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English 2000
22-12-2007, 00:56
Hi All,
After about 1.5-2 years away from 40k I find myself getting interested in playing again. I'm considering all infantry guard.

How do they do generally? Are they competitive or non-viable?
Viewed as cheesy or annoying, or relatively balanced?

Bloodknight
22-12-2007, 00:59
It's doable and one of the more competitive builds of the Guard because it does away with the unreliablity of tanks. In general people play a lot of drop troops and /or infiltrators to make it work.
Drop troops armies are in my experience generally viewed as slightly annoying but most people do not complain because the Guard is probably the army which is hardest to cheese out (and does not reach the same level of cheese other armies can).

Splagbot
22-12-2007, 01:49
Well I play an all infantry Guard army and have done for quite some time, now they're certainly not an easy army to play with as you have to do without the ordnance that most Guard armies rely on, however this can be countered by the gratuitous use of heavy weapons platoons and having heavy weapons in a high proportion of your squads, I also use a lot of Stormtroopers to add backbone to my army (a 4+ save Guardsman cannot be underestimated).

Painting wise they're not for the faint hearted as they will generally have a high model count, so only get them if you're willing to put in serious man hours grinding away at generic soldiers with very little variation from man to man.

SharpSilver
22-12-2007, 02:02
I think All Infantry guard armies can work, and Games Workshop even made the Cadian All Infantry Company for those wanting to too.

1 Command Squad, 2 Cadian Officers, 120 Cadian Shock Troops, 12 Cadian Special Weapons and 6 Cadian Heavy Weapons Squads, perfect for Apocalypse and thats 6 Squads of 20, with 1 Special Weapon Squad for Each Squad of 20, and 1 Heavy weapon squad for each 20 too. You've got your Anti-Tank troops, Command, and Enough Cannon Fodder Guard to shake a stick at : )

I'm considering buying this actually, saves a good amount of £££ too

Winimperial
22-12-2007, 02:10
I used to have an all infantry force of some sorts. It proved very difficult to use so I just ended up going with a more standard force. Its especially hard if your opponent pulls out an armoured compny, which happened to me a few times and resulted in me getting rolled over becuse of lack of anti-tank weapons I brought.

Splagbot
22-12-2007, 02:16
The Cadian company is actually pretty well formed, it's got everything you need in there for an all infantry army, all you need to do with is add the exotic units like Stormtroopers, Ogryns, Commissars etc...

Once you've got that you're ready to roll, you of course have to have the money to buy it in the first place, which right now I haven't.

Feor
22-12-2007, 02:25
I think it sounds cool. Let us know how it turns out in 3 or 4 years when you finish painting them. :p

catbarf
22-12-2007, 03:38
If you use the IAV Vraks Renegades list, you get quite a few useful things like artillery strikes and minefields. They go a long ways towards addressing the shortcomings of an all-infantry list.

EVIL INC
22-12-2007, 03:54
I think All Infantry guard armies can work, and Games Workshop even made the Cadian All Infantry Company for those wanting to too.

I got this deal and actually only paid $329 and some change for it instead of the $350 plus shipping you get from GW.and that included shipping. Very worth it although as slow as I paint, will take me forever to get them done. I have a few of the heavy weapons painted and 8 men finished and a few more started on. :rolleyes:

Pooky
22-12-2007, 04:36
I think it could work in games of over 1500 points...

And I also think that an all infantry IG army is sweet for the following reasons (in no particular order):
- The enemy will find it hard to infiltrate behind your lines since your troops will be everywhere
- If the enemy assaults your lines (and you manage to hold) you will have so many return attacks next turn when the X number of squads around counter charge
- You have a psychological advantage over the enemy with heaps of troops (I played a IG player at 1500 points and he had an all infantry army + 2 Hellhounds. I was freaked out when I put 10 marines down and he ended up putting down something like 30 troops as a single troops choice. After deployment I looked at his side of the board then mine. My 30 troops and 4 vehicles looked very small compared to his something like 150 troops and tanks. He also packed more heavy weapons that God...)
- You can pack more heavy weapons than God (as I mentioned in the last point)
- Even if an individual squad/ platoon is blown away then you still have more bodies to fill the holes

You may have the following problems with an all infantry army:
- Vehicles/ troops that don't need LOS (eg SM Whirlwinds) because you can't draw fire on them with most of your heavy weapons
- Savy enemies will hug cover until they can assalt you (since they don't want more firepower than God coming down on them). You need to position your troops so that they is a killing ground between you and the enemy so they can't use cover or at very leasy deny the enemy using it.

English 2000
22-12-2007, 06:16
I think All Infantry guard armies can work, and Games Workshop even made the Cadian All Infantry Company for those wanting to too.

1 Command Squad, 2 Cadian Officers, 120 Cadian Shock Troops, 12 Cadian Special Weapons and 6 Cadian Heavy Weapons Squads, perfect for Apocalypse and thats 6 Squads of 20, with 1 Special Weapon Squad for Each Squad of 20, and 1 Heavy weapon squad for each 20 too. You've got your Anti-Tank troops, Command, and Enough Cannon Fodder Guard to shake a stick at : )

I'm considering buying this actually, saves a good amount of £££ too

That is exactly the boxed set I am considering buying. Does anyone know (roughly) how many points it is?

ie: can I get the standard 1700 point list from it or will I need more?


Thanks for all the advice guys - painting is a daunting prospect and I will be scouring the web for a quick and easy way to paint this army if I end up doing it.

Do they still have those demo charge teams where three guys run up and toss what is essentially a battle cannon round at the enemy? I loved those guys back in the day.

kanluwen
22-12-2007, 06:27
You will definitely be able to get at least 1700 points. Just remember--
Infantry Companies=Heavy Weapons Platoons. Don't bother with splitting the heavy weapons into squads, you can get alot more damage right there with dedicated platoons and a few squads kept back to guard them.

Bloodknight
22-12-2007, 07:37
Yep, that box easily makes 1700 points, in fact IIRC it is closer to 2K.

elphabea
22-12-2007, 14:03
I do all an all infantry Steel Legion army. The only vehicles are 3 "Eggs on Legs" Sentinals. I usually have close to 200 or more troops in the army depending on the points. It is like swinging a sledge hammer at your opponent. The bad side is if you miss with the swing he is into your gunline and rolling up the units in HTH. When you field so many troops your whole side of the table is full. When an opponent wins HTH it is usually easy for him to consolidate into another unit and just roll up your line if they are good CC troops. I usually take minimal wargear and take more troops instead. This means my guys are even lamer than normal in HTH. Overall though I love the army and play it because I love it. I usually win big or lose big.

shutupSHUTUP!!!
22-12-2007, 14:17
I try out all infantry lists occasionally. I usually stop and add vehicles because they get frustrating in pick-up games. The main drawback for me was that you only have to take a tank out of your case and put in on the table and that's that, but you need to do it 10-20 times for the equivalent points in infantry. And then pack them up again. It gets old, but was fun the first few times whilst it was novel.

Easy E
22-12-2007, 15:30
Thanks for all the advice guys - painting is a daunting prospect and I will be scouring the web for a quick and easy way to paint this army if I end up doing it.

May I suggest dipping.

Ravenous
22-12-2007, 15:35
Just give them the camo cloaks doctrine( +1 to cover saves)

Most tables are 4+ and 5+ terrian, 150 models with 3+ and 4+ cover save will likely make your oppenent want to tear his hair out.

Captin Korea!
22-12-2007, 15:36
I use pure troops for my Vraks Renegades, 200 of the workers for 800 points :D

505
22-12-2007, 15:41
I used to ruin standard and then cnahged to all infantry. I love it.

remember:
1) you will lose people.
2) people are ment to die
3) you will lose people
4) numbers count

when super killy guys get stuck in 2 things workd

A) swamp the enemy and (ensure he allocates attacks Ive had chaplain and assult marines allocate to a squad that happened to have only 2 guys left :D) (you need to know whos in what squad)
B)pull back enough so when they overrun they can't get into combat and shoot the bejeezers out of them (only works if your turn is next and you actually run)

my advice I put Lascannons and mortars in their own squads (HQ or Heavy weapon plattons) so the can shoot at the big things and heavy bolters and autocannons in the squads. I learned that if my Lascannons are in squads I either wast a powerfull shot on little guys (that the rest are shooting at) or I wast 9 lasguns cause the cannon is shooting at tanks.

use either a Vox netwark or vetern sgts to get your leadership. if you use both your being reduntant

catbarf
22-12-2007, 16:15
I use pure troops for my Vraks Renegades, 200 of the workers for 800 points :D

It's unfortunate that they suck horribly. Ld5, can't be joined by a commissar, don't benefit from Ld bubbles.

UncleCrazy
22-12-2007, 16:28
My IG please note No Russes or Bassis, Just one HellHound (cause it is cool) and 4 sentinals. 1500

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff183/unclecrazy/IGarmy.jpg

Takitron
22-12-2007, 16:30
a friend of mine runs an all infantry gun line guard army. it is possibly the most powerful list in the game. Conscripts, commissars, and standards... lots of las... Its almost unbeatable.

freddythebig
22-12-2007, 16:44
I play COD games fairly regularly and like to use an infantry guard list where they will benefit from loads of cover.
Take the sewer rat strategem and having your squads popping up all over the board can be a lot of fun.

imperial_scholar
22-12-2007, 19:35
No has mentioned Vets. Do they suck that much that no-one uses them?

kdh88
22-12-2007, 20:22
No has mentioned Vets. Do they suck that much that no-one uses them?

Other way around; they're such a no-brainer that people think they don't need to be mentioned, especially when combined with Drop Troops. 5 Vets with 3 meltaguns are almost guarenteed to destroy a tank (less than 4% chance to miss all three shots, and an average armor penetration of 15) and cost a grand total of 75 points, or you you can get 4 BS 4 plasma weapons for 85.

Hicks
22-12-2007, 20:35
It works, but it's a bit dull. I find that the lack of ordinance shows a bit when facing MEQs, but if you can avoid early close combat and give the opponent at least a round of flashlight hell you can still perform well.

It's funny however to watch the opponent's face when he realises that it will be almost impossible to kill that much infantry in 6 turns.

Commissar Bob
23-12-2007, 00:20
The one thing that is utter death to all infantry Guard however is deepstriking monoliths. My roomate plays 'crons and whenever his monliths drops into the middle of a guard gunline unleashing d6 shots at everything nearby it really does hurt quite a lot. I've lost roughly a hundred men to that and running away from it in just 2 turns. The d6 shots destroy those tiny command squads you rely on to keep your army in the battle and then cause enough casualties for the regular squads to take to their heels.

Commissar Bob

English 2000
23-12-2007, 01:47
I bought the IG Codex today - here is an idea of what my list will look like:

A few points about the list:
~I know everyone says Mortars suck - they are just too cool looking not to have.
~I have tried to put lascannons in the squads that will lose the least amount of shots when shooting at tanks.
~I wanted lascannons in all of my command squads because I know the AT squads will be target #1 for most of my opponents.
~ I have 7 points to spare - maybe bolters on the officers?
~ I think vet sarges are better than Vox
~ Demo Charge team simply because I think it's awesome - reminds me of the sticky bombs in Saving Private Ryan - I'm thinking perhaps I'll have the guy throwing a kitchen sink instead of a bomb simply because I find it funny.
~ Rough Riders will go tank hunting or be used as a counter attack when the enemy charges my lines.
~ I only put sharpshooters in the lascannon AT teams because I honestly think it's wasted elsewhere
~ Infantry squads are primarily there to take out other infantry - auto cannons and plasma can be used on vehicles in a pinch though
~ I chose cameoline over carapace because I can get more men and I think it will be more useful overall.

Let me know what you guys think of the list.

Senior Officer Lascannon Cameoline 90
Anti Tank Squad 3 Lascannons Cameoline Sharpshooters 130
Anti Tank Squad 3 Lascannons Cameoline Sharpshooters 130
Mortar Squad 3 Mortars Cameoline 90
Special Weapons Squad Demo Charge Cameoline 55

Junior Officer Lascannon Cameoline 75
Infantry Squad Heavy Bolter Plasma Gun Vet Sarge Cameoline 96
Infantry Squad Heavy Bolter Plasma Gun Vet Sarge Cameoline 96

Junior Officer Lascannon Cameoline 75
Infantry Squad Auto Cannon Plasma Gun Vet Sarge Cameoline 101
Infantry Squad Auto Cannon Plasma Gun Vet Sarge Cameoline 101

Junior Officer Lascannon Cameoline 75
Infantry Squad Heavy Bolter Plasma Gun Vet Sarge Cameoline 96
Infantry Squad Heavy Bolter Plasma Gun Vet Sarge Cameoline 96

Junior Officer Lascannon Cameoline 75
Infantry Squad Auto Cannon Plasma Gun Vet Sarge Cameoline 101
Infantry Squad Auto Cannon Plasma Gun Vet Sarge Cameoline 101

10 Rough Riders Vet Sarge 8 Hunting Lances 2 Melta Guns 130
10 Rough Riders Vet Sarge 8 Hunting Lances 2 Melta Guns 130

1843 Total
11 Lascannon
4 Auto Cannon
4 Heavy Bolter
3 Morters
8 Plasma
4 Meltas
1 Demo Charge

Doctrines:
Cameoline
Rough Riders
Special Weapon Teams
Heavy Weapon Teams
Sharpshooters

149 Models

Filthy O'Bedlam
23-12-2007, 02:02
It's a great list IMO. Very Characterful and tactically it's a beast (so long as you don't mind moving dozens upon dozens of Gaurdsmen every turn. BS 3 will screw you sometimes, but then there are the turns where, to quote Pete Haines "The probabilites come crashing back down" and it seems you can't miss.

Go for it.

Cheers, Filthy

English 2000
23-12-2007, 02:08
so long as you don't mind moving dozens upon dozens of Gaurdsmen every turn

Moving? What is this moving thing you speak of?:p

SharpSilver
23-12-2007, 02:14
I think All-Infantry guard can work, but you need to cope with a lack of anti-tank units, unless you've got Heavy Weapons Squads, but then again, you'll still be losing quite a few men.

Sometimes though, the overwhelming ranks of dozens of Lasguns can overwhelm even the most elite foes.

It's like trying to shine hundreds of little Torches at a Daemon Prince, eventually It will die, even if Lasgun's are not the best weapons.

Anyone for Cannon Fodder?

Acheron,Bringer of Terror
23-12-2007, 02:53
just use some counter attack units like:
-Rough Riders [good unit]
-Seraphin Squad and Cannoness [WH allies but very useful in hand of skilled player
-Grey Knights [medicorate unit with nice mid-range firepower and some protection - shrouding - and quite good in CC]

Splagbot
23-12-2007, 03:32
Heavy weapons platoons can fill the gap left by tanks quite easily, all you need is a good mix of anti-tank and anti-personel weapons and you're fine it's just a matter of getting the mix right, add into that some special weapons squads packed out with Melta Guns and Plasma Guns for things like CoD and you're more than fine.

Trust me on this, I've always used infantry Guard and it works, very well.

Laurela
23-12-2007, 05:44
I originally started an all infantry IG army and quit after 1000 points, I got so tired of having to paint the same models over and over again. However, in that 1000 points they were fairly effective, so it is definitely doable.
Good luck

Filthy O'Bedlam
23-12-2007, 06:22
Moving? What is this moving thing you speak of?:p

Touche' :)

Objectives will occasionally have to be taken though. Watching the IG move is kind of like watching groups of sparrows in flight; somebody gets an idea of where to go and hundreds follow in a moving wave. Same thing when they run away too.

Wow, that's good egg-nog.

Cheers, Filthy

Fellblade
23-12-2007, 06:37
I've tried running all infantry about 3 times now and I find it rather frustrating. Its not the losing of 6pt guardsmen that bothers me, its just the amount of time it takes to set it all up, put it all way, and fire off volley after volley of lasguns. Generally you can have more models than your opponent can ever hope to kill which is one thing they don't like and they also don't like waiting though 20 minutes of lasgun fire... so the game isn't enjoyable for either player.

Maybe that just me an the local though, but I thought I'd toss it out there to play devil's advocate for a bit. I will say this, however, I did buy the Apoc infantry company box set so I'm not totally against making the idea work!

Ishmael
23-12-2007, 07:02
I would love to run all infantry. Everything I've ever heard about it anywhere has been nothing but praise (or mutterings, depending on which perspective you're tuning in to). Perhaps once my 1750 list is built (Inf/Armor) I will begin the slow move to one all infantry force, and one armoured company.

As has been already stated, the heavy and special weapons squads are a must if you plan on filling the gap left by a Leman Russ or three.

Estacado
23-12-2007, 13:26
Hi guys. So in everyones opinion, does an all infantry guard army benefit more so from thie likes of allies like grey knights or battle sisters? Or are the points better spent on more guardsmen?

Onlyhestands
23-12-2007, 14:16
English 2000 said to comment on his army so I will. Iím defiantly not a pro but I can make some basic comments.
First of all, I defiantly agree with having lascannon anti-tank squads. I donít like mortars but I donít hate them either.
I do disagree with lascannons in your command squads. Why? Because officers keep your army (especially with a lot of infantry) from running away. Most opponents will be targeting the command squad to bring down the guardsmen's ld. This is doubly so if they have lascannons. You also donít want your command squads in line of sight, they are better to either hide and give ld, or hide with a bunch of special weapons and then jump out from hiding at a squad foolish enough to get close. I would remove the lascannons from the command squads, and buy anti-tank elsewhere in the list. I would recommend some lascannons or missiles in a few line squads, because they are less vulnerable to enemy fire, can be spread out incase the enemy tries to deny line of site to tanks/mcs.

On your hq command squad I would recondmend either a Heroic Senior Officer, or a Junior officer. Senior officers have the same ld as the Junior officer, but you pay more to make him slightly better in cc. However your command squad is not tooled out for cc so the Senior officer is a waste. Either pay the points for a better ld or donít pay any points on him. If you go for the Hso take a junior officer and buy him an Honorific imperialis. You get a hso and save 5 points.

Cameleoline is a fine doctrine; I don't have any problems with it.

Unfortunately rough riders canít take both melta guns and hunting lances. The wording isnít exactly clear, but the consensus online seems to be that they canít. I think its stupid, but thatís the rules. If I fought you I would allow it, but some people wont. You also only have 2 fast attack choices. I would try to evenly split the rough riders into 3 squads of 6 or so men. This means if some decimated enemy squad charges your infantry, and you donít need all the rough riders you wonít waste 10 lances. This also makes the opponent have to shoot different squads of rough riders, and a squad of 6 is easier to hide, especially since rough riders are so much bigger than your infantry.

And to get on target I occasionally play all infantry guard, usually in small points games. Its fun to completely invalidate the enemies anti-tank and watch them kill 6 point models with expensive lascannons 1 at a time.

UncleCrazy
23-12-2007, 17:10
I am not a big fan of Lascannons in an IG army, Why because it is almost half the cost of the squad and one shot. Taking anit-tank squads with them in it is not good either. You will just give VPs away like that. I like the Rocket Launcher my self, Good anti-tank and anit-horde.

Anti-tank squads are impossible to protect it is just too easy to target them, maybe if they changed it to Ld check for each squad in between.

I will have to say that plasma guns are too much of a must for IG. The sad thing is that they are not too good, it is just that all the other options are that bad. exp: when is the last time you saw a flamer in a Tac squad for IG? I use the Jungle fighter doc and still will not use flamers or heavy flamers, because if you are getting close enough to flame something, it is getting close enough to your guys to rip you appart.

Troop heavy IG is a good army though, mostly because no one uses heavybolters any more, so when they fire their lascannon in to your squads they only kill a 6 to 8 pt mini. Same with shooting plasma at IG.

IG always work best when it is More the Merrier.

English 2000
23-12-2007, 18:06
Thanks for the comments and suggestions everyone.

Onlyhestands: I checked the codex - you are correct - no meltas. I'll split the RR's into two squads and use the extra points to beef my commander to an HSO. I'll drop the lascannon from that squad and add a banner, medic and some special weapons. This will be used to move around and give ld9 where needed most.

I will leave the lascannons in the other command squads because Junior Officers are only Ld 8 - the same as the Vet Sarges in the squads - my purpose for them is essentially to provide lascannon shots after the AT squads get shot up in the first two turns.

@ Estacado: I'm not going to take any allies in this army - I want this to be a pure guard force. I'm not a fan of the Grey Knights, nor to I want some nosey inquisitor poking his nose in where it's not welcome :p