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Gamgee
21-09-2005, 11:25
Hello to you all,

I'm in the process of painting 8 trolls and in the meanwhile thinking about how to use them in my undivided mortal chaos army. The do go in, so please don't tell me not to ;)

My plan was to deploy them in two units of four. Then I need a general to herd them towards the enemy. What's the best way to do this?

Option 1: General on foot with a bodyguard of chaoswarriors (HW+S)
Option 2: General on horse with chaos knights.
Option 3: ???

With the foot unit I can deploy like this TROLL-GEN-TROLL in my centre, the trolls move ahead and the general mops up. I just hope the trolls don't run to fast ;)

The general on horse is more versatile, but also more at risk of getting drawn into other parts of the field, thereby leaving my troll shock force on their own (and that's really bad)

What do you think? Any other options?


Thanks in advance,

Gamgee

Avian
21-09-2005, 11:36
Why not have a single unit of 8 and stick a Battle standard bearer on a steed in the unit? :D

(apart from the ridiculous cost, that is...)

librerian_samae
21-09-2005, 12:30
thats what I've done in my orc/gobbo list, only 4 trolls though and the standard bearer is a nice and cheap gobbo! :)

Griefbringer
21-09-2005, 12:39
I think the general on foot and the two units of trolls on his sides or front would be the best choice. However, one problem you might found out when you hit the enemy line (and hopefully beat the enemy succesfully) would be that one unit of trolls is getting drawn to the left and the other to right and the general is puzzled which way to go.

And you are going to stonk down lots of points in those chaos warriors, trolls and the general - vily opponent might want to do his best to avoid getting in contact with any of them.

Niibl
21-09-2005, 12:56
Why not have a single unit of 8 and stick a Battle standard bearer on a steed in the unit?

I know that this is possible, but would not the opponent be able to pick him out due to the sizedifference?
It also would look odd with the different bases.

Avian
21-09-2005, 13:20
Yeah, he could pick him out (due to a rules oddity that hopefully gets removed next edition), so you probably don't want to do it when facing an army with a lot of cannons.

leeoaks
21-09-2005, 13:40
what about some trusty knights?a lot of points.....but a very tough hard hitting line....support with marauders an and your away.

ironduke
21-09-2005, 15:25
or drop the trolls period silly unit hmmmm...

ahh right you want advice either make him Slaanesh and a steed of Slaanesh 20' move or on foot with a unit never on horse in a unit because what you want to do with your generals unit is hit flanks not frontage so u use him as the unit that holds the enemy while the trolls go for the flanks. Also trolls against night always try and do this in battle because one automatic str 5 hit with no armour saves is the bane of any armoured foe.

Gamgee
21-09-2005, 15:43
Thanks for the advice this far. Another option if seen before is a sorcerer of Slaanesh with the right spells. (Frenzy or unbreakable thing). Sounds a bit like a gamble to me and it doesn't fit with my background...

Hmm, I think a general on foot will have to do it ... To bad the golden eye is Tzeench only....


More ideas?


And they must be in the army, it's the base of my background!

greets,

Gamgee

Makaber
21-09-2005, 15:44
If you want to be dastardly about the entire dealio, why not prop the general on a Daemonic Steed, put him in the troll unit where's he's well protected, and give him a Helm of Many Eyes, essencially negating its downside since he's in a unit of trolls anyways? His leadership is probably high enough to see him through the battle without any severe mishaps, the unit packs an immense punch, and the trolls make an excellent body guard with their regeneration.

Griefbringer
21-09-2005, 15:55
put him in the troll unit where's he's well protected, and give him a Helm of Many Eyes, essencially negating its downside since he's in a unit of trolls anyways?

Helm of Many Eyes in a unit of trolls? Now that is brilliant - is there any chaos magic item that would also grant a regeneration ability?

metro_gnome
21-09-2005, 16:06
why yes there is... troll hide armor... gets regeneration except only on a 6+...

im begining to see a theme here...

Makaber
21-09-2005, 16:07
There's the Crown of Everlasting Conquest for 50 points. There's also the Trollhide Armour for 20 points, but it's not all that hot, since it's only a heavy armour, and the regeneration only works on a 6, instead of 4+.

metro_gnome
21-09-2005, 16:10
yes... oddly enough you can combine the crown and helm...

a juggernaut of khorne would make him march at almost the right speed...

Makaber
21-09-2005, 16:13
As I said earlier, Daemonic Steed. Puts him on a large base, adds punch, and ups his speed to where he can keep up with the trolls, without limiting yourself to Mark of Khorne. Anyways, we've got 30 points left to burn, any suggestions?

Griefbringer
21-09-2005, 16:14
Unfortunately there does not seem to be any way to give chaos lord a puking attack - though a daemon prince with mark of Nurgle could have something suitable!

Griefbringer
21-09-2005, 16:25
Anyways, we've got 30 points left to burn, any suggestions?

Actually, only 25 left - the crown is 50 and helm 25 points. And there isn't much stuff to be found in the chaos treasure hoards for that.

Still, would mark of Nurgle be fitting, causing fear - though this is slightly redundant as the daemon steed would already be causing that.

Makaber
21-09-2005, 16:53
Actually, only 25 left - the crown is 50 and helm 25 points.

Of course, sorry.

I guess it's either a Sword of Battle or a Sword of Strength, then. I'm partial to Sword of Battle in this case, since it would match the many (relativly) low strength attacks of the trolls.

Gamgee
21-09-2005, 17:12
Thanks makaber, that's a nice idea! I'm going to build a nice two headed horse or something. I'd been looking into the regeneration items as well. The General does have troll blood (Hildur Trollson), so the crown would fit nicely. To bad it's pretty expensive! The other problem is my nicely converted chaos lord on foot....

Well, back to the converting board I guess ;)

I was one troll short, but I think I should deploy one unit of 3 with general on demonic steeds and one unit of 4. I feel it's a bit expensive to just use them as an extra rank ;)

Greets and thanks for all your help. More ideas welcome of course!

Gamgee

(edit): ehm on checking, the basesize of a deamon mount is 5x5cm while the trolls are on 4x4cm. Can he be picked out while in the unit? Even if it's a big unit? In short, is there a difference in trageting between a chaos steeds and a deamonic steed?

Griefbringer
21-09-2005, 17:19
How about converting one troll into the daemonic steed for the chaos general to ride around? Actually the stat lines for the two are not too far away from each other.

Markconz
21-09-2005, 18:24
(edit): ehm on checking, the basesize of a deamon mount is 5x5cm while the trolls are on 4x4cm. Can he be picked out while in the unit? Even if it's a big unit? In short, is there a difference in trageting between a chaos steeds and a deamonic steed?

Unit strength is the important stat here I belive. So if both are unit strength 3 - and IIRC they are... you will be fine. However, you can only claim protection from a unit which has 5 or more models (not wounds) so you need to be in/near a unit of 5 or more trolls, 3 or 4 won't do it.

(Someone correct me if I have this wrong...)

metro_gnome
21-09-2005, 18:30
yeah.. well i was gonna suggest it be one unit anyway...
i also really like the troll as daemonic mount idea... classy...

Markconz
21-09-2005, 22:37
yeah.. well i was gonna suggest it be one unit anyway...
i also really like the troll as daemonic mount idea... classy...

Yep, I'd also be tempted to stick it on a 40mm base just so it ranks up with the unit more nicely... and take 7 trolls with him rather than 8.

Does an undivided character get to reroll his stupidity test if he is with a unit making him stupid?!

Another option, (considering the points you are spending on this character already), is to just take an exalted daemon or deamon prince (the troll god? :D ), instead. 40mm base and US3 is perfect. Quicker to redeploy him away from the unit in a hurry if you need too... and conversion prospects which are just as interesting... just as smashy as the mortal hero too I'm sure.

Gamgee
22-09-2005, 07:34
I've been fiddling with the deamon idea for a short while, but sadly deamons can't join non-deamon units.

I'm still torn between the general on foot (seems more reliable) or the deamon mount (nice conversion options). I'd put him on 4x4 so he ranks up nicely. I guess such a big block makes an impression ;)

Sinew
22-09-2005, 10:45
Unit strength is the important stat here I belive. So if both are unit strength 3 - and IIRC they are... you will be fine. However, you can only claim protection from a unit which has 5 or more models (not wounds) so you need to be in/near a unit of 5 or more trolls, 3 or 4 won't do it.This is my understanding too, so in a weird way you're safer on a Daemon Steed with its larger US than on a Chaos Steed/on foot if you go with the trolls. You can be picked out regardless of unit size if you're in a unit which is bigger/smaller than you in terms of US, but despite the different base sizes a Daemon steed + rider can not be targetted in a unit of trolls.

I'd also be tempted to stick it on a 40mm base just so it ranks up with the unit more nicelyIf you do his have a spare 50 x 50mm base around the place just in case. Base size isn't just for decoration it also influences how many enemies you are in combat with so technically you shouldn't mess around with it. I played Sylass at a tournament last year though and he had ornamental bases for all his BoC characters, but had also brought along correct sized bases for when the units ranked up in combat. Smoothed out any problems I might have had.