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catbarf
27-12-2007, 01:13
Well, I've got a bit of a conundrum regarding Renegade Militia. My projected 1500pt list would be 201.25 pounds (175, plus 25.25 shipping). However, I found that by adding a Malcador and some Priests (74 pounds, plus improved comms for 4 pounds) for 2000pts I could get up to 253 pounds and get free shipping. So, I have two questions:

1. Could I use the Malcador in my 2000pt list, or would it be considered cheesy/unbalanced? It's a superheavy, but less than half the price of a BB, and is AV13 at best. It's a lovely model, but I don't want to buy something that nobody will let me use- and this purchase will be ALL I will buy for next year.

2. Is the Malcador in IA:A? Or are the experimental rules the most current?

Thanks for your time.

chromedog
27-12-2007, 01:18
IA:A is for Apoc games, the points costs and abilities will be slightly different than its 40k profile (Apoc baneblade is much cheaper, for example).

It's in Siege of Vraks, afaik.
Or there may be someone who has the downloadable trial rules from the FW website, before they took them down. These are/will be fairly close to the ones they have in the book.

Let's face it, the IA profile and stats for the Baneblade haven't changed since 2000 (despite there being several newer reprints of the IA stuff.)

TwoByFour
27-12-2007, 01:22
I'm not sure about the rules, but doesn't forgeworld remove the rules from their website when they are printed? Meaning that the experimental rules are the only ones...
For what it's worth though, I would have no problem with a superheavy in a regular game, as long as you don't bring an excessive amount of other tanks and armour. Maybe make a house rule that would make it count as two HS slots? I'm assuming friendly games here, anything official would be right out, of course.

Chaos and Evil
27-12-2007, 01:25
The Malcador is not in the Siege of Vraks.


The Macharius is, but that's a different matter.

DartzIRL
27-12-2007, 01:35
I have a Banebalde.... got the thing for Display really, since it's such a damn nice model. There's no reason though, it can't be used in a game, as long as you follow the rules profile from IA for it.

The same goes for any superheavy I guess, especially some of the smaller Vehicles like the Malcador, or the Macharius.

Cheesy? Not Really. It's a lot of points tied up in the one unit, and it'll still take only the one theoretical lucky lascannon shot to have your nice superheavy all smoking and burning.

It can though, make a good centerpiece for a homemade scenario, if you want...

Say, and Imperal Enginseer with servitors and a Chimera, aswell as an armoured fists squad, are out to protect a downed Superheavy and repair it.

Enemy get's points value equal to half the superheavy's cost, aswell as whatever your enginseer and Armoured Fist costs.

The Superheavy starts Immobilised, and with all it's ordinance weapons destroyed (Hence, half points). If it's got no ordinance, maybe a pair of main weapons of your opponents choice?

The enginseer can repair the tank, as per his normal rules. ( Might be a good idea to take some tech servitors, huh?)

The Imperial objective is to rescue the tank, and move it off their home board edge. The enemy, are trying to destroy the tank, before it can be mobilised, or before it's guns are fixed to blast them to pieces....

Darkane
27-12-2007, 02:08
I personally wouldn't think it would be overpowering or cheesy as its not exactly an ultra powerful tank to begin with. You'd also have to take an extra detatchment to use it anyways which would allow your opponent to do so as well and take some extra heavy support, elites or fast attack. I think it's normally advised that you start taking extra detachments at around 2500 points but I guess some folks wouldn't mind using them in smaller games. I know I wouldn't.

eek107
27-12-2007, 03:22
The Malcador is indeed in IA:A. 3 variants, in fact.

FW recommend that superheavies be taken only in games greater than 2000 points as a second detatchment (like a multiple FOCs), but seeing as how FW lists are opponent's permission anyway then the folks you're using them against aren't likely to be too opposed to the idea of you having one in 2k. Especially something as moderate as a Malcador. I reckon it might be a good idea to ask your regular opponents if possible, just to be sure.

catbarf
27-12-2007, 04:15
Thanks for all the input. I'll have to think it over.

catbarf
27-12-2007, 18:57
Sorry for the double post, but I've got two questions:

1. If the Battle Cannon Malcador has a hull-mounted Lascannon, it has pretty much the same firepower as a Russ. Is this right?

2. Since I'd need IA:A to use the BC Malcador, would I be able to use that version in normal games? Or is it like the BB in that it's only fair in Apoc?

HiveFleetEzekial
27-12-2007, 19:08
Yes, it seems allot like a Russ. It was the predecessor(sp?) to the Russ (fluff wise), so it should feel similar, yet bigger.

You don't 'need' IA:A for anything in it in a normal game. Infact, I'm not sure you could.. since it is meant for Apoc stuff, with different rules for damage and whatnot.


Either download the 'experimental'(temporary till put into update '07), or wait for update '07 to come out. Though it may already be in update '06, not sure.

Moostikal The Confused
27-12-2007, 19:17
I'd be happy for you to use it. However make sure you get the IA rules for it, Apoc stuff does not fit fairly into standard games. i tested out a brass scorpion in a 2.5k game. It wiped out most of my opponents army, and he's no pushover to say the least. Apoc rules in a standard game throws balance out the window.

Malorian
27-12-2007, 19:18
I don't think that superheavies should be in a game of less than 3000, and even at that level only 1 is ok.

The only exception to this would be when they know you are bringing it so they can be ready.

catbarf
27-12-2007, 20:39
I don't think that superheavies should be in a game of less than 3000, and even at that level only 1 is ok.

The only exception to this would be when they know you are bringing it so they can be ready.

See, the thing is that it's hardly a superheavy. Sure, it has two structure points, but it's slow, only has AV13 (and only on the front at that), and has gunnery almost equal to a Leman Russ.

My question about IA:A is that I have no idea how I'd use the Battle Cannon Malcador or Lascannon Malcador. The only rules I could find were for the normal Malcador.

MrP
28-12-2007, 00:51
I must confess to being a tad puzzled that people are saying the IA: A rules are solely for Apoc, given thetag on the front cover: New rules for Warhammer 40,000 and Warhammer 40,000 Apocalypse. But whatever floats one's boat, I s'pose. The most important thing, as Warwick Kinrade says in his intro, is to have fun, after all.

catbarf
28-12-2007, 23:39
The reasoning is that Apocalypse assumes that both players have enormous armies with big guns. In normal 40k, where nobody has a Super Cannon of One-Shot-Kills Doom, superheavies are very hard to kill and can do a ton of damage.

Killgore
28-12-2007, 23:45
the Malcador isnt what i call a power gamer tank, in fact its hardly threatening when compaired to two fire prisms (and costs similar points)


it totaly depends on your oponunt, if they are a fussie git then tougth luck. Just explain it to them before the game that your bringing one and if its ok to do so and if they ask show them the rules and all should be fine.

DartzIRL
29-12-2007, 00:14
If you get bored, or come across an evil powergamer, if you have the Battle Cannon Model, just count it as a Standard Leman Russ then why not? Seems simple enough to me, it's what the count's as 'rules' are for

catbarf
29-12-2007, 00:17
Er... it's a good bit bigger than a Russ.

DartzIRL
29-12-2007, 03:08
I suppose.... But if you're stuck, it'll do the Job...

A13X
10-01-2008, 03:54
If it's FW then officially I think you need to ask permission from the opposition to play it in normal games. Most people should say yes, I mean, what tool would say no? Though tools do exist, you could probably expect a little bit of anger from your opponent if you smash him with it since it's not part of the regular army list. You can use it in GW tournaments if the administrator says yes.

Good idea to get it if you can but have a sperate army list in case you need to change.

GodofWarTx
10-01-2008, 07:38
As someone who has faced Baneblades (apocalypse rules) in regular 40k games i can tell you being able to destroy 10 inch circles in a 4x6 table can not just be dismissed as fully balanced.

Can you imagine using one against a regular tyranid army? The only chance to destroy a superheavy as nids would be CC, as the Barbed Strangler AND the Venom cannon would still only glance it on the superheavy chart.

Marshal Argos
10-01-2008, 08:53
The reasoning is that Apocalypse assumes that both players have enormous armies with big guns. In normal 40k, where nobody has a Super Cannon of One-Shot-Kills Doom, superheavies are very hard to kill and can do a ton of damage.

That's absolutely true, but

1. the book also states that the rules located inside are also the new rules for all of the models located inside. It never says only for Apoc, it just says "hey, here's the new rules for these models"

2. book states that it also replaces Imperial Armour Update 2006. And none of the prior update books were solely for Apoc.

3. The book says that it has updated it's rules to fit in with Apoc.

So my understanding of the way everything is written is that it doesn't matter if it's a standard game of 40k or an Apoc game, the rules in the book are for both.

And besides the rules didn't change that much between the pdf and what got printed...