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View Full Version : A possible source for a lot of in-depth information on the Imperium



Sekhmet
22-12-2007, 02:30
http://www.blackindustries.com/?template=40K&content=40K-dh-rulebook

40k RPG by Black Industries, the RPG branch of the Black Library (as Sabretooth games is the card game branch while the BL itself is fiction/novels).

Does anyone have this and does it provide new insights into the inner workings of the Imperium?

The website provides a sample page on the Guardsman.. class? In it it shows how someone can advance from a Conscript to a Guardsman to a rifleman?, then branch off into either the sniper, command or shock troop (storm trooper) disciplines.

ThousandPlateaus
22-12-2007, 10:18
It's not due out until the end of January, but someone may have a copy already.

It will mean that in the next few years, information on the Imperium will expand massively - just take a look at the sheer volume of expansions for WHFRP. Exciting times indeed.

Charax
22-12-2007, 11:06
I have it. the background sections are extensive and detailed, with lots of new information as well as reiteration of some older background (it doesn't assume any prior knowledge of the 40K universe)

Don't use the titles of ranks to be any indicator of background, each rank encompasses several different possible ranks within the organisation (the Tech-priest career has an Electro-priest, for example, but not everyone in that rank will be an electro-priest).

Most of the in-depth background from Dark Heresy will centre around a single sector - the Calixis Sector - which will be the setting for all official adventures for Dark Heresy (the rationale being that the Imperium is far too vast and diverse to cover in it all in sufficient depth, so they'll just expand this one sector as an example, you're still free to make your own)

Sekhmet
22-12-2007, 11:24
I have it. the background sections are extensive and detailed, with lots of new information as well as reiteration of some older background (it doesn't assume any prior knowledge of the 40K universe)


Think it's worth getting just for the background?

Charax
22-12-2007, 11:34
Depends. if you want to know about the Inquisition or the Calixis sector, then yes, as these are what the majority of new material is about.

Sekhmet
22-12-2007, 11:44
So it's like inquisitor, but without having to buy models?

Or can you actually get background info on an entire "party" that doesn't have an inquisitor?

Charax
22-12-2007, 11:50
NO party has an Inquisitor in it, players are Acolytes working for an NPC Inquisitor. there is no progression into becoming an Inquisitor (it's hinted that that will be in another game later on). This particular fact has led to lots of people whining like crazy on the BI boards.

It's not at all like Inquisitor, because Inquisitor is all about combat. Dark Heresy is a proper roleplaying game, with skills and interaction with other characters.

Bregalad
23-12-2007, 09:04
RPG books are mostly worth it, if you are interested in background information and fluff, even if you don't like RPGs.
Inquisitors can order the descruction of a planet, so they are way to powerful for a beginner's character. So you basically play his retinue, which offers high diversity of player options and a good setting for adventures.
The second wave of "Dark Heresy" centers on rogue traders, perhaps even allowing the first Xeno characters, the third one allows playing the god-like Space marines.

ThousandPlateaus
23-12-2007, 13:18
I can't wait to get my greasy paws on this game. Charax, may I ask how you acquired it early?

I think it'll be worth buying just for the background, as will many of the forthcoming supplements, I'm sure. As I've said before, just take a look at the work done on the Warhammer world through the WHFRP supplements.

LordXaras
23-12-2007, 13:28
I can't wait to get my greasy paws on this game. Charax, may I ask how you acquired it early?
Collector's edition.

ThousandPlateaus
23-12-2007, 13:31
Ah, ok - I thought that was being dispatched at the end of January, too.
I couldn't bring myself to part with that much money for it, even if it does look utterly beautiful.

UselessThing
23-12-2007, 13:41
Charax must love it - there seems to be a zero chance of ever playing anything remotely cool, while the combat rules would seem to rule out any kind of heroic action - five mooks with assault rifles are gonna rip up even a 75 session/2 year maxed out PC, while skill rolls in the 40-50% range means you can't rely on stealth or diplomacy (and I'd avoid climbing to any high places, given the odds of falling off).

Hey - where'd this lemon come from?


No 135 , Inquisitor Nenoro, contributor copy obviously, Ordo Hereticus (well he will be later this afternoon when I've finished writing something for a later book )

I'll second John's rumormongering by mentioning that Knael's fame in the Ordo Xenos of years past proceeds him, Kol Shek is a radical but not in the way the term is usually applied, and Marr, well Marr is something very different...

Damnit, see, the game restricts playing with this cool stuff to the writers of the books, or maybe the GM - the players just get to watch!

Kage2020
23-12-2007, 16:25
As far as I'm aware, based upon comments from the developers, the playtesters and the people that have acquired it, you're look at around 70 pages of "background" in a 400 page book. That's actually not bad, though the majority of this is - as Charax states - focused on the Inquisition (~20 pages), the Calixis sector (~30 pages) and ~20 pages on the general Imperium. As you can see from the example documents it is "lavishly illustrated," which also means that I wouldn't be surprised if 20 pages of generic information condenses down to a value much smaller than that. (I can only compare it to WFRP 2e, where the "careers" section was, for me, woefully bloated by artwork so as to give you a picture of each career type. It is, however, as all things GW, "very pretty" with fantastic and thematically appropriate artwork.)

The designers were also fairly clear that Dark Heresy would be very thematic, and primarily Narrativist and Gamist (which is to say that it abstracts reality for a specific narrative theme, if I recall the definitions of those terms correctly). There was also a claim of Simulationism (reflecting 'reality'), but since it is also stated that the acorn of Dark Heresy doesn't fall far from WFRP, and that system is primarily narrativist/gamist with little Simulationism (beyond being Low Fantasy and, therefore, closer to medieval reality)...? Couple that with statements that it would - essentially - be a dark medieval fantasy game in space?

If you're after it solely for background, it has been stated by some owners of the game (collectors edition, again) that you're probably not going to find anything that you could not already find in such things as Inquisitor, the Thorian Sourcebook and other 40k publications. (These also have the added bonus of being free.) Also, if your vision for the 40k universe doesn't subscribe to how GW are touting it at the moment (again, dark medieval fantasy in space rather than, say, RT "sci-fantasy"), you're more than likely going to be disappointed.

Of course, I haven't seen the book yet. My decision to buy it or not is being affected by the fact that it is:


Expensive, even if not inappropriately expensive for what you're getting (400 page full colour, glossy page book with all the lovely design that makes GW what it is).
Unavailable in electronic format. While I can understand GW's paranoia with regards to the free (illegal) electronic distribution of their product, with the increasing popularity of electronic media and the development of things such as Amazon's Kindle...? Well, I'm not a business person, but it might have cost them at least one sale.
Purported highly themed "dark medieval fantasy in space" approach. I like my fantasy games to be a bit more "honest," thus if I want to play a fantasy game I'll play a fantasy game. Thus I'm going to stick to earlier renditions of 40k and the interpretations thereof. After all, that's why the 'fluff' is the way it is - to maximum the freedom for interpretation, even if there is always a "change things and you're not playing 40k anymore" approach.
Disappointment with the Shattered Hopes demo that, while it was stated was to demo the rules, was otherwise fairly limited to a "fantasy dungeon bash" and the typical "Chaos did it" approach.
I don't necessarily feel the need to RP as a mook, and if I'm going to have to homebrew everything to play how I want, then what is the impetus for me to actually buy the book in the first place? Otherwise I'm going to have to wait 2-4 years to play anything else.


That's just me, though. As it was pointed out to me, thumb through the book in your local game store and if you like the look of it, then buy it. If you're wanting it just for the background? Well, remember that it is primarily dedicated to the Calixis sector, and what isn't has purportedly been published in one form or another before, and the general background on the Imperium will likely take the "you will not be missed" depressing theme.

As always, though, make up your own mind. Perhaps if I manage to see a copy (no local game stores for me) I will change my mind! :D Regardless of that, though, "in-depth" background material? Has GW every really done in-depth background material, or have they primarily given us a superficial look at the surface to engender the fans to get creative and work in the depth themselves?

Kage

UselessThing
23-12-2007, 17:11
Actually, I'd have said it was sim to the point of impracticality - you could run the adventures with GURPS no problems. Either way the only sensible way to tackle a cult is with a heavily armed swat team, and rag tag adventurers are going to be relying entirely on GM fiat to survive scenarios.

Theres another free adventure at:-

http://www.blackindustries.com/pdf/dh-scenarios/edge-of-darkness.pdf

by a chap who has something to do with forge world.

Kage2020
23-12-2007, 17:27
My apologies for the mis-use of the whole GNS terminology, since my limited understanding of that theory would seem to indicate that if there are an simulationist components they are very well hidden. (And I do run the adventures with GURPS... ;))

Thanks for the reference to the new adventure. I'll take a gander it when I get the chance.

Kage

P.S. Please don't post links to the Forge or GNS theory. It will make me cry. ;)

UselessThing
23-12-2007, 18:28
I think you should like it more - the badguys are The Logicians:-


The Logicians are an alliance of heretic factions who have long been a thorn in the side of the Calixis and the nearby Ixaniad Sectors. Founded not around a single charismatic figure or dark religion, they find their inspiration in a forbidden heretical text called “In Defence of the Future: A Logical Discourse”, banned now for several millennia. The Logicians are a so-called “progressive” cult, they favour the advancement of mankind through progress and the acquisition of technology, believing that they should cast-off of the oppression of the Ministorum, overthrow of the High Lords of Terra and put an end to the smothering constraints of the Adeptus Mechanicus. Ultimately, the Logicians aim to bring about a return to the mythic power of the Dark Age of Technology.

Finding adherents through a secret network of ruthless mercantile interests and power-hungry nobles, they are a haven for hereteks and rogue techpriests, and are highly organised and well resourced. Although no Daemonic force or apocalyptic agenda lies at their heart, the Logicians are still a phenomenally dangerous group, utterly callous in their pursuit of power and unceasing in the hunt for ever better weapons and tools by which to achieve their ends.

Kage2020
23-12-2007, 18:59
Ha, now that is funny. Thanks for the pointer, UselessThing. I'll try to get to reading that as soon as I've managed to figure out how to prettily represent an Anargo "standard representation" for the webpage. ;)

Kage

Sekhmet
23-12-2007, 20:46
I think you should like it more - the badguys are The Logicians:-

So the bad guys are what we'd consider, in the real world, to be the "good guys". I like that.

malika
23-12-2007, 21:03
I dont know about that...personally I would like to move away from "good guys" and "bad guys". Its all about perception I guess.

UselessThing
23-12-2007, 21:50
Oh aye, you could go loads of ways with it - The Logitians in the scenario have been kidnapping people to experiment on turning them in to soldier drones, and try to cover their tracks by virus bombing a hive level. One could decide they are right to do so, as the Imperium routinely does much worse, or they could be self serving, or they could be misguided and their messing with tech without the rituals of the mechanicus could unleash the Demons. Or whatever. And the PCs could twart them or join them (a Logician faction in the Inquisition would be entirely acceptable, given that some of them are chaos cultists already), or it could turn out that the Logicians are a faction of the Inquisition, either because someone in the organisation thinks it is a good idea, or because someone in the organisation wants to unleash the demons to serve some long term goal or whatever.

Nothing is true, everything is permitted and all that.

Griffin
24-12-2007, 20:41
I love it - no more "chaos did it". I for one would join the Logic lads - Down with mysticism and forward with technology comrade!

So who's property can I share ;)

UselessThing
25-12-2007, 09:25
I for one would join the Logic lads - Down with mysticism and forward with technology comrade!

DIE HERETEK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

+sound of fwooshing promethium+

Yuuya
29-12-2007, 00:38
im going to get it just for its background on 40k.