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gunhed
15-04-2005, 19:34
I've been reading a lot of Inquisition fluff recently, and a few texts say the Inquisition existed before the Emperor.

Does anyone have any idea what they "Inquired" about in those early days?

malika
15-04-2005, 19:37
The Inquisition before the Emperor? I always saw the Inquisition as a religious organisation...did they worship somebody else before the Emperor?

Justice And Rule
15-04-2005, 21:14
Well, I remember the old old fluff on Horus asking one of his sergeants to go to the local Inquisitor enclave for psychic testing. I'll bet they were probably an internal police like they are today, monitoring mutants, psychers, and cults. The big thing now is the division all the different theological variations on the Emperor.

Sojourner
15-04-2005, 21:55
As far as I know there wasn't one til after his death. Newer stuff suggests that the 'Secret and Most Holy Order of the Emperor's Inquisitors' appeared among the representatives in Guilliman's ad-hoc council shortly after the Emperor's internment - and nobody, not even the Primarchs, asked questions.

Vanisher
15-04-2005, 22:24
First of all I woudl like to say hello to fellow Porteners.As for the exinstence of the Inquisition before the Emperors ascencion to the Golden Throne,Index Astartes:Thousand Sons article (WD267UK) mentions "witch hunters"
that have arrived on the world of Nikaei(they have been accusing Manguns the Red and his marines of socery and witchcraft,because the practices of legion were very simillar to those of mutants and fallowers of the ruinious powers).The Emperor present at the debate,after listenenig the representantive of Space Marines Libliarians decided that psykers can serve the good of humanyty,but shoudl remain uder strict imperial control,and orderd Mangus to abandon all of his questionoble practices.

P.S.Sorry for any spelling mistakes.

Avenging Dentist
16-04-2005, 06:48
The Inquisitor rulebook (not surprisingly) has a few tantalizing hints about the origins of the Inquisition. Sojourner is right, though. A passage in the book (p 38) says: "When the Senatorum Imperialis was convened on the first anniversary of the Emperor's Ascension, none dared question the grim-faced man who joined them for the first time. None were brave enough to ask what exactly were these 'Holy Orders of the Emperor's Inquisitors' he represented. It was enough that the Primarchs avowed he had the Emperor's blessings."

The book also suggests pretty strongly that the Inquisition and the Resurrectionists (who believe that the Emperor will return to his mortal body and "throw away the shackles of the Golden Throne") were founded from two opposing factions of an even more mysterious group...

The Inquisition may have existed in a limited form before the Emperor's Ascension, but probably didn't exist before the Great Crusade, at least not in any organized form. After all, most of the human worlds were isolated from one another prior to the Crusade. Some of the worlds may have dealt with witches like the Inquisition does, but they'd have no way of organizing throughout the entire galaxy.

Brother Munro
16-04-2005, 09:33
I doubt the Inquisition existed before the Emperor himself, but it is highly likely that the Emperor set them up in secret during the Great Crusade, probably about the same time he created the Grey Knights.

macbeth
16-04-2005, 09:52
Inquisition probably existed at the time, as a kind of secret service, with a very limited role. As soon as the Emperor ascended the Golden Throne, they were given far more powers.

I was under the impression taht it was the Officio Assassinorum which was created after the Heresy...

sulla
16-04-2005, 23:25
I was under the impression taht it was the Officio Assassinorum which was created after the Heresy...

Not if you believe the NIght Lords novel where the main baddie recants a tale from his primarch who claims the emperor dispatched assassins to kill him before the heresy...

milmot
17-04-2005, 06:29
Just because someone is an assassin, doesnt mean they are part of the Officio Assassinorum. Eg i'm sure they are free lance assassins out there that can be hired by anyone. The Officio Assassinorum would only refer to the highly trained assaissins that work for the upper echolon of the Imperium. So it is possible for the emperor to send an assassin before the OA was created. I'm sure assassins exsisted for many millennia.

Going back to the origins of the Inquisition. I believe they did existed before the great crusade, but probably were not what they are now today. They may have started out as something like Witch-hunters, before the emperor created them to be a more of an internal police force.

grizzly ruin
17-04-2005, 07:06
Just because someone is an assassin, doesnt mean they are part of the Officio Assassinorum. Eg i'm sure they are free lance assassins out there that can be hired by anyone. The Officio Assassinorum would only refer to the highly trained assaissins that work for the upper echolon of the Imperium.

Considering he was the Emperor of the Imperium, that would probably rate as "upper echelon" of the imperium.

And you would have a hard time convincing me that the Emperor of Mankind would hire a run of the mill "free-lance" assasin to kill his son, who just happens to be a Primarch with an entire legion of Space Marines at his call...

Avenging Dentist
17-04-2005, 07:09
Just because someone is an assassin, doesnt mean they are part of the Officio Assassinorum.
Yes, but he was killed by a Callidus Assassin, so this pretty strongly suggests that the Officio Assassinorum existed (although, the assassin temples could predate the organization).


Going back to the origins of the Inquisition. I believe they did existed before the great crusade, but probably were not what they are now today. They may have started out as something like Witch-hunters, before the emperor created them to be a more of an internal police force.
Remember, before the Great Crusade, human systems were isolated (due to Warp Storms), so you had at best local Inquisitions that dealt with issues in a given empire/sector/etc. According to Critical Hit (http://www.criticalhit.co.uk/w40krp/warhammer_40k_timeline.shtml): "Humans survive only on those worlds where psykers are suppressed or controlled," so it stands to reason that some of these groups operated like the Inquisition, but that doesn't suggest that they formed the basis of the Inquisition as it stands today.

Based on the background in the Inquisitor book, I find it highly unlikely that the Inquisition existed prior to the Emperor's Ascension. However, the organization that established the Inquisition most likely existed prior to the Emperor's Ascension (and was probably formed by the Emperor himself). A (very) short story in the Inquisitor handbook features a group of shadowy figures discussing the state of the Imperium shortly after he was interred in the Golden Throne, and it's hinted pretty strongly that a) they have enormous power, and b) one faction of them establishes the Inquisition. This organization likely had Inquisitorial powers, but I doubt they had the same level of paranoia that the Inquisition does. (It seems, part of the reason they established the Inquisition was to combat a faction of their fellows who believed that the Emperor should and would return to his mortal body once more. The Inquisitors-to-be needed to eliminate this heresy in order to maintain unity in the Imperium; hence the paranoia about cults and secret societies.)

Delicious Soy
17-04-2005, 08:49
The evidence cited by the inqusitor rulebook doesn't rule out the existence of the Inquisition pre ascension. It merely rules out them having a diresct role in the runnings of the Imperium before Ascension. Like the Officio Assasinorum, it probable that the inquisition was responsible only to the Emperor himself, therefore it fell to Guilliman to round up these highly powerful (yet probably unknown to all but the highest advisors) organisation and incorporate them into the new framework of the Imperium. Why else would the Assassins have a seat on the High Lords? Or the inquisition for that matter? Both are implements of the system yet dictate the way the system is run, which is highly unusual, especially in the case of the assassins who are nominally at thcommand of the high lords, yet can dictate what the high lords say through their representative.

milmot
17-04-2005, 09:29
Considering he was the Emperor of the Imperium, that would probably rate as "upper echelon" of the imperium.

And you would have a hard time convincing me that the Emperor of Mankind would hire a run of the mill "free-lance" assasin to kill his son, who just happens to be a Primarch with an entire legion of Space Marines at his call...

My point was that IF there was no OA back then, then he would have to hire a "run of the mill" assassin, although i'm sure he would hire the best available. But since it was a Callidus Assassin, i withdraw my pervious statement.


so you had at best local Inquisitions

I would agree. But i'm guessing that the Emperor would have to use an existing organisation as a base to form the Inquisition. I imagine it would have been pretty difficult to create the Inquisition from scratch. As the Imperium expanded, more members would have been added to increase the organisation's power base and network.

Wolflord Bloodangel
18-04-2005, 04:08
Im sure as the Emperor took mankind to the stars on his great crusade he also brought along with him his own secret police, the most holy members of the Inquisition. It wouldnt have been hard to imagine the Emperor creating them from scratch, he created the whole damn Imperium from scratch, so one department amongst many seems believable.

gunhed
21-04-2005, 17:46
There's some good answers there fellas, thanks. Sorry I haven't contributed to my own thread, but my computer packed up and I've only just got back on line.

I suppose they'd have had to have been Terra bound, at least during the warp storms that existed until the birth of Slaanesh blew them away, but there might have also been some isolated =][= conclaves on human worlds left over from the Age of Expansion, keeping the local Witch population in check. But then these guys would never have heard of the Emperor until he arrived at their world.

As for the OA, I've got both Codex's in my attic, and I'm sure they didn't exist until during the HH. If I remember, the Emperor made an off the cuff remark about someone causing trouble, and a few of His advisors went off and killed the person off their own backs, and then kept on assassinating His enemies.

When they revealed their works to Him, he gave them His blessing and thus the OA was born. The temples came just after I think. All of the original assassins became the master of each of the different temples.