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AFoolProofPlan
21-12-2007, 20:17
If a character does D3 or D6 wound, is it possible for him to kill more than 1 Ogre, Minotaur, etc, when he hits more than once?

So say the character hits 3 times, and wounds all 3 times. Then those 3 wounds are D6, and they all roll 3 or higher. Would that kill 3 models, or just one?

theunwantedbeing
21-12-2007, 20:31
3.
You can only kill as many models as you hit.
1 hit can therefore only kill 1 model, even if you cause more wounds than it has on its profile.

Chaos Undecided
21-12-2007, 20:32
so long as each hit did 3+ wounds then yes it would kill 3 separate 3 wound models.

AFoolProofPlan
21-12-2007, 20:36
Sweet, that's what I wanted to hear.
BUT, isn't it entirely possible to say only one model died since D6 wound only applies after saves and such.
So couldn't you just decide that one model took all 3 hits, and the D6 wound becomes unnecessary?

Jonke
21-12-2007, 20:49
When fighting units of multi-wound creatures with a multi-wound weapon the total amount of wounds caused by the attacker must be removed. Each hit can cuase up to the starting wounds of the model being hit (with a d6 wounds weapon you can do no more than 3 wounds with each hit when fighting ogres), all wounds caused are pooled together and then whole models are removed.

Just as when fighting one-wound models the attacker is supposed to step forward and attack a new target if he strikes down the first one.

AFoolProofPlan
21-12-2007, 20:57
I see. So 3 drops if all 3 wounds roll higher than 2.
Excellent. Now to abuse this against them Ogres

L192837465
21-12-2007, 21:11
that doesnt seem right. you roll after saves, and all saves were taken on one model. therefore you could only kill one multi would critter per attack. so if he has, say, 3 attacks, wounds 3 times, and scores 18 wounds (3 6's), he still only kills 3 ogres, as thats how many attacks he has.

DarkTerror
21-12-2007, 23:52
that doesnt seem right. you roll after saves, and all saves were taken on one model. therefore you could only kill one multi would critter per attack. so if he has, say, 3 attacks, wounds 3 times, and scores 18 wounds (3 6's), he still only kills 3 ogres, as thats how many attacks he has.

Well, how it works exactly is that each multi-wound attack can cause up to however many wounds the model can take. Then at the end the wounds are pooled.

So, for example, 3 wounds were caused and you rolled a 2, 3 and 6. Since the max wounds an ogre can take is 3, the wounds would cap off at 2, 3 and 3. With a total of 8 wounds caused 2 models are removed with 1 wound remaining on an ogre.

Arnizipal
22-12-2007, 00:01
So, for example, 3 wounds were caused and you rolled a 2, 3 and 6. Since the max wounds an ogre can take is 3, the wounds would cap off at 2, 3 and 3. With a total of 8 wounds caused 2 models are removed with 1 wound remaining on an ogre.
Wouldn't that be like this:

First hit: 2 wounds on first Ogre.

Second hit: 3 more wounds on wounded Ogre. One wound inflicted. Ogre slain. Two wounds wasted.

Third hit: 3 wounds inflicted. Second Ogre slain.

There are only three attacks after all, and two of them hit the same Ogre. The multiplied damage per attack cannot be carried over to the next Ogre if the first one is slain. By the second hit the Ogre is effectivly a single wound model, and wound multipliers don't matter anymore.



EDIT: Of course it totally depends on which diceroll you choose to inflict first. If you start off with the two 3's than your version is correct.

DarkTerror
22-12-2007, 01:04
Actually, no it wouldn't work like that, as it's not explicit which models have taken the wounds. For example, if you were to shoot at the unit of ogres before combat, causing 2 wounds and therefore leaving one Ogre with only 1 wound left, you could not place that single wound model out of combat to retain more wounds (meaning that when combat happens whenever you suffer one wound an Ogre dies, you can't force your opponent to cause 3 wounds).

The same thing happens in this combat. Those two wounds first are still just 'floaters' (as I call them) which don't apply to any model in specific.

Gorbad Ironclaw
22-12-2007, 07:13
Wouldn't that be like this:



No, it wouldn't. That is not how things are done in Warhammer. When fighting units you do not attack individual models, you attack the unit. So it's irrelevant in what order the number of wounds are scored, you simply count them all up after all attacks in this initiative step have been resolved and remove however many that is.

It's no different when fighting units of multi-wound models than it is fighting single-wound models. Your version would only be used if you were fighting nothing but character models, and ogres are not per default characters.

T10
22-12-2007, 09:43
p. 31 Hits Inflicting Multiple Wounds.

The editing is a bit confusing if you don't read the entire section, but essentially it first tells us to add up all the multiplied wounds, and later tells us that models cannot lose more wounds than they have on their profile (this bit is informally called "capping").

However, once wounds have been multiplied, capped and added together we know the total number of wounds suffered by the unit.

p.31 Multiple Wound Casualties

This section describes how those wounds are to be applied to the unit. There is no further capping of wounds.

-T10

Chiungalla
22-12-2007, 10:13
Just to get this right.
If I fire a boldthrower into the flank of an unit of 3 ogres, that have allready lost 2 wounds.

I succed at the first to wound roll, and make 2 wounds.
I inflict two wounds, remove one ogre, and make another to wound roll.
If I make at least two wounds with this one, I will get a thirs roll?

Wow, never played it this way.

DeathlessDraich
22-12-2007, 10:23
So say the character hits 3 times, and wounds all 3 times. Then those 3 wounds are D6, and they all roll 3 or higher. Would that kill 3 models, or just one?

1) Determine the *maximum number of casualties* first using this:
The total number of successful hits (or unsaved and unmultiplied wound) = *maximum number of casualties*.

2) Add up all the successful wounds after rolling D6 and distribute them among the *maximum number of casualties* so that *as many casualties are removed*.
e.g. 3 wounds from 3 hits - 1 Ogre slain
5 wounds from 3 hits - 1 slain and 2 wounds on the unit
7 wounds from 3 hits - 2 slain and 1 wound on the unit
18 wounds from 3 hits - 3 slain and 9 wounds wasted

T10
22-12-2007, 10:51
Just to get this right.
If I fire a boldthrower into the flank of an unit of 3 ogres, that have allready lost 2 wounds.

I succed at the first to wound roll, and make 2 wounds.
I inflict two wounds, remove one ogre, and make another to wound roll.
If I make at least two wounds with this one, I will get a thirs roll?

Wow, never played it this way.

Yes.

The bolt thrower needs a bit of consideration as it requires that you slay each model in turn as it proceeds through the ranks, which means that you need to work out wether the wounds caused warrant removing a model on a step by step basis.

By your example...

The initial hit causes two wounds. This would normaly would not be sufficient to slay the model, but thanks to the "carry-over" wounds on the unit, one model must be removed and the unit retains one carry-over wound.

Since the bolt thrower managed to kill a (the?) model, the hit penetrates to the next rank, dealing another two wounds and causing another model to be removed in the same way as the initial rank.

The hit penetrates to the third rank and so on, but there are no further carry-over wounds avaialble.

-T10

T10
22-12-2007, 11:02
e.g. 3 wounds from 3 hits - 1 Ogre slain
5 wounds from 3 hits - 1 slain and 2 wounds on the unit
7 wounds from 3 hits - 2 slain and 1 wound on the unit
18 wounds from 3 hits - 3 slain and 9 wounds wasted

An unnecessarilly vague example since you do not include a break-down of the individual wound rolls.

Assuming a sufficiently large unit to absorb all the casualties, and assuming 6 unsaved wounds rolling 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 wounds resepectively, this cap as follows according to the targets' profile:

Wounds 1: Cap at 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 and 1, 6 models removed, 6 wounds to combat resolution.
Wounds 2: Cap at 1, 2, 2, 2, 2 and 2, 5 models removed and 1 wound carry-over, 11 wounds to combat resolution.
Wounds 3: Cap at 1, 2, 3, 3, 3 and 3, 5 models removed, 15 wounds to combat resolution.
Wounds 4: Cap at 1, 2, 3, 4, 4 and 4, 4 models removed and 2 wound carry-over, 18 wounds to combat resolution.

-T10

Urgat
22-12-2007, 11:44
Yes.

The bolt thrower needs a bit of consideration as it requires that you slay each model in turn as it proceeds through the ranks, which means that you need to work out wether the wounds caused warrant removing a model on a step by step basis.

By your example...

The initial hit causes two wounds. This would normaly would not be sufficient to slay the model, but thanks to the "carry-over" wounds on the unit, one model must be removed and the unit retains one carry-over wound.

Since the bolt thrower managed to kill a (the?) model, the hit penetrates to the next rank, dealing another two wounds and causing another model to be removed in the same way as the initial rank.

The hit penetrates to the third rank and so on, but there are no further carry-over wounds avaialble.

-T10

Why would the additional wound be carried over to the next model? If a bolt thrower wounds 6 times the first guy of a rank, if he has 1 wound, you don't carry over the wounds and remove 5 more guys, do you? I don't see why it would be different for a multi wounded creature, that would actually be a severe disavantage to have more than one wound.

theunwantedbeing
22-12-2007, 12:16
The additional wound is not carried over.
You simply remove a full ogre and the one who has 2 wounds left is not hit that particular time.

This is because you remove whole models where possible.

DeathlessDraich
22-12-2007, 16:45
An unnecessarilly vague example since you do not include a break-down of the individual wound rolls.

Assuming a sufficiently large unit to absorb all the casualties, and assuming 6 unsaved wounds rolling 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 wounds resepectively, this cap as follows according to the targets' profile:

Wounds 1: Cap at 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 and 1, 6 models removed, 6 wounds to combat resolution.
Wounds 2: Cap at 1, 2, 2, 2, 2 and 2, 5 models removed and 1 wound carry-over, 11 wounds to combat resolution.
Wounds 3: Cap at 1, 2, 3, 3, 3 and 3, 5 models removed, 15 wounds to combat resolution.
Wounds 4: Cap at 1, 2, 3, 4, 4 and 4, 4 models removed and 2 wound carry-over, 18 wounds to combat resolution.

-T10

Yes, you've explained it precisely.

Urgat
22-12-2007, 19:04
The additional wound is not carried over.
You simply remove a full ogre and the one who has 2 wounds left is not hit that particular time.

This is because you remove whole models where possible.

Ah, sorry, got it wrong then.