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eleveninches
11-12-2007, 13:02
355: lv4 Archmage (jewel of the dusk, 4x powerstones)
185: lv2 Mage (seerstaff, powerstone)
185: lv2 Mage (silver wand, 2x powerstones)
175: lv2 Mage (ring of corin, powerstone)
144: 12 Seaguard
159: 12 Seaguard (standard, musician)
180: 5 Dragon Princes (champion, talisman of loec)
220: 5 Dragon Princes (standard, banner of sorcery)
400: 4x RBT

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2003
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casting:
Ring of corin (power level 3),
13+D3 power dice,
8 powerstones.

dispelling:
7 dispell dice



might replace one of the bolt throwers with a couple of eagles for march blocking and warmachine hunting. In my normal HE list, i ususally have a 5-6 strong unit of white lions to protect the bolt throwers, being stubborn they can hold most of the time against charges, but there is no need for that here, as i can make the entire line stubborn with a single spell.

Countsprattcula
11-12-2007, 13:07
Is it legal to carry so many powerstones as they are arcane items ar'nt you only allowed one per charcter?

Still if not great like the idea.

CS

heinrichvoncarstein
11-12-2007, 14:12
it is not illegal. they are like scrolls so u can have more than 1 per army.


Would get archers and drop a unit of dp.

p3990013
11-12-2007, 14:20
This list is so extensively overused...

I usually encounter it like this:

4 x mages
4 x RBT
2 x 10 archers
as many Dragon Princes as possible

Be careful though, cause people who play this list end up with a die fetish...

wildkarrde0
11-12-2007, 14:30
its a good list but the ring of corin is now use only once get the ring of fury instead

Briohmar
11-12-2007, 14:35
Well, you have to drop something, you're over on points. For composition I think you get ... A big fat 0, no that's not an O, its a nil, zero, nada. Why not try to be creative and come up with a good list? So much min-maxing is ridculous. I would play against it maybe once, and then expect you to make a real army list.

fubukii
11-12-2007, 15:39
drop the archmage, drop th seaguard to archers upgrade to teclis also get the ring of fury. Now you would have

13 + 2d3 power dice

And 7+d3 dispel dice.

Red_Duke
11-12-2007, 15:48
That or you could give the archmage the combo that makes him effectively ethereal, then the other item that turns all magic weapons in base contact into mundane, making the orrible little bligher unkillable except for shooting/running down. No more mage sniping then!

Red_Duke
11-12-2007, 15:51
Overall though, not particularly impressive, as you end up with a load of magic users in a couple of weak units of seaguard. What happens if youre up against something like a dwarf gunline? would rip the stuffing out of your core units, especially a thorek one which could wrath and ruin the seaguard, potentially taking them both under 5 models on the first turn, then leaving the mages open to warmachine sniping. Not good...

Also, what do you do against a fast heavy cav army like brets? 2 little units of dragon princes arent going to stop all those units of knights, which will hit and run down the mage's units turn 2 no worries. Even 4 bolt throwers won't do enough damage realistically...

Red_Duke
11-12-2007, 15:55
Imo you just can't rely on two units of (albeit good) cavalry, and a few poxy small units of seaguard to protect your mages - generally i just dont think mages can do enough damage to base an entire army around them to be honest - they are superb support, but you need things like swordmasters, chariots, or phoenix guard to be able to get in and chop up the opposition.

Im not even going to comment on what a skaven SAD would do to something as fragile as that list btw...

eleveninches
12-12-2007, 08:49
especially a thorek one which could wrath and ruin the seaguard, potentially taking them both under 5 models on the first turn, then leaving the mages open to warmachine sniping. Not good... There are magic spells that can deal with thorek quite easily.


Also, what do you do against a fast heavy cav army like brets? 2 little units of dragon princes arent going to stop all those units of knights, which will hit and run down the mage's units turn 2 no worries. Even 4 bolt throwers won't do enough damage realistically... Lore of metal. Use stones to get spell six off (no armour saves, 2D6 S6 hits) from lv4 and the lv2 with seerstaff. THen for whatever is left, use the other 2 lv2 mages with their powerstones with lore of beasts to get beast cowers and/or hunters spear. That ought to take care of most brett knight armies, then finish off with 4 bolt throwers single-shotting at remaining knight units (no armour saves, S6). Then i will have my dragon princes to deal with peasants/warmachines/light cav, and for flank charging the leftover units.

BTW, spell6 from lore of metal has been changed, so now it causes 2D6 hits to the unit rather than 2D6 models being effected (clearly done for dealing with steam tanks, but can be put to good use against cavalry armies as well)


IMO you just can't rely on two units of (albeit good) cavalry, and a few poxy small units of seaguard to protect your mages - generally i just dont think mages can do enough damage to base an entire army around them to be honest - they are superb support, but you need things like swordmasters, chariots, or phoenix guard to be able to get in and chop up the opposition. That may be true with the old HE armies, but now I can make my entire gunline stubborn, as well as re-rolling to hit against a single enemy unit.

Red_Duke
12-12-2007, 09:26
Can you rely on getting said spells though?

I dont see anything in the list that will deal with 'Thorek in the Woods' btw...

Also, while you can certainly pump out a lot of spells, the point against heavy cav is that they have scrolls to protect them on the first turn, then hit you hard on the second.

A Thorek (or even normal anvil) gunline would certainly cause this list trouble - 9 odd dispel dice, plus possibly scrolls, combined with a real gunline. I also wouldnt rate its chances vs an empire gunline for that matter...

I imagine it would do well against certain armies, but you're simply not going to win a shooting match with 4 RBTs if you're up against a real gunline. Still, would be interesting to see how if fares in a few actual games :)

mightygnoblar
12-12-2007, 16:31
his mages arent too out in the open however as they can hide nicely amongst the bolt throwers with little chance of being hit, although i would try and find the points to field teclis if i were you

GKHERO
13-12-2007, 14:18
Is 7x dispelling dice enough at 2k vs. the forementioned armies?

Lorcryst
13-12-2007, 16:25
That's an army I would actually like to fight with my Night Goblins ...

A small note on magic : the more you cast, the more you risk getting a "double-1" ... relying on magic doesn't work, as I found the hard way.

Not a bad list overall, but not one that strikes fear in my heart.

As a final note : if you want to keep your friends, DON'T play with Teclis ... I'm really doubting that character was playtested, and I'm almost 100% sure that the guy who wrote that thing was very high that day ...

Fate
14-12-2007, 02:27
Well, if we take into acount the high probabilities of a drain magic spell entering in play even heavy magic armies might have a headache to control this game.
However i'd take one or 2 dispel scrolls, just to be on the safe side. Still i belive it's worth the risk, however be prepared for a first turn of the enemy where even your magic power might not be enough... After the first you should be alright.

Don't even think about the eagle, the bolt throwers will handle it easly enough, besides, they are worth the points, unlike the eagles.

Might i sugest the skeinsliver? Kind helpfull for your first turn.

Also why not change the dragon princes for sword masters, do a dirty trick like this. Place the bolt throwers on the edge of a hill, then right in front, down the hill the sword masters, there shoul be no more than 1 and a half inches between the 2 units. Now your bolt throwers still have LOS to fire however if you are charged on the bolt throwers by fliers, simple declare a stand and place your models in front of the bolt throwers, now there will be half an inch between your sword masters and your crew which means there is not enough space to fit the enemy bases, they just failed the charge cause of that (that's why i love sword masters, they can take charges from most anything and can do that due to a front of 10 models).

I know, it's very dirty, even if legal. And it RAWKS!

Makarion
14-12-2007, 03:23
*shrug* Legality doesn't matter when people refuse to play with you.

Fate
14-12-2007, 03:46
That is true, however i like to play with mature people who take what shows up. Not people who just babble that won't play cause i have a strong army or cause they were not expecting things like that to happen.

Kinda like when you're in the middle of a war you are not stoping it to say the opponent did something he considered unfair and are not fighting anymore.

enyoss
14-12-2007, 08:05
Kinda like when you're in the middle of a war you are not stoping it to say the opponent did something he considered unfair and are not fighting anymore.

I don't play Warhammer to experience the horrors of war though, I play it for enjoyment :p. If we go down that route I could argue for taking all 10000pts of my High Elf force to every game, as what General in his right mind would have all those spare troops at hand and not commit them to the fight?

As a thought experiment on creating the most robust list around, I'd try and squeeze Teclis in there and drop the seaguard to archers. Then I'd use any remaining points to max out on dragon princes.

However, as a fun army to play with or against, I'd scrap the entire concept and start again. I've played with an army much like this one and it was beyond the limits of boredom, for me and my opponent. The new list has given HE players the chance to stretch our legs a bit with the list. As such, it seems a shame to ignore the majority of the units!

Cheers,

enyoss

eleveninches
14-12-2007, 10:44
That's an army I would actually like to fight with my Night Goblins ...
I am hoping to play night goblins soon, as there are 2 people that i know who use them. plan for vs night goblins:
lv4 (jewel of the dusk, 4 stones) from high magic, getting flames of the phoenix and curse of arrow attraction
lv2 (silver wand, 2 stones) from high magic, hoping fo rflames of the phoenix
lv2 (seerstaff, powerstone) from death, choosing doom and darkness, and the spell that makes my army cause terror
lv2 (ring of fury) from shadow, swapping one spell for steed of shadows.

I can now fly my mage out of her unit to the side of goblin units to release their fanatics before they can get close to me. Then use doom and darkness and flames of the phoenix on the big units and curse of arrow attraction as well to help in the shooting phase. Should be able to completely wipe out or break 1-2 units per turn from magic and shooting.


Also why not change the dragon princes for sword masters, I could do that, but the swordmasters are too vunerable to shooting.

In my normal HE list, i ususally have a 5-6 strong unit of white lions to protect the bolt throwers, being stubborn they can hold most of the time against charges, but there is no need for that here, as i can make the entire line stubborn with a single spell.

GKHERO
14-12-2007, 14:46
as i can make the entire line stubborn with a single spell.

From the High Magic tree right?

What lores would you take on your mages when facing Tomb Kings, Dwarves and High Elves?

DragonPup
14-12-2007, 15:03
If you want a High Elf Gun/Magic line, why not take Teclis. *ducks*

GKHERO
14-12-2007, 15:25
If you want a High Elf Gun/Magic line, why not take Teclis. *ducks*

1) Points.
2) He wants magic flexibility.
3) If he wants Teclis to act as the central caster, he won't need 3 supporting Mages because all the power dice will be going to Teclis anyway.

eleveninches
15-12-2007, 21:19
Could take teclis by changing the list as follows:

-champion and talisman from dragon princes unit
-lv4 archmage
+teclis
-1 RBT

GKHERO
15-12-2007, 23:30
Could take teclis by changing the list as follows:

-champion and talisman from dragon princes unit
-lv4 archmage
+teclis
-1 RBT

This is my Teclis gunline:


1997 Teclis w/ 2x Mages

LORD: Teclis = 475
HERO: Lv.2 Mage + Silver Wand + 2x Scroll = 185
HERO: Lv.2 Mage + Jewel of Dusk + Scroll = 170
CORE: 10x Spearmen = 90
CORE: 10x Spearmen = 90
SPECIAL: 15x Phoenix Guard w/ Banner of Sorcery = 287
SPECIAL: 5x Dragon Princes = 150
SPECIAL: 5x Dragon Princes = 150
RARE: 4x Repeater Bolt Thrower = 400

Or, we could add some Chariots for some extra fun!


1997 Teclis w/ 3x RBT

LORD: Teclis = 475
HERO: Lv.2 Mage + 2x Scroll = 175
CORE: 10x Spearmen = 90
CORE: 10x Spearmen = 90
SPECIAL: 15x Phoenix Guard w/ Banner of Sorcery = 287
SPECIAL: 5x Dragon Princes = 150
SPECIAL: 5x Dragon Princes = 150
SPECIAL: 2x Lion Chariots of Chrace = 280
RARE: 3x Repeater Bolt Thrower = 300

eleveninches
16-12-2007, 09:52
What lores would you take on your mages when facing Tomb Kings, Dwarves and High Elves?

TK:
lv4 High
lv2 Seerstaff Beasts
lv2 High
lv2 Silverwand Heavens

DWARVES:
lv4 Metal
lv2 Seerstaff Metal
lv2 High
lv2 High

Fate
16-12-2007, 10:33
They do are somewhat sensitive to shoothing , however i don't expect the enemy to have much shooting falling on them, first cause of range (unless they bring units with 30" or more) and second cause if their units fire against my sword masters then my archers will take care of them.

Also i use sword masters for the single purpose i told you about (cause i prefer 2 attacks per models and have my bolt throwers nearly untouchable). If the enemy has shooting then there is not much to worry about, he is not a combat freak on which my units of sword masters will have that much importance.

Still, your army has merits! Just hope you don't lose your first turn against a 4 mage army or it could turn very bad for you with just 8 dice and no scroll.

lector#1
16-12-2007, 10:34
im all for mages but not in the way you use them like how fun could your army be if all you do is roll for spells and if you come up against another mage heavy army its just roll for spell roll for despell and it just goes back and forth until one of you miss cast and then your army starts to crumble