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Firebreather
21-12-2007, 04:34
For most, this will be your first sight of me. Hi! I'm a new Warhammer player and have decided on building a High Elf army to start me off with. In terms of background, they're my first love(to put it in a strange and disturbing way), so it's only right to do so.

I have the new army book, but I'm a little lost when it comes to configuring a decent army. I've taken a rather in-depth look at some of the army lists floating around these forums, and have some ideas of my own in mind, but I would like a more..."beginners" themed approach to this, in the hopes of starting off on the right foot.

So, for now I'm looking to start at the 1500 points level. I would be very appreciative of any advice given on where to start this endeavour. Anything on units, tactics, characters, or anything else involved would be a massive help. I'm looking mainly for a well-rounded, "balanced", and good-looking force to start off with. Nothing overly themed at this point, as I'm pretty much just trying to get my head around the army as a whole, so eventually I can theme effectively if I see fit to do so.

So, venerable and wise generals of the Asur...what should I start with for a 1500 point army?

Firebreather
21-12-2007, 14:21
Okay, since it seems as though nobody's biting yet, I'll go ahead and post the first list I've come up with. It's, as I've said above, a 1500 point force, and I've tried to include a bit of everything I want...which is most likely my first mistake. Regardless, here's the list. Please let me know what you think of it, and what I should do with it.

Dragon Mage of Caledor-
Level 2
Guardian Phoenix
Silver Wand

Mage-
Level 2
Sacred Incense
Jewel of the Dusk

15 Spearmen-
Sentinel
Musician
Standard Bearer

18 Sword Masters of Hoeth-
Bladelord
Musician
Standard Bearer
Banner of Arcane Protection

6 Dragon Princes of Caledor-
Musician
Standard Bearer
War Banner

Tiranoc Chariot

Great Eagle

Great Eagle

TOTAL-1500pts.

Fhoen
21-12-2007, 14:40
seems like a nice army ,
u don't have much shooting so maybe drop the bolt thrower and get 2 eagles to go for warmachine/mage hunting, cus on his own i don't think the bolt thrower would do much :)

Firebreather
21-12-2007, 14:44
Great, thanks very much for the reply, Fhoen! I'm glad to see I'm on the right track. I know, a lone Bolt Thrower isn't of terribly much value, is it? I'd kill to have an extra 100 points in there, just to add another and make it really viable. Oh well, such is life.

So you suggest I go for two Great Eagles instead? Alright, I'll edit the above list to include them. Thanks very much!

Firebreather
21-12-2007, 14:48
Just for kicks I've made another list, which is a little more substantial in terms of numbers. I am, however, enthused for the first list thanks to Fhoen's compliment and suggestion, which I quite like.

Anyway, here's the second list.

Mage-
Level 2
Jewel of the Dusk
Guardian Phoenix

Noble-
Lance
Dragon Armour
Barded Elven Steed
Shield
Sacred Incense
Talisman of Loec

20 Spearmen-
Sentinel
Musician
Standard Bearer

10 Archers

18 Sword Masters of Hoeth-
Bladelord
Musician
Standard Bearer
Banner of Arcane Protection

9 Silver Helms-
High Helm
Musician
Standard Bearer
Shields

Tiranoc Chariot

Repeater Bolt Thrower

Repeater Bolt Thrower

TOTAL-1500pts.

Abduction
21-12-2007, 16:54
If you want to take silver helms don't put them in big units! Take units of 5-6, thats much more effective. Otherwise it looks OK, try putting the Talisman of Loec on the bladelord.

Fhoen
22-12-2007, 12:07
yeah u can't afford the noble to die as he's your general and costwise :p
the bladelorde is like 1/5 of his points and hit's almost as hard (even harder if the noble doesn't get the chance to charge :p)

Dead Man Walking
22-12-2007, 16:18
I am of the mindset that the repeater doesnt have to kill 100 points to be worth fielding. If it can pop off just 1 guy in a ranked up unit you have reduced its ability to win combat by 1 rank (unless you fight goblins or skaven of course.). Since most elves are fielded in units of 15 your already down one rank and mass, so you might loose by 2. Killing 1 guy out of 20 puts them on the same ground as your elves with 3 ranks and if you hit well enough from shooting and combat you can end up with mass too.

Firebreather
22-12-2007, 19:00
Thanks for the continued responses, everyone! I'm still in the process of coming to grips with the HE army list as a whole, working out possibly themes(or at least semi-themes), writing up army lists, etc ad nauseum. I've also been searching around for a "beginner's guide to High Elves" type article for use with the new book, and have yet to stumble upon much of anything. So, if anyone has a link or suggestion as to where I could possibly find something like this, I'd be grateful.

DragonPup
22-12-2007, 19:47
While I would not fancy myself as an expert, you may want to consider cutting down the Silver Helms to 5 or 6 + the noble. As it stands, you are paying roughly 120 points for only +1 combat resolution. It might be better to drop to 5 make a second unit of 5 Helms with just a musician as a flanker/counter charge unit.

For additional resources, check out http://www.ulthuan.net and their forums.

Good luck!

Dead Man Walking
22-12-2007, 22:10
I agree about the silver helms. On heavy calvary the only rank that really counts is the front rank because they are too expensive individually to spend 120+ points on one rank. Infantry however I like in 4 ranks, which for expensive lists costs 60 points and for cheap guys it costs 20 points a rank. Thats how infantry stay on the table, combat res. Heavy calvary stays by making 2+ armor saves and doing damage on the charge.

Firebreather
22-12-2007, 22:38
Okay great, thanks for the cavalry advice! So, I'll make sure that from now on, I keep my rather expensive HE cavalry in one rank, usually of 5 or 6 models. Sounds good to me, and makes sense! When you think about it in the sense that you're paying around 120 points for a mere +1 combat res, well...yeah, it just makes sense:) Thanks again!

As I said above, I'm working on some more lists, trying out different things, and simply trying to get a feel for what I want out of this army. There's a lot more to it than I thought, honestly!

For now, though, I think I'll take your advice and change the second list around, getting rid of a few Silver Helms and such. Keep an eye here for an updated list. Thanks again everyone!

marv335
22-12-2007, 23:09
I tend to give my Dragon Princes the warbanner for that +1 CR. much cheaper than an extra rank, and less vulnerable to shooting.

Firebreather
22-12-2007, 23:27
Thanks for the tip, marv! If I ever end up with the points, I'll surely give them the War Banner, as I think it would just make them that much closer to a sure thing when it comes to breaking units.

Thanks again, marv! Up next, we have a slight diversion. It involves a bigger army, with a bit of a theme, based on a previous High Elf character. Stay tuned...

Firebreather
22-12-2007, 23:31
So, this is a 2000 point army list I've been toying around with. It is supposed to come from the Caledor region of Ulthuan, and is led by none other than the great Dragon Prince Imrik. This is my first attempt at making a list at this points level, particularly with a massively expensive dragon in it...so be gentle;)

Prince Imrik-
Minaithnir(Star Dragon)
Star Lance
Armour of Caledor
Dragonhorn

Mage-
Level 2
Jewel of the Dusk

Mage-
Level 2
Silver Wand

20 Spearmen-
Sentinel
Musician
Standard Bearer

10 Archers

6 Dragon Princes of Caledor-
Drakemaster
The Amulet of Light
Musician
Standard Bearer

Tiranoc Chariot

Tiranoc Chariot

15 Phoenix Guard-
Keeper of the Flame
The Gem of Courage
Musician
Standard Bearer

Repeater Bolt Thrower

TOTAL-2000pts.

Semi_Bunny
23-12-2007, 00:25
props for taking only one RBT because most people take around 4 at 2000 points. though it wont be as competitive as fielding 4, you'll avoid getting hit in the head with a hardcover rulebook if you only field 1 or 2. you could possibly get rid of one of the chariots and grab and eagle as 2 looks unnecessary for your list. I would also consider changing the phoenix guard to a harder hitting unit like white lions or swordmasters, though that might go out of your theme so its your call there.

Firebreather
23-12-2007, 02:57
Thanks very much for the compliment and suggestions in regards to my Prince Imrik list, Semi_Bunny! It's good to see that I'm not entirely off track.

Okay, so you're suggesting I drop one of the Chariots, and also switch out the Phoenix Guard for something a little more...killy. Done. I think I'll go with a unit of Sword Masters, as they would fairly easily fit in with the background of this army, perhaps being one of the many bands that wander Ulthuan, or the bodyguards of the Sapherian Mage allies in the list. Either way, they fit:)

I do believe I will go ahead and grab a Great Eagle, as their possible uses are quite varied, and I want to play around with the movement phase of my game a little more, learning to use it to my advantage and so on.

Okay, I'm going to make some changes to the list, and I'll post its' revised form as soon as it's done. Thanks for the suggestions!

Firebreather
23-12-2007, 03:04
Okay, the suggested changes worked out even better than I had thought they would, allowing me to save enough points to get some unit upgrades I wanted from the start. Here's the revised list.

Prince Imrik-
Minaithnir(Star Dragon)
Star Lance
Armour of Caledor
Dragonhorn

Mage-
Level 2
Jewel of the Dusk

Mage-
Level 2
Silver Wand

20 Spearmen-
Sentinel
Musician
Standard Bearer

10 Archers

6 Dragon Princes of Caledor-
Drakemaster
The Amulet of Light
Musician
Standard Bearer
War Banner

Tiranoc Chariot

15 Sword Masters of Hoeth-
Bladelord
Musician
Standard Bearer
Banner of Arcane Protection

Repeater Bolt Thrower

Great Eagle

TOTAL-2000pts.

winkypinky
23-12-2007, 12:08
I have a little unuasual suggestion.

Get a halfling hotpot.

It is cheap only 50 points.
It only takes one rare.

And it > ignores armour <
The only real problem your lists faces is units of rock hard infantry. With high saves that dosnt break easy.

For 50 points that problem is solved. If you practice guessing range.

winkypinky
23-12-2007, 12:26
***Dragon Mage of Caledor-
Level 2
Guardian Phoenix
- lore of fire.

Mage-
Level 2
+1 dispel staff

12 Lothern seaguard
Musician

****15 Sword Masters of Hoeth-
Bladelord
Musician
Standard Bearer
War banner

5 Dragon Princes of Caledor-
Musician

Tiranoc Chariot/Shadow warriors. (i would prefer shadow warriors, or 5 reavers with bows and musician if there is the points)

*'**Lupins Fighting cooks (6) + x halflings at 7 pts each.
90+7*x
(x is difined < or =14 and >0, optional and recommended to be no less than 4)

Halfling hotpot
50

TOTAL-1500pts ish.. since i dont have my army book atm.

*remember the fighting cook leader has LD9 and 3 attacks
** Halflings are BS4, these even skirmish.
*** Maybe there isnt points for silverwand, but it take it if there is. Flaming Sword Of Ruin is really good.
**** Maybe if you really wants to get the feel that your are using every option in the New HE book try with white lions, they were really horrible before. And new they are nice. Maybe a smaller unit of these (10-12 + musician) and some minor point cuts across the line would make you able to get an other unit of 12 Sea guard with musician.

If you want to play, disruption with high firepower, a dragon, Rockhard troops across the line, melee power, dragon princes, a lot of magic, template weapons, fast movement, great defence and halflings. In only 1500points.
This might be the army for you.

(and a personal reason to field this army: totally screw those who says HE archers are good and uses them)

winkypinky
23-12-2007, 12:58
And a some quick thoughts on expanding the army:

Above list, with both whitelions and swordmasters and 2 units seaguard.

+1 shadow warrior unit
+1 reaver unit (5 with bows and musician)

+1 Unit DOW haflings
+1 RBT/ DOW cannon
-------------------------------
Btw
+1 big dragon
- 1 mage
= 2 dragons

Firebreather
23-12-2007, 16:19
Wow, thanks for the responses, winkypinky! You've given me quite a bit to consider. Although I'm not sure about fielding DoW units at this point, your idea is duly noted.

I do, however, really like your suggestions, and I think I'm going to try and make a list based on them. Well, sans the Halflings of course;) For now, anyway...

Thanks again, and I'll try and have the list up as soon as I can.

Firebreather
23-12-2007, 16:34
Okay, here's a 1500 point list based on winkypinky's advice. I've got to be honest and say that I really, REALLY like the look of it, and probably wouldn't have thought to come up with some of it without winkypinky's suggestions. Here it is.

Dragon Mage of Caledor-
Level 2
Guardian Phoenix
Silver Wand

Mage-
Level 2
Staff of Sorcery

14 Spearmen-
Sentinel
Musician
Standard Bearer

15 Sword Masters of Hoeth-
Bladelord
The Amulet of Light
Musician
Standard Bearer

5 Dragon Princes of Caledor-
Musician
Standard Bearer
War Banner

Tiranoc Chariot

6 Shadow Warriors

Repeater Bolt Thrower

TOTAL-1497pts.

Now, what I could do if it seems to be lacking in some spots, is drop the Bolt Thrower for now. I would like to have a full command, or even just a Standard Bearer with my Dragon Princes, but I don't know...maybe they'll perform just as good without.

So, what are your thoughts in regards to this list? Wow though, for some reason I'm loving it. It can compete nicely in all phases of the game, and isn't even too bad for numbers in a HE army.

Edit: I've changed the Sea Guard for Spearmen, and bought a standard bearer with the War Banner for the Dragon Princes, just to make them almost a sure thing when it comes to breaking units. I also had enough points to add The Amulet of Light to the Bladelord.

Firebreather
23-12-2007, 16:42
Okay, I've actually switched out the Sea Guard for some Spearmen, and added some of the other things I want. Now it's looking better to me. The above list is edited.