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Corrupt
17-12-2007, 14:55
With the plethora of mounts available, and a game against Ogres tomorrow at 3k pts I was thinking about breaking out a Prince with a beast of a ride. I know dragons are all "teh Rockzors" but tbh Im in love with the Empire Griffon Elector Count Model (converted to have mounted high elf prince in his place) so I was just wondering how well people think the Griffon ranks in the scale of things compared to other mounts. Cheaper I know, but better value? Too easily splatted?

Caligula
17-12-2007, 15:12
I think Griffons are great! Well, they can be if you use them with some measure of care, while still allowing them to fulfill their purpose. I find that Griffons are indeed more easily killed than most Dragons, but this just means more care on your part.

Most people would say if you want to use a Griffon mounted character, use Eltharion and Stormwing, as Stormwing happens to be better than other Griffons and Eltharion has a Ward save that transfers to his mount. So that's quite nice. Not only that, but imho Eltharion is a great character all-round. If you did want to use Eltharion, just convert him instead of using the old model. Put a suitably armed looking Elf rider on the Empire Griffon, and off you go...

Of course, if you aren't into using special characters, disregard the previous bit;) Either way, Griffons are cool, and a nice compromise in points when you don't want to fork out massive amounts for a Dragon.

Nagash333
17-12-2007, 20:01
Griffon is a decent choice but beware of magic missiles! Against Ogres you should be ok, just avoid leadbelchers. Terror against Ogres is very good as is giving the Prince the Bow of the Sea Farer, some nice flank shots!

Buckero0
17-12-2007, 21:09
griffons look cool, model-wise, but in practice are horrible. Leadbelchers, sharp stuff, magic missiles (bonecruncher, bangstick) will kill him unless he charges turn 1. If your opponent is playing MSU style, you could possibly keep him in combat enough to be worth it (give one of your prince/nobles the foebane if you plan on tayloring your list) Really, the small dragon is better, for only 30 pts you get a scaly skin and T6 and a breath weapon.

In other words, you'll be really embarassed if your griffon dies to 50 shots of sharpstuff, so I would go with a dragon. Maybe your opponent will let you field a griffon model, as a sun dragon?

Logic512
17-12-2007, 23:01
I've been playing with a Prince+Star Dragon Combo. Pricey, but it rocks chariots (do ogres get them?) even when they charge and the Bow of the Seafarer is just stupid from the side. Same could be done with the Griffin for less points and less survivability so it's all a matter of taste in 3k points.

marv335
17-12-2007, 23:09
I like my dragon-lord. the star dragon is a very tasty combat unit in its own right. T6 and 7W makes it very survivable. I give the rider a great weapon, armour of caledor, and (an amulet of protection 6+ ward) and the bow of the sea farer.
he's not the most killy character, but the dragon is a powerful killer.
flanking shots on units with the BotSF is nasty when you combine it with a High Elf Princes Bs.

Voss
17-12-2007, 23:23
Griffon just seems a poor choice all-around. Compared to a Sun Dragon, you only save the cost of 2 elite troops and gain a slight init advantage, but lose toughness, wound, scaly skin save and breath weapon.

Corrupt
20-12-2007, 12:29
Played around with the griffon to...mixed success. First game it fluffed some attacks flanking some longbeards who through my own fault were murdering my spearmen. Beaten back he fled, into range of an organ gun and got shot out from under my prince, who found solace killing some rangers when he rallier. (DAMN YOU AUTO HITS) Although the terror did make some rangers flee which amused me

Second game vs Empire it as great. Terror broke two units as I murdered my way through some spears and halbadiers.

So yeah take one, they're great models and quite powerful too. Just dont get near artillary by accident and avoid longbeards...

Fhoen
20-12-2007, 13:39
I like my dragon-lord. the star dragon is a very tasty combat unit in its own right. T6 and 7W makes it very survivable. I give the rider a great weapon, armour of caledor, and (an amulet of protection 6+ ward) and the bow of the sea farer.
he's not the most killy character, but the dragon is a powerful killer.
flanking shots on units with the BotSF is nasty when you combine it with a High Elf Princes Bs.

isn't that great weapon only +1 strenght when mounted?? isn't the halberd a better option for ur mounted lord then, it's 6points less for the same effect
unless i am mistaken :)

smileyface
20-12-2007, 15:18
With the plethora of mounts available, and a game against Ogres tomorrow at 3k pts I was thinking about breaking out a Prince with a beast of a ride. I know dragons are all "teh Rockzors" but tbh Im in love with the Empire Griffon Elector Count Model (converted to have mounted high elf prince in his place) so I was just wondering how well people think the Griffon ranks in the scale of things compared to other mounts. Cheaper I know, but better value?

The griffon vs Sun Dragon basically comes down to this: The sun dragon is quite a bit better for the points, but uses a hero slot. At 3K you probably aren't short of character slots, so tactically the sun dragon would be a better option. :(
On the other hand, maybe you could use the griffon model and agree with your opponent to count it as a sun dragon. I'd agree to it.

Frankly though, if they don't agree and it's griffon or new model, ogres are probably one of the better enemies to use a griffon against because they are relatively short of shooting. Just make sure you understand which units can and can't shoot, and try to stay out of the way.
Also, it might be time to use Foe Bane.


I give the rider a great weapon, armour of caledor,

Great Weapon? Did I miss a rule change somewhere, or would a halberd be the better option?

marv335
20-12-2007, 15:28
the great weapon costs a few more points, but I prefer the look of a great weapon to a halberd on a mounted character. a few points is worth it to me to maintain wysiwyg
that said, against another character with ASF the halberd would bypass the strikes last problem of great weapons.

Fhoen
20-12-2007, 15:46
the great weapon costs a few more points, but I prefer the look of a great weapon to a halberd on a mounted character. a few points is worth it to me to maintain wysiwyg

the great weapon's look is just like a halberd to me , and if u really really don't think so , just make the staff holding the blade longer and a plastic speartip on top of it .
then u got ur halberd ;)

Dragon Prince of Caledor
21-12-2007, 00:32
i think that for the extra ability to live and breathe fire the sun dragon is worth the extra 30 pts...

Tutore
21-12-2007, 09:18
Griffons are not a good choice against armies with T4. Their S5 attacks won't be able to be 100% effective. Beware.

lector#1
21-12-2007, 09:35
well your in the same situation i was i wanted a fast characterand was leaning towards an eagle , but liked the dragon model better my first game with wood elf lord on dragon was against ogres and he done surprisingly well

even tho i had little magic defence agaisnt 3 butchers and no other flying or combat units to back him up

what i can say for any flying mount you use against ogres is put him in the middle and DONT charge first turn you wont make it, fly towards one of the flanks and put him forward about 5 inches, and then start your charges, few things you want to watch out for are obviously leadbealtchers, butchers are harmful especially agaisnt a griffon, and watch out if he has gorgers they will ruin your day if he gets them to ambush your general, it was easy to get around this for me because both my lord and dragon had a 3+wardsave IMO one of the best magic items in the woodelves list and possibly most other armies. back on subject tho if you get some great eagles to fly next to your prince and block other units from charging your general or just flank charge the units your lord charges he wll stay alive much much longer

hope that helps

Xzazzarai
21-12-2007, 16:13
What allmost everyone here that uses Draons and not Griffons seems to forget, is that a Griffon does NOT use up an additional hero-slot. So jsut saying that you get T6, Scaly Skin and a breathweapon for 30pts isn't all of it. In to those 30 points you have to put an additional hero-slot.

Corrupt
21-12-2007, 16:14
What allmost everyone here that uses Draons and not Griffons seems to forget, is that a Griffon does NOT use up an additional hero-slot. So jsut saying that you get T6, Scaly Skin and a breathweapon for 30pts isn't all of it. In to those 30 points you have to put an additional hero-slot.

Allowing me my three level 2 mages:D
Another vote in favour of the griffon. Was challenged the other day and while rider fluffed his attacks (strategically of course) the griffon ripped the orc to pieces :D
Just looked cool with this rearing griffon ripping some orc into bits.