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Commissar Bob
11-12-2007, 05:28
Hi all,

I'm not sure whether this is the right place for this or not, but anyhow.

The sample extract for Legion, the next book in the HH series is now up on the black library website.
Here's a link (or just the address as I'm not sure how posting a link works).

http://blacklibrary.com/product.asp?prod=60100181060&type=Book

Interesting first couple of pages, but I'll let others share their opinion while I finish reading it.

Commissar Bob

The Judge
11-12-2007, 07:04
I loved it. Some difficult new concepts, but that's Abnett's style.

The Marines were everything and more Alpha Legion should be... and a lot nobler than I imagined. I am thoroughly impressed so fa.

Griffin
11-12-2007, 09:12
Wow - Alpharius is awesomely done - I love the bit at the end with them all being Alpharius.

Brother Loki
11-12-2007, 11:07
The only thing wrong with this is that it's not out till march - given that Abnett had finished it by august. Its the most anticipated book of the series for me.

Death Before Dishonour
11-12-2007, 11:55
cool can't wait for this, shame its still a ways off

;)

Captain Stern
11-12-2007, 12:59
Wow... that was nice. Makes me wish all the more that he'd written the others too (I know, I know, I sound like a broken record).

So was the 'specialist' the primarch Alpharius or what?

different13
11-12-2007, 13:11
Looks good so far, though "fug"... not sure what to make of that.
I mean, is it funny, or just kinda sad?

Liking how Abnett's portraying the regular troopers so far, and absolutely amazed that the "Specialist" was less than seven-and-a-half feet tall (as everyone knows, Dan has a thing for exaggerating lengths and heights..)

Ah, as soon as I say that I find falxes longer than a space marine. Ah well, it was good while it lasted..

But yes, looks good so far.

Killgore
11-12-2007, 13:37
hmm, i can definatly say im looking forward to this book now :)

it will be nice to read more about the imperial army and their involvement with the legions

Sister_Sin
11-12-2007, 13:39
That rocked! I've been looking forward to it anyway, but even moreso now. :)

Sister Sin

Commander Dante
11-12-2007, 15:12
pretty cool

Chaplain Dionitas
11-12-2007, 15:56
Pretty good, pretty good. That last line was awesome

BlackLegion
11-12-2007, 17:01
Cool. The Astartes could have said "We are Legion" and it would have the same meaning :D

Luthien
11-12-2007, 17:19
when he wants to, abnett can really pull out a cracker, can't wait for this now

Captain Stern
11-12-2007, 17:21
How do you pronounce Alpharius?

Al-pha-ree-us with an emphasis on the 'ree'?

VanHel
11-12-2007, 17:53
That. Was. AWESOME.

Eetion
11-12-2007, 17:58
Im lookign forward to it, but it lacked a little description. I wasnt sure if they were fighting humans, or xenos or what.
But looks promising.

Daemonslave
11-12-2007, 18:10
How do you pronounce Alpharius?

Al-pha-ree-us with an emphasis on the 'ree'?

I've always pronounced it;

Alf - fair - eee - us

Not too sure, though.

Norminator
11-12-2007, 18:32
That was great - Abnett is my favourite BL author, but that struck me as better than usual even for him. I'm eagerly anticipating the release of this - I hope they put it forward like they've done with some of the others :D

Fulgrim's Gimp
11-12-2007, 20:09
Indeed it is a good extract. Let's hope some of the other things mentioned before as possibly being revealed are in it. Also did anyone think it weird that the specialist referred to Chaos by name ?

Commander Dante
11-12-2007, 20:20
that is why i think that "speacialist" was the real alpharius as only a primarch would have knowledge of it.

Fulgrim's Gimp
11-12-2007, 20:29
I didn't think even they referred to it as Chaos,yet.

Rockerfella
11-12-2007, 20:31
Fulgrim didn't have knowledge of Chaos. He was as dumbstruck as the rest, if I remember correctly.

DantesInferno
11-12-2007, 20:42
"I'm Alpharius!"
"I'm Alpharius!"
"I'm Spartac......I mean, I'm Alpharius!"

On topic, it's a very interesting look at the Imperial Army in a lot more detail than we've previously had. And some nice tidbits about the Emperor's Unification Wars on Terra: it certainly seems that they were a whole lot more violent and ruthless than has been previously indicated.

Norminator
11-12-2007, 20:44
"I'm Alpharius!"
"I'm Alpharius!"
"I'm Spartac......I mean, I'm Alpharius!"

Sigged :D

(ten character limit)

Belisarius
11-12-2007, 22:16
I don't find it hard to believe that AL would have knowledge of chaos before other legions, their use of spies and such would have long alerted them. Plus it raises questions of wether the Emperor intended them to be a type of Inquisition/grey knight forerunners. The ending rocked. We are one. Am really looking forward to this book now as it reveals a lot but leaves even more questions and mysteries. Fantastic job so far by Dan.

Nazguire
11-12-2007, 23:44
That was good. I wonder if we'll be guessing throughout the whole book who is actually Alpharius? That'd be cool to find out that the Primarch we thought was the Primarch was really a 'normal' Astartes and some other side character was actually Alpharius.

But that wouldnt be possible seeing as a Primarch is a hell of a lot bigger then the Astartes.

2000th post....again:eyebrows:

Icarus
12-12-2007, 00:12
Hmmm looks promising, although my eyes did glaze over the first half as I often do with Abnett. When he's not describing an action scene he gets a bit boring. Second part was good though, has potential.

I just want to read it to find out lore titbits about my favourite Chaos guys ;)

Freak Ona Leash
12-12-2007, 00:19
The Alpha Legionnaires all having the same name is awesome. What better way to make sure you are mysterious if you all look the same (to outsiders at least. I get the feeling the Alpha Legion might never reveal their faces ot aynone who is not a Legionnaire) and have the same name.

I can't wait for this book.

Nazguire
12-12-2007, 00:38
I get the feeling the Alpha Legion might never reveal their faces ot aynone who is not a Legionnaire) and have the same name.



I got that feeling as well, particularly when the Army guy asked for his name and to see his face.

Would completely ensure the "I'm Alpharius'' routine would work to all outsiders if none can distinguish between the normal Astartes and the Primarch (considering very few would actually see a Primarch, let alone get close and talk to one)

Icarus
12-12-2007, 02:11
Would completely ensure the "I'm Alpharius'' routine would work to all outsiders if none can distinguish between the normal Astartes and the Primarch (considering very few would actually see a Primarch, let alone get close and talk to one)

Certainly is a point for the "Alpharius aint dead theory" - my personal favourite conspiracy theory ;)

des04
12-12-2007, 02:18
why do they keep coming out with new imperium units and with jacked up codexes?

des04
12-12-2007, 02:20
so i started playing when i was 7, and my brother showed me how. I still have the old rulebook that has the picture of the black templar army on the front, similar to the old space marine codex. My question is why do they keep coming out with new rules and races, what was wrong with the old ones?

Shortseer
12-12-2007, 02:26
so i started playing when i was 7, and my brother showed me how. I still have the old rulebook that has the picture of the black templar army on the front, similar to the old space marine codex. My question is why do they keep coming out with new rules and races, what was wrong with the old ones?


Wrong place for that question, completely and utterly off topic. But, as a bit of an answer, its called progress, profit and game balance

Nazguire
12-12-2007, 02:48
Certainly is a point for the "Alpharius aint dead theory" - my personal favourite conspiracy theory ;)

I like the theory too, but I prefer him dead as a doormouse just because he proved he was right to Guiliman. Course, I don't mind that bit of mystery as to whether he truly is dead or not, just for kicks and giggles.;)

Eldanar
12-12-2007, 03:10
des04, I think you might be a little off topic here. The OP is discussing one of the pulp fiction background science fiction books that GW's publishing wing, Black Library, puts out regularly. Not an addition to the "official" 40K background.

Try to not go too far afield.

Warseer Inquisition

The Warmaster
12-12-2007, 03:41
Great, another book for me to wait for. Thanks a lot, Abnett, for writing great stuff and making me want to buy it.

Can't wait to get my hands on this book. It'd be nice to get some insight into the Alpha Legion's background and mannerisms, especially since they've never seemed to be much more than a footnote in the 40K mythos at large (due to their love of secrecy and the like).

Also, we don't know exactly what part of the Crusade/Heresy this particular extract is set in (although I'm thinking around, or just after the Dropsite Massacre), so the mention of Chaos is a bit of a spot for confusion right now. Of course, if the Alpha Legion have already sided with Horus, then they would probably have picked up some knowledge of Chaos along the way. And, given their secretive ways, I wouldn't be surprised if they found out about Chaos before the other Legions (excluding the Word Bearers here, since we know about what they get up to).


How do you pronounce Alpharius?

Al-pha-ree-us with an emphasis on the 'ree'?

Even though it sounds a bit odd, I've always pronounced it with the same "ar" sound as in "Harry". Of course, I'm not sure of how it's actually pronounced. Maybe Abnett could shed some light on it if he's interviewed about Legion?

- N.

Belisarius
12-12-2007, 04:00
The book is supposedly to be set about 3-5 years before the Istvann massacres. Gotta say am really liking what I'm reading so far. As an AL player i really enjoy how they are portraying the legion. Especially as how they way Abnett is writing it, for every question he answers he leaves 2-3 questions which really makes the Alpha Legion even more mysterious. Also all the stuff on the unification wars is great. Part of Horus Rising that I found most intriguing was the Chronicles of Ursh and the Emperor's Rise. The ranking system is odd to me though and part of it struck me as odd for some reason....Then I looked again at the Apocalypse book. In it it mentions ranks such as hetman and the like for imp guard regiments and the like on the Imperial guard page in it. Also on the chaos page it mentions the secretly controlled Alpha Legion force that it's commander answers only to the high command of his legion suggesting that Alpha Legion DID NOT GO EMO AND BREAK INTO CRAP WARBANDS! Makes me wonder if some of them had read early transcripts and outlines of Legion before they wrote up these sections...

Sikkukkut
12-12-2007, 05:33
How do you pronounce Alpharius?

Al-pha-ree-us with an emphasis on the 'ree'?

For me: al-FAH-ree-uss.

Captain Stern
12-12-2007, 13:16
For me: al-FAH-ree-uss.

Sorry, what I meant was: Alpha-ree-uss, with the emphasis on the 'ree'. It's the coolest sounding pronunciation in my opinion :angel:

Noserenda
12-12-2007, 16:07
Also on the chaos page it mentions the secretly controlled Alpha Legion force that it's commander answers only to the high command of his legion suggesting that Alpha Legion DID NOT GO EMO AND BREAK INTO CRAP WARBANDS! Makes me wonder if some of them had read early transcripts and outlines of Legion before they wrote up these sections...

Nah i think thats always been the case, despite pepoles inference, several of the Legions still operate largely as a single organisation. Especially the Alpha Legion who act with uncanny coordination.

Londinium
13-12-2007, 16:08
Indeed, the 'specialist' has to be Alpharius, common Imperial troops in the 41st millenium have little knowledge of Chaos, let alone anyone during the Great Crusade outside of the Emperor and his cadre. And I'll be damned if he isn't a bad ass, cruel and calculating but also he doesn't seem to come with the arrogance that some of the other Primarchs have shown.

Am I the only one that got a Starship Troopers movie feel from the description of the Imperial Army messing around and the planet they were on ?

This whole we're all Alpharius concept, isn't that great for communication within a legion though, I'd assume it's more a shared name designating them as part of the legion, like Roman gens, i.e one marine could be called Arturius Julius Alpharius, another Marneus Marcus Alpharius etc etc, combining their original names with the Alpharius designation.

The fact that this book is set 4-5 years before Isstvan, and considering the Alpha Legion have already been found and are operating as part of the Crusade would also indicate that Alpharius was found much before what is suggested in the IA's, where it's indicated that his discovery was a very short period before the Heresy.

Anyways this has got me really interested in a book I was previously going to pass up on, due to Alpharius' portrayal in the IA's as a whiney ******.

Brother Loki
13-12-2007, 16:51
@Eldanar - I'd be willing to bet Des04 posted in this thread by mistake, and meant to start a new one in 40k general - or maybe the database weirdness that has plagued the board today is responsible.

The Horus Heresy books certainly ARE canon and part of the official background. Each one is signed off by Alan Merritt before publication. He's the guy in overall charge of GW's IP and what is and isn't canon.

@Londinium - I think you may be on to something with the naming. I would suspect that they always use Alpharius to non-legionnaires, but within the legion use their own names. At the Gen-con Q&A Dan suggested that Alpharius might not be the primarch's real name, simply a codename.

I don't think the specialist is necessarily the primarch himself. Unlike most primarchs Alpharius' doctrine of unit independence and multiple redundancy would pretty much require him to disseminate intelligence throughout the legion in case he was killed - so I think it's quite plausible that ordinary legionnaires would know about chaos. However, he certainly could be the primarch, although he doesn't seem tall enough.

Alpharius' stature is a bit of an issue with his secrecy, and the conspiracy theories around his death or survival. Primarchs are bigger than other Astartes, so its hard to believe Gulliman killed the wrong one. However, since he's in stasis and no-one can ask him, maybe we'll never know.

ryng_sting
13-12-2007, 16:59
Don't see how it meddles with the time he was found. He's still the last to be found whichever way you cut it.

Supremearchmarshal
13-12-2007, 16:59
Alpharius' stature is a bit of an issue with his secrecy, and the conspiracy theories around his death or survival. Primarchs are bigger than other Astartes, so its hard to believe Gulliman killed the wrong one. However, since he's in stasis and no-one can ask him, maybe we'll never know.

Indeed only Guilliman knows if he killed the right one - the Primarchs, are telepathically bonded, so he'd instantly recognize an impostor. However, the account comes from an ordinary marine, so anything's possible.

Londinium
13-12-2007, 17:52
Don't see how it meddles with the time he was found. He's still the last to be found whichever way you cut it.

I wasn't suggesting that he wasn't the last one found, merely that he was found a good degree earlier than the IA's suggested, which basically suggested that Horus found him, sent him to meet the Emperor (who had returned to Terra, meaning this is after Ullanor, returning to terra before finding the 20th Primarch is odd mind), Alpharius campaigned for a brief period in extensive contact with Horus, and then the Heresy kicked off.

The timing of the book and the fact the Alpha Legion are well known amongst the Imperial Army signifies a longer time span.

fracas
13-12-2007, 18:26
if the "specialist" was indeed Alpharius, i find it even more fascinating that he converse with humans with a certain amount of consideration and respect that has thus far been lacking in the other Primarchs, who tended to talk down to all.

Commander Dante
13-12-2007, 18:36
well alpharius was probaly not reated as a war god for the past 200 some odd years like the other primarchs had been.

DantesInferno
13-12-2007, 21:05
I wasn't suggesting that he wasn't the last one found, merely that he was found a good degree earlier than the IA's suggested, which basically suggested that Horus found him, sent him to meet the Emperor (who had returned to Terra, meaning this is after Ullanor, returning to terra before finding the 20th Primarch is odd mind), Alpharius campaigned for a brief period in extensive contact with Horus, and then the Heresy kicked off.

The timing of the book and the fact the Alpha Legion are well known amongst the Imperial Army signifies a longer time span.

The Great Crusade lasted a good few hundred years. Even if Alpharius is found, say, 30 years before Istvaan, that gives ample time for him to cultivate a reputation amongst the Imperial Army (especially among units serving near where the Alpha Legion is operating). But he's still only been around for 10% of the Great Crusade.


if the "specialist" was indeed Alpharius, i find it even more fascinating that he converse with humans with a certain amount of consideration and respect that has thus far been lacking in the other Primarchs, who tended to talk down to all.

It would be entirely in keeping with the Alpha Legion ethos, which was all about respect for a person's merit, regardless of other factors. Look at the way Alpharius got so angry at Guilliman for ignoring his actual abilities and pointing to their respective records.

Burnthem
13-12-2007, 21:36
Dont take the whole 'We are all Alpharius' as literally as it looks, it may simply be a kind of motto, or a saying to impress any imperial army soldiers that happen to ask, i really dont think that all the Marines in the legion are called either Alpharius or a variant of that name :D

Anyway, i really liked that, Dan Abnett once again pulls it out of the bag, and after the shambles that was Descent Of Angels it couldnt have come soon enough! Here's hoping the rest of the book is to the same standard...

Belisarius
13-12-2007, 21:58
personally i don't think the specialist was Alpharius. And it is my belief that the Alpha legion had thier own names among themselves that they never showed to outsiders. Personally after rereading the excerpt what i find interesting is the two truths the specialists speaks and the first being "The Emperor Protects" unless I'm mistaken that's from the lecto diviniticus and that right there raises a lot of questions by itself.

Commander Dante
13-12-2007, 22:19
ro row shaggy! maybe he did not mean it religiously? im pretty sure the concept of the emperor protects existed before the levitico devinicus, Lorgar for instance preached that the emeperor was a god. Perhaps Alpharius was listening to Lorgar a bit to much?
OR Alpharius was corrupted by Lorgar personaly? Though he did want to prove himself and he was close to horus i dont think that is enought motivation for him. something else must of happened and i hope we find out in this book.

Sikkukkut
13-12-2007, 22:40
Sorry, what I meant was: Alpha-ree-uss, with the emphasis on the 'ree'. It's the coolest sounding pronunciation in my opinion :angel:

Nah, I still like having the emphasis on the second syllable.

Of course, this being 40K, we are now obligated to begin a savage schism over the issue that will lead to generations of bloody strife and destruction.

JOBusse
13-12-2007, 23:19
To me, it has to be pronounced loudly, like a battle cry.

"al-PHAIR-ee-OOS"

Draw out the oos until you run out of breath.

As far as the naming conventions: I think it's plausible that all Alpha Legionnaires are Alpharius. He was rather set on making sure his men were every bit as capable as himself; perhaps he set to remove anything that would distinguish him from themselves in their mind.

Daigawn
14-12-2007, 13:53
Thus we have all the reasons why alpharius was the greatist primarch, the alpha legion the best chaos legion and why the whole imperium should be modeled after the organization of the Alpha Legion.

Vaulkhar
14-12-2007, 14:58
...I'm Spartacus...


Personally I think they just use the name as a way of making sure that everyone else in the warzone jumps when told to.

Captain Stern
14-12-2007, 16:22
I think the speed he displayed in pinning the army guy to the wall while simultaneously severing his rifle cleanly in two suggests he's the primarch.

Burnthem
14-12-2007, 18:13
I think the speed he displayed in pinning the army guy to the wall while simultaneously severing his rifle cleanly in two suggests he's the primarch.

This being the fluff side of things, this could be done easily by any Astartes, not just a Primarch :)

Tyron
14-12-2007, 19:02
I think you guys are forgetting a few things.

A marines mind is vastly superior then that of a normal human. So calling themselves Alpharius is fine because anyone out side the legion wouldn't know who is who. Seeing as these astartes a) have superior trained minds and b) know each other like brothers. They will know who is who despite all having the same name.

Belisarius
15-12-2007, 01:13
I'm really curious if the alpha Legion got rid of their psychers as they were told to do in the one convocation..Thier espionage and intel gathering along with thier tactical use of everything tends to suggest otherwise. Am really hoping it is covered in the book.

Icarus
15-12-2007, 03:04
I'd never thought of that, but I doubt they would have got rid of them. An Alpha Legion psyker could get up to all sorts of neat little tricks! :evilgrin: