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GKHERO
14-12-2007, 03:43
Teclis has the High Magic tree.

He moves to cast Flames of the Phoenix and rolls 1, 2, 2, 3 = 8

The spell needs a 11+ to cast. Does it still go off? I say yes because it says the spell is Irresistible and according to the rule book on page. 107, it states:


The spell is cast successfully ..

xeolx
14-12-2007, 04:14
Teclis casts with irresistible force on any double except for double ones. Therefore, it would be cast with irresistible force even though the roll wasn't high enough to normally cast the spell.

Nurgling Chieftain
14-12-2007, 05:23
Teclis casts with irresistible force on any double except for double ones. Therefore, it would be cast with irresistible force even though the roll wasn't high enough to normally cast the spell.
That's wrong.

Just like the Book of Hoeth, Teclis only gets irresistable force on successful casting rolls that include a double. If you dont make the casting number, the spell will still fail as normal.

xeolx
14-12-2007, 05:36
D'oh! Seems you are correct.

Khorneflakes
14-12-2007, 08:23
he is, you have to equal or beat the casting roll and include any double to get IF.

theunwantedbeing
14-12-2007, 11:10
Yep equal or higher and containing a double to get irresistable force.
If you play it as just requiring a double then he's a whole lot scarier as you get noticably more chance to get irresistable force.

People do seem to make that mistake a little too often.....

Fate
14-12-2007, 12:22
Weel, i won't say this for sure since i don't have my rule book at hand and will read it later to make sure, however i belive that what is stated on the irresitable force rule is that if you get an irresistable force, the spell comes in play without any way to stop it, and that would mean even if the cast is bellow the normal requirements. However i might change that statement once i get my hand on the book and am completly sure of what i say. :P

Gropius
14-12-2007, 12:27
As far as I know the rulebook doesn't mention that irresistable force needs a successful cast to come in effect and it doesn't need to, because there are no spells that need more than a 12 to roll. That is why it is clearly mentioned in the description of Teclis an the Book of Hoeth that you need a successfull casting roll.

Chicago Slim
14-12-2007, 12:32
Now that's settled, here's one for you:

Teclis vs. Belakor. Teclis gets IF on any double. Belakor forces his opponents to miscast on any doubles.

I propose that Belakor wins, because miscasts occur even if the spell would normally be successfully cast (sucks for me, as a High Elf player who has a friend that does a lot of Daemonic Legions). Any dissenting opinions?

Makarion
14-12-2007, 12:37
As far as I know the rulebook doesn't mention that irresistable force needs a successful cast to come in effect and it doesn't need to, because there are no spells that need more than a 12 to roll. That is why it is clearly mentioned in the description of Teclis an the Book of Hoeth that you need a successfull casting roll.

Actually, the Plague spell from the skaven requires 13, but they get IF on a 13 as well, not on two 6s.

theunwantedbeing
14-12-2007, 12:49
The rules do state that spells have casting values between 3 and 15. page 107
On the same page it does state that "in addition" to requiring to generate the required value of the spell a roll of double 6 is an irresistable force.
So you could argue that by that if you attempt a 15+ to cast spell (ruination of cities or invocation of nehek level 4...both special character only spells) and roll only 2 dice, scoring 12. The spell is not actually cast, as you failed to beat the casting roll required.

With Teclis vs Be'lakor Teclis casts his spells with irresistable force and then suffers a miscast when casting against Be'lakor(on the roll of successful casting attempt that includes a double). Be'lakor's rule of allowing the spell to be cast with both effects overrides the fact that a miscast and an irresistable force would merely be a miscast.
Which is generally going to be bad for Be'lakor.

GKHERO
14-12-2007, 13:08
So I'm seeing a mixed array of votes here..

I guess I can always ask my shop today.

marv335
14-12-2007, 13:14
no you aren't
one person thinks spells cast on a double always work, everyone else (including the HE army books rules for Teclis) says that you still need to achieve the casting value.
Teclis is a good spellcaster, but he's not that good.

GKHERO
14-12-2007, 13:26
Oh, here's a question. Say one of my mages has Ring of Fury and that already gives me Fury of Khaine.. if I roll a 4 (which is Fury) and 5 at the beginning of the game, does that mean my mage will have 2x Furies? Or do I re-roll for another ability.

marv335
14-12-2007, 13:54
you get two FoK.
the ring is just a bound spell, it's nothing to do with the spells the mage knows.

OT:
my mage with the ring of fury killed 7 black orcs with one cast last night :D

GKHERO
14-12-2007, 15:42
you get two FoK.
the ring is just a bound spell, it's nothing to do with the spells the mage knows.

OT:
my mage with the ring of fury killed 7 black orcs with one cast last night :D

Sounds like a lot of fun :D

A ton of shooting I assume. 2x FoK coming from the same mage is amazing.

the12thronin
14-12-2007, 15:55
Now that's settled, here's one for you:

Teclis vs. Belakor. Teclis gets IF on any double. Belakor forces his opponents to miscast on any doubles.

I propose that Belakor wins, because miscasts occur even if the spell would normally be successfully cast (sucks for me, as a High Elf player who has a friend that does a lot of Daemonic Legions). Any dissenting opinions?

Not that big of a deal since Teclis ignores the first miscast every magic phase. Aside from that, you are correct since miscasts override Irresistable Force.

To the point that TheUnwantedBeing raised, would that then cap the maximum that Drain Magic can raise a casting value to since pg. 107 says the max casting value is a 15?

Chicago Slim
14-12-2007, 16:28
No, because Drain Magic doesn't raise the target, it lowers the roll (which is also a significant different, for dispelling).

Atrahasis
14-12-2007, 16:31
No, because Drain Magic doesn't raise the target, it lowers the roll (which is also a significant different, for dispelling).

On the contrary, Drain Magic raises the casting value of all spells (I think you may be stuck in 6th edition/Lizardmen mode).

Chicago Slim
14-12-2007, 16:44
Blast. Serves me right for posting without looking up the actual rule.

Greyfire
14-12-2007, 17:57
What about Teclis vs Slann Drain Magic?

If the Slann Drain Magic is cast, say causing all 5s and 6s to be discarded, and then Teclis rolls double 5s on a 8+ spell would that be Irresistible Force, or a failed casting?

I love this game. :)

-=- Steve

theunwantedbeing
14-12-2007, 18:06
Failed casting attempt as the 2 5's are discarded. So he doesnt get irresistable force.