orks and after combat experience

Barbarossa
19-09-2005, 09:12
It would be reasonable for the Old Ones to create the (Kr)Orks with an inbuilt evolution block. If you are about to create a race of warriors that can adapt to live in every climate, fight every foe, develop military tech out of nothing and spreads like cancer on every planet it reaches - you don't want it to evolve out of your control, do you?

Wiseman
19-09-2005, 13:38
thats true barbarossa, id say that would have alot to do with it, they are powerful enough as is, if they evolved anymore, well they would rule the galaxy no problem.

Rabid Bunny 666
19-09-2005, 21:10
or they would evolve a feature that negated one of their built in boons