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Dr Cuddles
21-12-2007, 01:17
So. The DA want to find Cypher.


Really really badly. But how badly exactly? To what lengths are they willing to go? Joining forces with chaos/daemons? Killing other space marines for the hint of knowledge to Cyphers whereabouts?




(Just trying to work on some fluff as to why a Chaos force and a DA Successor chapter could possible be working together)

elusiveintrovert
21-12-2007, 01:42
I very much doubt that the DA would ally with chaos to catch Cypher. They really don't seem to like to ally with anyone when it comes to hunting the fallen, and tend to kill those who find out about it.

Vesica
21-12-2007, 02:35
they 'might' and this is at a huge stretch allie with a renegade chapter for some uber good info, but in the end they would probably turn on them and purge them back to the warp

deathwing_marine
21-12-2007, 02:45
The thing is most Chaos marines shouldnt know about Cypher. Even if they do, they probably dont know his history.

The_Patriot
21-12-2007, 02:54
So. The DA want to find Cypher.

Really really badly.

But how badly exactly?

They will want to hunt him down, but they won't drop everything they're doing to do it. Duty and Mission objectives would take priority.


To what lengths are they willing to go?

See above.


Joining forces with chaos/daemons?

If they joined forces with Chaos and Daemons then they in turn have become The Fallen. A Dark Angel would rather die before dealing with the ruinous powers and become a member of The Fallen.


Killing other space marines for the hint of knowledge to Cyphers whereabouts?

Dark Angels have been known in the past to have killed Space Marines from other Chapters for the knowledge they have of The Fallen and of Cypher.


(Just trying to work on some fluff as to why a Chaos force and a DA Successor chapter could possible be working together)

A Dark Angel successor chapter wouldn't ally with a Chaos force. They would choose death over any perceived benefits from working with Chaos. Remember, The Fallen are Dark Angels that followed Luthor into Chaos and loyal Dark Angels know all too well the price that is paid for dealing with Chaos. In short, it's not possible.

LexxBomb
21-12-2007, 05:37
the DA destroyed a Black Templay Crusier to get him (and failed getting him)

elusiveintrovert
21-12-2007, 07:09
the DA destroyed a Black Templay Crusier to get him (and failed getting him)

Actually, they threatened the BT cruiser with destruction if they did not turn him over. After they turned him over, the cruiser "mysteryously disappeared." Cypher escaped after the DA had him in their custody.

Anyway, I could see the DA possibly unknowingly working with renegades, but not with any choas aligned forces, atleast not knowingly. Does your fluff perhaps include Alpha Legion?

Gorbad Ironclaw
21-12-2007, 08:27
They will want to hunt him down, but they won't drop everything they're doing to do it. Duty and Mission objectives would take priority.



But hunting down Cypher is seen as the highest duty of all. I can't imagine any Dark Angel force not anbandoning the engagement they are in to hunt him down if they get a solid lead, or maybe even a rumour. If no other DA forces(and that includes the successor chapters, they seem to operate pretty much as one force anyway) were in the vincinity and able to take up the hunt they will go.

Yes, it might mean that Imperial forces lose the battle and that a planet gets over run or something, and while regretable, if that's the price to pay, then thats the price they will pay.
It's not something they do when other duties allow. It's what they do. Other things gets done if the hunt for the fallen allows it.

But allying with chaos, no way. That would essentially be repeating the sin they are trying to attone for, and it just wouldn't be done.

pookie
21-12-2007, 09:55
They will want to hunt him down, but they won't drop everything they're doing to do it. Duty and Mission objectives would take priority.

yes they would, they seem to only follow thier own goals, and even out of all the Astatares they are less likly to follow orders given or requests for Aid if they think they can capture even one member of the fallen, if Cyper was in their sights, then they would be prepared to go to any lengths to capture him, even leaving a battle and there allies to chase them ( the Fallen) or Him ( Cypher ) down.

TheLionReturns
21-12-2007, 10:48
I'll echo the comments on not working with chaos. That is perhaps the only thing the Dark Angels wouldn't do. They are more likely to try to capture the chaos renegades and torture them for information.

I've always got the impression reading Dark Angels fluff that they are a very dutiful chapter and take their responsibilities very seriously. It is just that the hunt for the fallen always takes precedence regardless. This gives the impression of random withdrawals and unreliability. However contrary to the perception it is not laxity in duty that causes these withdrawals but merely changing priorities. I would imagine all space marine chapters suffer from this image a bit. Being small forces they will redeployed as needed which can be interpreted by those left behind, who are not privy to the larger strategic picture, giving an impression of unreliability.

Apollyon
21-12-2007, 16:54
I imagine the DA have "agents" they can count on for info that are not truely DA and that the DA have infiltrated the Inquistion to some degree.

jb85
21-12-2007, 16:56
I've always got the impression reading Dark Angels fluff that they are a very dutiful chapter and take their responsibilities very seriously. It is just that the hunt for the fallen always takes precedence regardless. This gives the impression of random withdrawals and unreliability. However contrary to the perception it is not laxity in duty that causes these withdrawals but merely changing priorities. I would imagine all space marine chapters suffer from this image a bit. Being small forces they will redeployed as needed which can be interpreted by those left behind, who are not privy to the larger strategic picture, giving an impression of unreliability.

It's laxity in duty in so much as they will go haring off to fulfil their own agenda in instead of helping to achieving overall Imperial objectives. For example the Dark Angels (and Unforgiven as a whole) operated outside of the Imperial command structure in the Eye of Terror campaign, fighting a series of battles around the ruins of Caliban, when Imperial forces were in desperate need of reinforcement in a number of other war zones.

TheLionReturns
21-12-2007, 18:06
It's laxity in duty in so much as they will go haring off to fulfil their own agenda in instead of helping to achieving overall Imperial objectives.

I quite agree, no doubting it is laxity. It is important to remember though that rumours of the Fallen are rare. I believe there is an impression that the Dark Angels are constantly leaving mid battle and only really do the fallen thing nothing else. This is misleading and not really reflected in the fluff. It is also important to remember that hunting the fallen occasionally has positive consequences. I believe it is the most recent Imperial Armour book which has the Dark Angels arriving more quickly than expected to a call for aid because they were already en route hunting some fallen.

I'm not trying to suggest that the Dark Angels obsession with the fallen is insignificant. What I am trying to point out is more that there is almost a slight conflict within the Dark Angels, where in terms of personal character they are dutiful and serious,almost to the point of obsession, but at the same time have this non-conformist streak due to this dark secret of theirs. This contrast adds depth to the chapters character for me and is one of the reasons I am drawn to them.

ryng_sting
21-12-2007, 18:09
There's just as many accounts of them abandoning battles at key moments, with often tragic consequences. Remember what Usurkar E. Creed himself called the Dark Angels for their actions during the 13th Black Crusade...?

What Boreas said in Angels of Darkness was true. The DA need to remember they exist first and foremost to protect and serve the Emperor and his Imperium, and not their own chapter.

angels of awesome
22-12-2007, 06:10
the DA would place hunting the fallen above just about everything. in the space wolf codex it says they just left mid battle leaving the space wolf flank open.

vuren
03-04-2008, 09:06
They will want to hunt him down, but they won't drop everything they're doing to do it. Duty and Mission objectives would take priority.

but it states in the army book that they have suddenly left battle to hunt down just one fallen. Duty and mission objectives do take priority, but they view the duty and mission objectives to "redeem"<cough> hide the fact that they turned traitor during the war with horus <cough> and will hunt down members that know this secret so they no longer have to worry about(so they think). A guilty conscience is a hard thing to deal with, expecially after a 1000 years.

Iuris
03-04-2008, 10:34
Any cooperation with daemons/chaos marines would be limited to "TELL ME WHERE THEY ARE RIGHT NOW OR I KEEP TWISTING THE BLADES OF REASON IN THE WOUND!".

But they have abandoned allies in bas situations to go on wild goose chases, so staying on target is not necessarily quite easy for them...