PDA

View Full Version : Free time and the Imperium



Pooky
19-12-2007, 11:04
Quite simply, do Imperial citizens get any "free time"?

I was thinking, looking at a Hive city, each citizen would go to work (as soon as they can walk!) and would punch in a 12 hour day. But when they go home do they watch TV? Eat dinner? Have sex? Play games? Read? Would they be allowed to drink? In other words, when they are not working for the betterment of the Imperium (i.e. their jobs), what do Imperial citizens do with their time?

The Hobo Hunter
19-12-2007, 11:09
In the COD book it briefly mentions that most imperial factory workers work 20 hour shifts, but that might just be GW over-exaggerating stuff again.

Daredhnu
19-12-2007, 11:11
i'd say two words: prayer time, that takes up alot of the day too i'd guess

other than that i think they have bars (necromunda background is full of it) so they will drink.
also without sex there would be no following generations so they have that too i guess. and to be honest i don't think you'll need much more than that sex, food, drink & prayer (in 40k anyway)

and yeah 20 hour days are kinda impossible 16 hours could be doable but barely so it's definately exaggeration

Gen.Steiner
19-12-2007, 11:30
Well, from the Inquisitor series (Ravenor and Eisenhorn), as well as the various Guard-based books from the Black Library and, of course, Double Eagle and others, the average Imperial Citizen's day will be much like ours. Maybe an 8-6 rather than a 9-5, but in their free time:

Prayer, gambling, reading, drinking, eating, shagging, playing, arguing, engaging in hobbies, prayer, worship, singing, etc etc.

Essentially, being human.

Lord Malice
19-12-2007, 11:36
It entirely depends upon what sort of world your talking about whether or not any given citizen will have 'leisure time'.

As for a hive world, well, it depends on the hive and where in the hive your looking at. Let's say your thinking about Hive Primus then in the Spire the nobility will have lots of spare time to use however they please depending on their house and personal convictions. Most of the time they will be overseeing their offworld and industrial interests.

In Hive City the houses will be running their manufactoria and sabotaging the other houses, negotiating for trade contracts or running off to the underhive. It is debatable whether or not the Imperium has television or even radio, especially on a hive world where even concepts such as 'outside' and 'the sun' are considered to be myths to the vast majority. Then you have to wonder if these peopel even have homes to back to, perhaps they simply live right next to the production line they work on, snatching a few hours of sleep hear and there on top of generators where its warm and away from the bustle of the machines and other workers.

And then you have the Underhive, a wild west style frontier area where gangs are in constant competition with each other for food and resources. Yes, they hang out in drinking dens they control, play cards and chat about the good times and getting to the Spire but theirs is a short brutal life dominated by fighting.

OrlyggJafnakol
19-12-2007, 11:39
and yeah 20 hour days are kinda impossible 16 hours could be doable but barely so it's definately exaggeration

Factory workers in Victorian Britain were known to work for 18-20 hours a day in many areas. 40k is fantasy. The fluff writers can say anything they like. Perhaps the workers are feed stims to keep them going. Anything is possible.

Apologist
19-12-2007, 11:40
There's numerous canonical text to suggest that there are pleasure worlds where the wealthy can writhe in decadence, and plenty to suggest that most Imperial citizens can expect to enjoy some free time.

What that free time entails, of course, is entirely down to the planet in question:
...from the dust-fields of agri-world Joh, where labourers sweat for nine hours a day, twelve days a week – and spend the rest of their time frantically cleaning their oculars, praying and catching a precious few hours of tortured sleep...

...to the impoverished indentured workers of Minas Fall, where a lottery is held every week to determine who is lucky enough to work for food – while the rest try to stay immobile and use as little resources as possible until the next lottery...

...to Perrellerre, whose tiny population live in such fantastic wealth and natural plenty that there is no need for labour – their only exports music and philosophy...

...to the magnificent Cathedral-spires of Marathon; whose faithful spend half their days in choral praise, and the remaining half resting their tattered vocal cords in quiet contemplation of the Emperor...

...to Braun VI, whose indentured populace labours day and night owing to selective breeding and cranial cyberplants that bypass the diurnal rhythms...

...to Mordian, where resources are so scarce that the disciplined study hymnals and improving informational dataslates while the rebellious rag-gangs indulge in forbidden wastage: urinating freely into the street and intentionally damaging their issued tag-uniforms...

...to embattled Geri-geri, where all free time is spent scavenging roachvermin for pasty, bitter meals under the relentless threat of the Oort Conclave's cloud-warriors...

...to the dusky gas-clouds of B-7/JJ's orbital crys-mining platforms; whose scant juvenat-treated populace has spent generations engaging in stagnant, elegant, complex and eternal courtship rituals since contact was lost with their employers...

...to Plwyl, whose slavers indulge in pitfighting their runtlings to relieve the boredom between raids...

There's plenty of alcohol (amasec, synthale, malt liq), drugs (grinweed, lho-sticks, spook), music (pound and classical tablets) and similar leisure activities mentioned in various texts to suggest that some worlds are much like ours in terms of free time.

Sai-Lauren
19-12-2007, 11:52
Some worlds would be little more than slave-labour camps, but the majority can't be, simply because the imperium would spend more time putting down riots than anything else.

In my view, there are a lot of diversions for the average imperial citizen, literature, media, music and other forms of entertainment - both approved by a part of the Administratum (in order to divert the populaces attention off of potential problem issues and to focus their energies onto projects and work for the good of the imperium, or to rile them up against certain groups that are deemed to be a threat until all that's needed is someone to hand out the pitforks and burning torches ) and underground/unapproved (some controlled by rebel groups, others just by disaffected people who don't really mean any major harm), with the exact nature of them depending on the world, the citizens social standing and so on.
Sports would likely be fairly high on the list, be it merely attending matches, or actually turning out for the factory/housing block cluster/regional team - again they'll be used for the Imperium's advantages.

The Church would also likely fill some part of the average citizens life - be it only attending weekly services, or actually doing voluntary/penitential work (which could be anything from washing the church's front steps to participating in mutant/heretic/cultist hunts). The church would probably also stress family life as very important (behind only devotion to the Emperor, service to Him through work and service to the Church ;)).

I think a lot of worlds would also require their citizens to undergo regular military reservist training (especially those in the age range that would likely be taken in the next guard founding).

Burnthem
19-12-2007, 12:18
As is the answer to most questions on this forum, it varies immensely, some worlds will look exactly the same as present day earth, others will be the afore-mentioned slave worlds. There are so many worlds that every concievable possibility is probably happening. Dont get drawn into the 'its 40K so EVERYBODY IN THE GALAXY is a downtrodden hive worker' mentality, as its simply not true.

DapperAnarchist
19-12-2007, 12:39
Apologist, that was a fantastic post.

Wolflord Havoc
19-12-2007, 13:02
I think this all depends on the world and the situation of the individual.

Some worlds would make the film '1984' appear 'nice' and John Hurt a lucky fellow while others would be very relaxed relatively speaking.

Your typical forge World indentured worker might have a miserable existance with so called 20 hour shifts (though this brings into question how many hours exist on a given world or do they use the Solar Year sub divided by 1000 time units (aprox 8.75 earth hours each) but thats by the by). The same worker might have certain implants to allow them to maintain this workload and/or bionics to improve their ability to carry out the job they do.
While his/her existance might be miserable by our standards - the individual may not know any better (perhaps his/her job is hereditary) and might be aware that the lasgun sub assembly he has been producing at the rate of 60 an hour for the last 22 years of his life is helping to protect the Imperium. To him his work station may very well be treated as his/her shrine to the Emperor. :chrome:

A citizen on an industrial world might have a life much like our own except that they would be living in a much more 'religious' society than our own. I would suspect that they would have the same sort of working hours as ourselves 8 - 12 per working day. :angel:

A farming world might be different again with a more laid back attitude coupled with frenzied activity come harvest time :cool:

I have to confess that when I saw that little story in City fight I pretty much thought that it was all well and good but certainly not a true reflection on the whole of the Imperium.

LordXaras
19-12-2007, 13:30
The biggest problem with the question is that we somehow have the assumption that the Imperium cares the slightest for its populace.

The Imperium re-conquers lost human colonies by force, and place these under the control of a military commander. The only thing that matters is that the world can help sustain the galactic war machine by their tithes. As long as that is taken care of, the Imperium is blind and deaf to anything on the surface.

The only time the Imperium interferes is when there is a risk of loosing the world's tithe, and even then they will try to sacrifice as little resources as possible.

The Imperium doesn't care if a world has 95% of its population enslaved or if all labour is taken care of by automata with its people sipping drinks on the beaches - as long as the tithe is delivered there are more important things to care about.

DartzIRL
19-12-2007, 13:41
I wonder if, in 39000 years, some lowely geek on some backwater civilised planet might be looking at an cogitatornet forum, and wondering just how people from the Third Millenium actually passed their time with hymnals, mindless repetitive tasks and fooseball....

Then, he goes off to play a Wargame... Union Confedarate States versus Londonium Empire army... based on ancient terran history....

TheBigBadWolf
19-12-2007, 13:48
in necromunda is there not a reference to joy girls

Iracundus
19-12-2007, 14:43
The Imperium doesn't care if a world has 95% of its population enslaved or if all labour is taken care of by automata with its people sipping drinks on the beaches - as long as the tithe is delivered there are more important things to care about.

Although true the Imperium doesn't care how a world does it, the Imperium is unlikely to demand anything less than heavy tithes close to the maximum limit of what can be squeezed from a world. Such heavy tithes in turn mean it is less likely for a world to be able to achieve its quotas via laid back attitudes and lots of leisure time for the general citizens. If they can do so, good for them but more likely the quotas would require more draconian measures.

imperial_scholar
19-12-2007, 15:19
Although true the Imperium doesn't care how a world does it, the Imperium is unlikely to demand anything less than heavy tithes close to the maximum limit of what can be squeezed from a world. Such heavy tithes in turn mean it is less likely for a world to be able to achieve its quotas via laid back attitudes and lots of leisure time for the general citizens. If they can do so, good for them but more likely the quotas would require more draconian measures.

Read Imperial Armour Vol 5. if you can. Even after a Civil war a planet is required to fulfill its tithes. The Tithes even during the Civil War!

Also... on Kreig, they produce 10 regiments a year while others produce 1 a year. Imagine all that baby making :P

Lastly... the amount of hours a day could also determine the length of the day on the planet. You'd be surprised how much sunlight effects us.

Burnthem
19-12-2007, 16:55
Also... on Kreig, they produce 10 regiments a year while others produce 1 a year. Imagine all that baby making :P.

yep, all those Tech-adepts filling those test tubes and incubators must be working thier socks off :rolleyes: ;)

CELS
19-12-2007, 17:17
Apologist, did you just make that up on the spot? If so, I'm mildly impressed :)

Norminator
19-12-2007, 17:23
Apologist, did you just make that up on the spot? If so, I'm mildly impressed :)

It was from here; http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118600

LordXaras
19-12-2007, 18:21
It was from here; http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118600That thread was created after his post here.

Norminator
19-12-2007, 18:26
That thread was created after his post here.

...

Touche :p

Cuthullu
20-12-2007, 11:20
I think the living conditions of an imperial civilian are so widly spread as one can imagine.

slaved workers, which´s only thing in their lives apart from working is a drink in an awful bar or a quick date with the whore around the corner.

nomads, wrestling with nature to survive, moving around constantly in search for food and supplies.

office workers, having a nice house, two childs, a wife and a car in a city just like ours in the western heisphere.

Farmers, either growing crops on a paradise planet with 3 harvests a year or struggling against a harsh nature for a harvest hardly to cover their own needs.

From Citiziens living at moderate temperatured planets, with beautifaul plants and animals, creating art and highest quality products to Hives, where people are born and buried without knowing the words SUN or WEATHER.

From Feudal worlds, with aristocratic government, where ones live is in the hands of its master to industrialised planets, with TV and Radio, Arenas for Sports and Parks for Leisure.

From Citiziens of Death Worlds, where only 30% reach the age of 30 to worlds where genetics and life enhancers are so common, that you look like a 30 year old when you reach your mid age of 100.

I really think everything is possible, GW just tries to focus on harshand deadly planets to bring the dark feeling to the 40k universe.

bosstroll
20-12-2007, 11:38
The expansion: "Terror in the middle-east" of the popular wargame: Warhammer 2k, is very much the "in" thing to do these days ;)

Sekhmet
20-12-2007, 11:51
In the COD book it briefly mentions that most imperial factory workers work 20 hour shifts, but that might just be GW over-exaggerating stuff again.

That's assuming a 24 hour day. Although the Imperial Calendar is based on Terran time, what if the official day was a 30 hour day?

Apologist
20-12-2007, 14:18
Apologist, did you just make that up on the spot? If so, I'm mildly impressed :)

Feel free to be mildly impressed. :p

I do so like writing little hints of colour text – and 40k's sufficiently fantastic to allow the weirdest ideas to work.

Baltar
23-12-2007, 12:19
I imagine people in the Imperium do the same thing you and I would do: have sex, watch TV, drive around, go out to eat, etc.

The Guy
23-12-2007, 21:48
...to the impoverished indentured workers of Minas Fall, where a lottery is held every week to determine who is lucky enough to work for food – while the rest try to stay immobile and use as little resources as possible until the next lottery...

Sucks to be them.
I'd spend my free time busting caps in some aliens ass. Word.
They must have games consoles and stuff. PS40,003?
Maybe even a little tabletop gaming? The nerds that were too weedy for the guard need something to do :p
Maybe they play "Warhammer 2000"!
:eek:

Chilltouch
23-12-2007, 22:11
Lower hive-workers work shifts that are probably 18 hours long, and have 2 hours worth of prayer breaks. They also probably live at their workplace - leaving them three hours of sleep, I would say.

Middle classers would probably have more decent time. About six hours of sleep a night with the same prayer time.

I'd say the higher class people - who would still range in the millions in hive cities - would actually have the free time to attend various social events.

Brother Siccarius
24-12-2007, 00:20
The biggest problem with the question is that we somehow have the assumption that the Imperium cares the slightest for its populace.

The Imperium re-conquers lost human colonies by force, and place these under the control of a military commander. The only thing that matters is that the world can help sustain the galactic war machine by their tithes. As long as that is taken care of, the Imperium is blind and deaf to anything on the surface.

The only time the Imperium interferes is when there is a risk of loosing the world's tithe, and even then they will try to sacrifice as little resources as possible.

The Imperium doesn't care if a world has 95% of its population enslaved or if all labour is taken care of by automata with its people sipping drinks on the beaches - as long as the tithe is delivered there are more important things to care about.

The biggest problem with that is that you assume the Imperium is evil, not uncaring. An uncaring person wouldn't give them sick leave or vacation time, an evil person makes them little more or less than slaves. An uncaring person would give them time for leisure and sleep simply because they wouldn't want to have to put up with riots, plagues, mass population loss and starvation.

Then again, it's entirely flawed to personify the Imperium as a whole, considering that it's, instead, entirely fractured parts of a whole. The Imperium doesn't care, nor will System or Planetary Governors, but the people in charge of the working populace will have some kind of system in place to keep the work flowing. Tired workers produce little, dead workers produce none, rebelling workers produce lots, but not for you. Of course, this doesn't always mean it's going to be a happy happy joy time either, because of how diverse the Imperium is. However, to suggest that it's entirely evil and always treats it's workers viciously is unfair to say the least.

Now convict workers is another story entirely, and those are usually the ones who get the worst jobs.


Sucks to be them.
I'd spend my free time busting caps in some aliens ass. Word.
They must have games consoles and stuff. PS40,003?
Maybe even a little tabletop gaming? The nerds that were too weedy for the guard need something to do :p
Maybe they play "Warhammer 2000"!
:eek:

Actually in the Archeotech discovered by Kal Jericho and Scabs in "The Motherload" you can clearly make out a Play Station console and controls. Made me giggle.

Iracundus
24-12-2007, 04:12
Nobody said the Imperium's working conditions are actively evil. The Administratum doesn't care how an Imperial Governor meets his quotas so long as they are met. However the Imperium as shown does have a tendency to exact heavy tithes, probably close to a world's maximum limit of production. A lenient benevolent Imperial Governor promoting humane working conditions with lots of leisure and paid leave would likely have difficulty meeting these quotas. It is more a consequence of these high quotas encouraging long inhumane working conditions rather than the Imperium actively enjoying oppressing its working class.

legio mortis
24-12-2007, 04:34
However the Imperium as shown does have a tendency to exact heavy tithes, probably close to a world's maximum limit of production.
Tithes are given according to what the world can produce in excess of planetary consumption and business. The only planets with heavy tithes like the ones you are describing would be very successful hive and industrial worlds. As shown by Eisenhorn, many planets have a surplus of goods, leading to successful trading and business.

Dakkagor
24-12-2007, 08:37
In the end, it makes more sense to keep your workers busy, productive and happy by ensuring a balance between work and leisure time. Happy, rested workers are ones not making stupid mistakes or bemoaning their lots in life and planning heresy/treason. While I imagine conditions could be pretty dire on either frontline warzone worlds or the ones just behind the lines (with just about everyone pulling overtime to keep the guard and fleet supplied), elsewhere, planetary governers who kept their position would be the ones who ruled wisely and sensibly, and didn't flog their populace to death or into revolt.

(I really hate that line the COD book)