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sergentzimm
21-12-2007, 22:38
Hello all. I really love the chaos warrior models and I want to make an army that focuses on them. I want to have at least two blocks of them, possibly one with a few supporting units.

So how would you all build an army around the chaos warriors?

themandudeperson
22-12-2007, 00:42
I always thought they would work well using 1-2 units of chaos warriors dead center with a unit of chaos knights or marauder horsemen on each flank and a hell cannon behind them. With the left over points take a couple units of screamers or furies and spend the rest on magic defense(some marks of khorne would suffice if you don't want a caster), a big skullcracker or two and whatever looks cool. Use the calvary to try and force your opponent in the center of the board while you march your warriors right at them while your hell cannon targets any units packed together and your flyers terrorize your opponent's archers and warmachines. Normally, unsupported, your warriors make a huge and slow target. But with your other units tying up and shooting the hell out of your opponent's forces while they move up they'll get there just in time to put the final blows into your opponent... if the dice are with you..

Guy Fawkes
22-12-2007, 06:17
You should use them as you would use any other powerful, expensive, slow, killy infantry unit. They'll need support to win combats, but by taking a lot of small units or a few bigger (like 20 man) units, and key support, such as Marauder Horsemen, you should do alright if you pick your combats and keep your warriors from taking multiple turns of shooting. You might want some Furies or Screamers (or Ambushing Beast Herds) to tie up enemy shooters and warmachines, a Chariot to practically autobreak anything on the charge when combined with Knights or Warriors and get flank charges against targets tied up to the front. You might also want to consider Marauders to help keep yourself from being totally outnumbered or going with a Hellcannon and Tzeentch to shoot and magic the enemy, forcing them to come to you. The build in this case would be a Tzeentch Champion or Lord, as many Sorcerers as you can load up on, and possibly another Champion depending on your taste. This would make your army smaller, but you could force them to come to you where a few blocks of warriors backed up by other troops would cut down their inferior soldiers.

If you're building an army around Chaos Warriors though (and it's legal where you're at), you can't really go wrong with the Archaon's Horde List from Storm of Chaos. Free command upgrades for Warriors and Marauders at a certain size, multiple Chosen (though I would not recommend that for your already outnumbered army), and can take the Mark of Chaos Undivided on Marauders. You do lose daemons and beasts though, so it really depends on personal choice.

Bloodknight
22-12-2007, 06:56
I would take two blocks of undivided troops with the Banner of the Gods. It is expensive but means that your center won't run, not even from a Bretonnian charge. You might want Slaaneshi magic with that.

Dark_Mage99
22-12-2007, 09:06
Get them into combat, and they will work all on their own. If you equip them with a shield, that's a 2+ save in combat for chosen warriors, or 3+ for regular - both of which are outstanding. If you flank charge with anything at all with unit strength 5 or more, the warriors will take care of the rest with ease.

sulla
22-12-2007, 19:20
I would take two blocks of undivided troops with the Banner of the Gods. It is expensive but means that your center won't run, not even from a Bretonnian charge. You might want Slaaneshi magic with that.

Yup, I would think the banner should be the first piece you select for your army, then suppport, then make the blocks as large as you can afterwards. Buying large warrior units first means you may end up with not a lot in your army and no way to dictate the battle.

sergentzimm
23-12-2007, 02:31
Great ideas so far. I will have to try out the banner of the gods. Really makes the core rock hard.

snyggejygge
25-12-2007, 10:53
If you play Khorne a unit of 18 warriors equipped w. halberds, shields & Banner of rage is a decent block, they have 13 S4/5 (depending on what weapon you use, sometimes HW & shield is better), either a 3+ or 5+ save, can re-roll breaktests & is always frenzied. So a multi task unit which can both hurt the enemy & hold up annoying units as well as stand their ground from a cavalry charge.

Another option Ive seen to be used in a decent way is 20 Warriors of Slaanesh w. shields only, give them the Raptuorus Standard, then laugh when the opponent charges them, he will now hit them on 5+, that combined w. T4 & a 3+ save means that he will at most get 1-2 kills, most units will not kill any warrior at all! The static CR & the 6 S4 attacks should be enough to win the combat by a point or 2.

Banner of the gods is a good option as the guys above said.

Another option is to just use them as support units, pretty much like Empire detachments for your marauders, w. GWs & mark of Khorne, a unit of 12 will lash out w. 13 S6 attacks, that is enough to scare most opponents!

Sadly most of these options are quite expensive, warriors really need to get cheaper to be worthwhile, but the models kick ass so I still use them!

W0lf
26-12-2007, 18:13
Chaos warriors only dont work as they dont have 2 attacks.

Khorne warriors have two attacks.

Catch my drift?

logan054
26-12-2007, 20:24
I tend to find the best options as a Khorne player are either 15 warriors with banner of rage or warbanner with halberds (sometimes great weapons), chosen is never ever worth the investment unless your playing a big game and have points to burn.

L192837465
26-12-2007, 20:50
ok, warriors can work amazingly well without being chosen or marked Khorne (aka: handing a leash to your opponent)

1. make your block 25 strong. yes its almost a quarter of your points. no i don't care. give them shields and full command. the rest of your points should go to small units of hitty skirmishers or flyers. a hellcannon fits very nicely into this. note: DO NOT TAKE KNIGHTS

the reason for this: fire diversion. your opponant is going to be terrified of that unit. they will shoot it to smitherines. chariots, furies, marauder fast cav, and a dragon can back you up and nail everything to a wall as he's completely ignored the rest of your army. yes, 405 points is a lot. is it worth losing to win games? absolutely. if he ignores it, they hit his lines like fire on kindling. if he shoots them to death, he left 1600+ points to massacre the rest of his own army.


STOP saying "warriors are teh suck because they only have one attack". they're 14pts a pop for a reason.

Axis
27-12-2007, 05:34
the reason for this: fire diversion. your opponant is going to be terrified of that unit. they will shoot it to smitherines. chariots, furies, marauder fast cav, and a dragon can back you up and nail everything to a wall as he's completely ignored the rest of your army. yes, 405 points is a lot. is it worth losing to win games? absolutely. if he ignores it, they hit his lines like fire on kindling. if he shoots them to death, he left 1600+ points to massacre the rest of his own army.


Of all the things you list to 'back up' this expensive unit i find all of them more frightening than the warriors (well not necessarily frightening but would cause me more problems tactically) and would devote my attention to taking them out. Sure they might hit hardish but it'll take a while to hit and you can easily distract them. A single model or skirmishers restricting their march means they take 4+ turns to get into combat, so really you've got a quarter of your army doing nothing while the rest takes on all the opponents army.

If you want a big unit of infantry you might as well get marauders. They do a very good job themselves for half the cost.

Selsaral
28-12-2007, 01:02
IMHO with slow infantry types of units in my experience it's all about how well you bring the fight to them. Set all your units up so that pursuit and overrun etc always leads to your warriors. Bring lots of units who can die up front but control charges and maneuver pursuers (for chaos I guess we are talking about warhounds, beast herds, chaos spawn, marauder horsemen, furies etc). Bring powerful psychology protection so they will be there when you finally need them (mark undivided is pretty damn good for example - a perfect match for the Helm of Many Eyes and stubborn banner). Don't let them get flanked. Have something handy to flank a unit who finally charges then.

I also always screen them, assuming all enemy shooters aren't on a hill or something. At least for the first turn in case you don't go first. A beast herd is perfect for this.

sergentzimm
28-12-2007, 15:48
My current list is looking like three blocks of 15, two beast herd screens and some beast chariots and maurader horsemen or dogs to protect the flanks. I like the screening that the beast herds provide, I just wish it was easier to redirect with em.

bluebugs
29-12-2007, 15:15
I was thinking in a tzeentch list, to have a couple decent casters, a good block
(15-20) warriors with MoT(and that banner that has a magic missle), A couple units of horrors with flamers, a couple firewyrms, small units of marauders with flails, warhounds and maybe a hellcannon.

One could just park it with a decent line of warriors, and force the enemy to come to you. Throw spell after spell after bound spell at your oupponet and then when he actually reaches you, charge. Even the firewyrms and flamers will go forward and take out a good lot.

logan054
29-12-2007, 15:50
Chaos warrior lists can work but it really depends on the kinda army you up against, i used to use a 3 x 15 warrior setup and great success with it, i found the key was supporting units. It was key to take spawn to guard against flyers and skirmishers, beast herds for missile protection, furies to take out archers, cannons, wizards and minotaurs + knights for some hard hitting flankers.

Its far easier to do this with khorne however as they are far less reliant on static combat res and characters as you can usually get away with just a exalted in the army (sometimes two).

W0lf
29-12-2007, 20:44
1. make your block 25 strong. yes its almost a quarter of your points. no i don't care. give them shields and full command. the rest of your points should go to small units of hitty skirmishers or flyers. a hellcannon fits very nicely into this. note: DO NOT TAKE KNIGHTS

and those 25 warriors will still be broken and cut down by a unit of heavy cavalry or elite infatry that charge them. This idea is retarded... do you even play fantasy?

Oh and dont take chaos knights.... erm yep, deffinatly retarded.

Follow this advice and you wont be a chaos player for long ;)


I was thinking in a tzeentch list, to have a couple decent casters, a good block
(15-20) warriors with MoT(and that banner that has a magic missle), A couple units of horrors with flamers, a couple firewyrms, small units of marauders with flails, warhounds and maybe a hellcannon.

sounds nice... ill assume this is a 4k game then?

1. never take warriors that arnt chosen in a Tzeentch list.
2. take Gor banner, re-roll panic is vital on such an expensive unit (they will have a 170pt+ character with them...)
3. 'couple units of horrors' - seriously dont bother.... no really, dont.
4. Go read the rules for the helcannon. Not only is it stupidly expensive and takes 2 rare slots it can also misfire and wound every wizard on the table.. in a tzeentch army?

Get yourself a decent Tzeentch lord and your left with 1500 pts in a 2k army.

Have fun getting your list in...

Id like to field a lizardmen army with a 2nd gen slaan a couple of units of saurus, 2 stegadons and several units of kroxigor all backed up by hordes of skinks and even more saurus...

We can all dream.

sulla
29-12-2007, 23:38
My current list is looking like three blocks of 15, two beast herd screens and some beast chariots and maurader horsemen or dogs to protect the flanks. I like the screening that the beast herds provide, I just wish it was easier to redirect with em.

read the 7th ed general FAQ. When skirmishers flee, the vector is from the closest skirmisher to the centre of the enemy unit charginging... so make a guy on the outside flank of the skirmishers the closest guy and flee away from the unit you are screening preventing them from being charged...

Putty
30-12-2007, 02:28
chaos warriors only work in an army that is over 2000 points.

any lower and your army is seriously undermanned.

C.W need alot of screens as they are slow (M4) and pack as much punch as Dwarven core units.

The whole problem with them is their point cost. they are overpriced for their stats when compared to their nearest equlivants in other armies. you might think that they are *just* 2 - 4 points more than other elite class units but these points add up when you stack them up in 3 x 5 ranks and give outfit them with additional equipment.

even with marauders and other units to support them, C.W usually end up as a tarpit becoz their stats are too similar to other elite class rank & file units. You end up with a stalemate that your opponent eventually edges out because:

1) his unit has more special rules
2) his unit is bigger
3) your unit of khorne warriors lost combat (hence lose frenzy) the moment they get into combat because the opposition unit is:

3i) bigger in numbers (prolly have 1 or 2 more ranks than you)
3ii) ALSO have T4, shields, S4
3iii) your opponent has already eaten your screening units and preparing to charge your flanks .

There you go... C.W... over priced units that lose combat even before getting into combat.

Irritating or what?

BTW: I use them C.Ws too. Just for the cool factor. I know they are rubbish in real life.

catbarf
30-12-2007, 02:46
You need troops to engage the light stuff and leave the juicy targets open. If you were to just send them into my lines, I'd be splitting my sides with laughter as I feed you a unit of 50 Gnoblars.

They're slow. When they hit, you need them to do a ton of damage or you'll be significantly behind.

bluebugs
30-12-2007, 22:27
@ W0lf. dude, you are way too critical. First, your calling people retarded. Now that's just not cool. Second, My suggestion was just that, a suggestion. The hellcannon was an idea that I have never tried and it was to get the whole "stand back and shoot" point across.

This thread is called "how to make chaos warriors work" not "how to make chaos warriors uber killy". Certain people want to use them for fluff reasons or because they are really cool looking models and threads like this help. But saying they "suck always take knights" is just flaming and unnecessary.

Guy Fawkes
31-12-2007, 00:47
The problem with going a Tzeentch "Come to me or get blasted" army is that if you want to get enough blasting to get another army to come to you, you lose the Warriors theme and are stuck without a counterattack unit (barring a few small units, a couple Chariots, or the Chaos characters themselves). Full Tzeentch armies are notoriously small and going that route basically means you are giving on the topic of this thread: "How to make Chaos Warriors Work" because Chaos Warriors, being as expensive as they are, can't share a theme with a Tzeentch "gunline" unfortunately.

A Tzeentch Lord of Chaos on a Disc is a whopping 395 points - and of course you'll want to max out on his 100 point magical item allowance and get him a halberd, and by himself he'll be stopped by cheap dispel scrolls - so lots of units with the Mark of Tzeentch and supporting casters and you can't get much else - it simply isn't feasible. A Hellcannon is 320 points if you max out on Demonic Gifts or 270 if you buy it blank - although the Hellcannon can of course draw fire and "fire your troops in," and is only about 30% of the army, and so can share power.

One army list that could be feasible is taking a cheap Tzeentch champion (yes, Cheap Tzeentch is an oxymoron, but go as barebones as possible - on foot with only the magic items needed) to get access to the Mark of Tzeentch, but keep an undivided general if you want, say, Khorne Warriors. Still too expensive, in my opinion. Or, go with as many Undivided Sorcerers as you can pack in as cheap as possible. If you fill up on Sorcerers with full equipment allowance (and the obligatory upgrades to lvl. 2 and 4) on foot you're in 880 points for 12 power dice (before you account for the Power Familiars and stuff you bought with your total 250 points of magical equipment allowance, etc...), and you can take the Lores of Fire, Slaanesh, Nurgle, Shadows, and Death, (some of) which lend themselves to a more "gunline, come to me or be annihilated" army than Tzeentch magic does (although you can still take it on Champions). Considering the Mark of Tzeentch is only 20 points for Chaos Warriors, you could min/max and get lots of 12-man units, with the Mark, hold them back and protect them with cover until you can get yourself a countercharge. Unfortunately Tzeentch is rather susceptible to panic, having no way to negate Psychology, so this will be important. If you are frugal, you might be able to slide in a Hellcannon and still have 900-ish points to spend on your army, fairly good for a Magic Chaos army, but a little low for a base around Chaos Warriors. Still, you can cram in a few units of Warriors or one or two big units, and add in some dirt cheap chariots or beast herds to help support the blocks. You will rely alot on facing heavily depleted units, having panic run through the opponent's army and having units come at you piecemeal, but I think it can work. Plus, you'd still have quite a small army, although opponents might think you cheesy for taking lots of Tzeentch marks but no Tzeentch characters (Small armies are good when Chaos Warriors are the most expensive plastic infantry models in terms of a money to models ratio.) I think it would be far more strategically challenging than Empire or Dwarfen gunlines and be fairly fun to play. Plus, if you already have some Chaos, all you need to do is a buy two or three blisters of Sorcerers.

Of course, if you want to bring the fight to them, Undivided, Slaanesh (cheap and ItP) or Khorne (extra killy, and frenzy isn't as bad of a drawback when you're whole army is frenzied, plus extra dispel dice mean you spend more points on your warriors, not weedy scroll caddies or characters to add killiness to your units) is probably the way to go. I'd say Khorne is your best bet if you want to go this route.

I hope I helped, although keep in mind, armies that focus on core elite infantry will and do scale horribly in small-points games. So you should either proxy your army selection or go whole hog and get 2k, because at 1k, you'll have too few units and little support (Surging forward Warrior Army) or too few characters and marks to draw the enemy in close and still be able to buy Warriors (Tzeentch or Sorcerer counterattack army). In any case, the best advice is to buy what you like, fluffwise or modelwise, and build a list including them, so have fun.