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DartzIRL
30-12-2007, 03:04
Not sure if this is quite right place, but if in doubt, general discussion is king, anyway...

One day, you're happily sitting at your computer, posting away randomly on Warseer, when for no reason, a large Black Helicopter lands outside, marked with the sinister symbol of the Inquisition... Three men in black, hooded robes smash the door in, and drag you kicking and screaming to a black steel box somewhere inside the helicopter...

You feel yourself jostled, for what seems like an eternity, especially since you need to pee...

Finally, you're released into an eight foot by ten foot sealed cubicle, complete with food dispenser, toilet facilities, modelling tools, kit-sprue ordering pack and plasticard.

On the desk is the note:

"To be freed, Design the new Leman Russ battle Tank"

So then, what do you do? What sort of tank to you try and build? How would you redesign the imperial Guard range?

-------------------------

I'd guess the Leman Russ, coupled with the Basilisk and Chimera, would be some of the oldest models still in production, certainly one of the oldest tanks anyway. I think the sprue's say 1993.... though it's been some time since I built one. Given the look of the latest Baneblade, aswell as the rumours of a new 5th ed Guard Codex next year, there has to be something in store for the venerable Russ, right?

What I'd like to do, is carry over some of the heavy, rivetted asthetic of the Baneblade, to the Russ, make it seem more Like a Turreted WW1 MKVI. Make it look like the clanking, smoking, unsophisticated lump the fluff says it should be.

I think the tracks should be that little bit wider, and the Sideplates that little bit longer, so the Sponsons can be shifted between two seperate positions. Add the Heavy Flamer option to the tank-kit, and Enlarge the turret somewhat,

Then, bang on the walls and tell the Master inquisitor I'm finished and want to go home :P

catbarf
30-12-2007, 03:23
Sounds good for me. Of course, do realize that they don't let you go home... they feed you to the Golden Throne.

unclejimbo827
30-12-2007, 04:35
One thing I would definitely not do is make it all 'gothic' like the baneblade. Rivets = good, Arch thingies = not so much. I like your ideas though, about making it look more like a turreted mk I. I guess what I'd like to see is something more akin to the macharius.

As for the Chimera, I'd just like to see the chasis be about 15% bigger, and give it a proportionately larger turret than that of the current chimera.

Shield of Freedom
30-12-2007, 04:47
The Leman Russ looks pretty good now IMO. Especially with the updated accessory sprue that includes the track guards that seem standard now. It's a model that has stood the test of time, it STILL looks good amongst newer and newer models. That being said, I admit to being a little biasd... I just plopped $275.00 US on the 10 Leman Russ box. :)

Still, I would like to see the Leman Russ more modernized. Give it the tracks like the banblade (or Rhino only wider of course)... you know, tracks that are not flush with the full... tanks that don't have "wheels" that can't respond to uneven ground can't go very fast (say, 5mph) I know it's supposed to be "lost technology" and all, but it's STILL the future. I'd like to see it more as a M4A3 Sherman (welded hull instead of stamped hull pattern) or maybe Panzer IV look. Mk1 from WW1 to me seems TOO archaic IMO. I'm not of the opinion that severly gothic or severely ancient looking equals "cool" in a Sci-Fi setting. I mean look at the guardsmen and even thier heavy weapons, they look like futuristic light infantry... let's not make the vehicles look like they came from 1918.

Noserenda
30-12-2007, 04:58
Id probably widen the central hull and enlarge the turret while lowering the profile a little, the overall effect making the tank seem squatter as i think the current model is a bit... Towerish...

And ofc add baneblade stylee rivets, all options available and Imperial Eagle/Chaos tread options and maybe a couple of specific Chaos/Imperial upgrade bits like optional gothic arches and stars, that kinda thing.

MrP
30-12-2007, 05:05
Shorter hull, longer hull, smaller bore but same length main gun, updated (i.e. better-looking, especially the Fat Lascannon of Ugliness) hull and sponson weapons, no exposed upper tracks. Larger turret capable of accommodating more than 1 bloke.

TheNZer
30-12-2007, 05:29
I'd like to see a larger turret on a slightly less boxy tank.

Maybe more like a King Tiger from WW2

Joewrightgm
30-12-2007, 05:51
I would definityly make it wider. roughly the same proportions, but wider. This, I think, would make it look squatter and less sophisticated.

From there, I would definitly look backward to the old tank accessory sprue, to get the bladed dozer blade, and the cool box HK missile. Otherwise, keep the sprue the same, but recut it with higher detail (IE rivets).

imperial_scholar
30-12-2007, 06:27
I'd like to see it modernized, but the problem is that they are suppose to have a 'industrial dark' feel to them.

Here we go:
I'd widen the tracks and the model base to match (make similar to) the baneblade. I'd like to move the hull mounted gun to the turret. If that's a big no cause it requires lots of re-writing I'd lower the hull and make the hull mounted gun set back further and move the turret back like the churchill (WW2).
http://www.military.cz/panzer/tanks/united_kindom/churchill/image/churchill_2.jpg
I'd also like to see a challenger 2 style turret. Larger/slanted front.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39034000/jpg/_39034109_basra203.jpg
I'd double the length of the barrel.
I do like the SM sponsons. 'Grunt Phone' in the back of the tank. A 'Fuel port' or 2.
Something to make the front armour 'look' 14. Rivets?
50% of the tread showing by default.
Some pretty narly exhaust pipes at the rear.
The front would have some down facing triangles by default just to make it look more angry. Think old rhino dozer blade facing down.
A rear fuel tank that doesn't look like a barrel.
Internal & Turrect mounted Pintle Mounted Storm bolter/heavy stubber. I know this defeats the purpose of the name... but it'd look cooler! Otherwise a more enclosed pintle mount like the up-armour humvee's (gun shield).
http://adg.armorholdings.com/images/ground/light_tactical_tn.jpg

TheOTHERmaninblack
30-12-2007, 07:01
I second the notion of the Shermanesque Russ. The whole tracks over the roof thing has always bugged me, almost as much as the "suspension? We don' need no steenkin' suspension!" chassis.

A larger turret and smaller bore gun are also no-brainers.

Finally, I'd like the side sponsons sunken into the hull, such as those in the Malcadore.

Face it, as a WWI tank, the Malcador pwns the Russ anyway, so the Russ may as well move past and have a lash at WWII. I mean, it'll be 2008 in a couple of days; WWII is getting long enough in the tooth to qualify for GW's current tech.

Vaktathi
30-12-2007, 07:08
Personally, I'm a huge fan of the way this Turret looks like
32146

If the body were made a little flatter and made this turret the standard one we'd have a perfect new Russ.

Warpcrafter
30-12-2007, 07:22
Id probably widen the central hull and enlarge the turret while lowering the profile a little, the overall effect making the tank seem squatter as i think the current model is a bit... Towerish...

And ofc add baneblade stylee rivets, all options available and Imperial Eagle/Chaos tread options and maybe a couple of specific Chaos/Imperial upgrade bits like optional gothic arches and stars, that kinda thing.

That would be awesome, something like the T-34, which was so low-slung that the maximum height for the crew was 5' 4". It would look much more menacing.:evilgrin:

Hicks
30-12-2007, 08:09
I like how it currently looks and wouldn't want the desing to change too much. I guess GW wouldn't want the new russ to be incompatible with FW pieces anyway, so chances are the tank won't change much.

One thing I don't agree with is to make it bigger. It's already hard to maneuver and use cover effectively with the current size. It would need updated weapons yhough, even the battlecanon looks fat and too short. The turret Vaktathi posted would be pretty cool and with GW borrowing FW models it could very well happen. The rest of the tank would also really need to have suspensions, right now the hull is almost flush with the ground and that is just stupid. Details like rivets would be icing on the cake and I don't mind if it gets the same gothic treatment the baneblad got as long as it remains subtle enough.

Multiple plastic weapon choices for the turret and sponsons would of course be a must.

Ghudra
30-12-2007, 08:23
Definitely drop the height and make the model wider/longer. The M3 Lee-esque fascination with turret altitude needs to go.

Narrow the battlecannon barrel down a bit as well. It's all good and well to imagine lobbing 250mm+ shells through the tunnel the current model has, but it would benefit from some elegant redesign.

I'd also make the hull gun look less "tacked on" by making the rectangular mounting more horizontal than vertical and moving or eliminating the hatch position. Even the anorexic schoolboy fit of most WW2 English tank hatches doesn't jive with that front hull gun.

eek107
30-12-2007, 08:55
Widening the tracks is all I'd do if the kit absolutely MUST be changed. But I feel the Russ still looks good, given how long it's been in service.

RexTalon
30-12-2007, 10:53
I would make it much more like the Macharius.

Take a look at that beauty...

The swagger of that top hatch. The sexy new track layout. The thick armor plating. The big sweaty engine, just pulsating with desire to rev-up and... Sorry, got carried away...

chunk
30-12-2007, 11:03
Move the commanders hatch from behind the main gun! The recoil on that thing would pulp him!

A wider turret that could fit two guardsman in it, and space for ammunition. I'm thinking more like the predator turret, without the bullet catcher. For that matter you'd have to increase the size of the turret ring as well.

Updated sponsons, so it looks a man can use it from the inside.

Style wise, a touch of gothic/mechanicum iconography. Go rolling temples of death!

Stella Cadente
30-12-2007, 11:55
I'd order a ChallengerII kit, plonk 40k-ish bits on her, and thats it, job done

Varath- Lord Impaler
30-12-2007, 12:15
Hmmmm....


I know what i'd Do to the Guardsmen vehicles.

First:

Leman Russ:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/machvanq.htm

Scale down this model. No other changes necessary.

Chimera:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/gorgon1.htm

Again, Scale Down. Thats all that is needed (except perhaps you may need to remove the sponson weapons and replace with Firing Ports (not in built lasguns!)

Chimera Varients:

Not difficult, just add the weapons to the Gorgimera hull.

Darkhorse
30-12-2007, 12:29
Something along the lines of a Pzkw IV Ausf. F for me.

The Guy
30-12-2007, 12:33
I'd lower it, make the turret larger and the cannon more slender. It's too fat IMO looks awful.

Onlyhestands
30-12-2007, 13:02
I really like the model but If I absoulty had too (don't hurt me Inquisitor!) I would make the cannon smaller, and less rediculous, and made the turret bigger. Also update the hull/sponson guns. That way it wouldn't invalidate people's russes and forgeworld russes would still have a tank to go on. I would leave the hull alone.

battle captain corpus
30-12-2007, 13:06
Id leave the puppy alone, its one of the few models that GW got right first time out...these are rare indeed...hahah! :)

SharpSilver
30-12-2007, 13:41
The Leman Russ right now looks fine tbh, maybe change it so all of the track is protected by armour, and there you go ;)

Bunnahabhain
30-12-2007, 14:59
The design is antiquated and impractical, but it fits in the 40k universe , and should be mainly unchanged. There are too many out there, and too many forge world kits for a full re-design.

Turret: Redesign- Slightly larger, with smaller main gun. Keep current mounting ring. Include parts for common varients- demolisher, exterminator, vanquisher etc.

Seconary weapon: Modernise, and produce as many options as possible in plastic.

Hull and tracks. No change to basic shape. Modernise exaust system etc if wished, and include parts for a mars alpha type hull, with the sloping front. Enlarge hatches.

You now have a much better looking russ, but all the differences are individually small enough that they are clearly the same tank, just maybe produced by different forge worlds.

I have, somewhere, a picture of a wonderful conversion/scratchbuild Russ that would be perfect. Totally imcompatable with the cureent model, but a modern and realistic tank, in a 40K style. Will post it when I find it.

MalusCalibur
30-12-2007, 15:20
Personally I don't think the Russ needs changing. It's a superb tank that still looks fine. I certainly do not want it 'modernised' as some of the tank images on the 1st page have shown: it wouldn't be a Leman Russ any more if they make it look like that.

All I'd want is another sprue or two added to to the box to allow you to build some of the variants (Demolisher being priority one I think) in plastic.


MalusCalibur

athamas
30-12-2007, 15:25
i personally think a redesign based of the Macharius hull would look really really cool..

Col.Gravis
30-12-2007, 15:29
The basic design needs no updating in my eyes, the Russ is a design classic to me, the kit could be modernised though, through extra detailing, on the sponsons for example, and new tracks.

Lord Raneus
30-12-2007, 15:32
The Chimaera needs a bigger turret to be sure. 1-man turrets are ineffective and unpractical, and also look realistic.

I like the Russ as it is, but maybe give the hull-mounted weapon a bit more rotation room, and also a bit of up-down motion.

Godgolden
30-12-2007, 16:29
the leman russ definitly needs some spit and polish.. i have about 15 of them and if you 'have' to use forgeworld to make them look good then they need a adjustment

longer, wider tracks with extra armour plastic bits, new sponsons and a new lascannon, new turret - alot bigger so its an imposing part of the tank with a longer and 'slightly' more slender gun (ala mars)

even a plastic add-on pack would be great, with the technology evident in the baseblade they can really jazz it up but keep it a leman russ.

I would also shed a small amount of armour from the bottom of the tracks so you can see alittle bit of give.

shutupSHUTUP!!!
30-12-2007, 16:32
I'd like a new Leman Russ to look something like this sketch I've done (inspiration taken from Macharius):

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/2674/tankyi0.th.jpg (http://img258.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tankyi0.jpg)

It would have a lower profile and a wider turret which would make the vehicle look quite menacing. Rivetted extra armour plates wherever they can be bolted on would give it a suitably imperial look. The sponsons are way to small in that pic though.

I think a badass looking Leman Russ would send IG armies flying off the shelves. GW should do it.

Mr Feral
30-12-2007, 16:46
My Leman Russ I'm currently building for my Renegades & Heretics is going to have a new turret built in the style of the Malcador with Battlecannon (the "Defender"" variant IIRC?) and introverted sponsons.

DartzIRL
30-12-2007, 16:48
Most people seem to agree with Widening the tracks.... Maybe, just chuck a spare sprue of wheels and tracks into the box then might be enough. The track Guards and acessory sprue will need to be altered, but the basic mechanicals could be left the same.

I actually like the Current track design, it's heavy, unsophisticated look and feel, but maybe, it could be made more like the Malcador, with some suspension give in it, but not alot, similar to those chop-offs people do from time to time.

There is also a tendancy towards a complete redesign, or leaving it essentially alone, rather than just updating the current look. The Rhino/Predator got updated after about 15 years, and they managed to keep it true to the original, while still looking bang up to date. There's also no reason why Turret rings need to be incompatible with the Forgeworld stuff. It's not that hard to specify a specific width of turret.

Actually, I've noticed that, if you trim that tabs of a Russ Turret, it'll fit into a Predator ring, and vice Versa. Probably not designed that way, but it does work.

Weird....

And yes...add a few weapons options in the box like the 'Blade/Predator, rather than an entire seperate line like the Demolisher.

RexTalon
30-12-2007, 19:18
I'd like a new Leman Russ to look something like this sketch I've done (inspiration taken from Macharius):

That's a pretty sexy tank. I'd buy that, but considering I've just finished painting my 13th Russ variant, I'm not likely to buy more than one. I'd just use it as a command vehicle.

Oh, and one thing the tank MUST HAVE is removable antennae. I'm sick to death of all mine snapping off. I replace them with steel wire, but it would be better if I didn't have to use magnets or improv wire to fix my tanks.

Baltar
30-12-2007, 19:19
It'd be pretty sweet if they changed it to look more like an Abrams or something. But, that being said, I like them now, so, no complaints.

TheOTHERmaninblack
30-12-2007, 19:31
I'd be happy if they revamped the suspension layout (Shermanize) and redid the turret. The rest could be left alone. et viola! The wide range of Forgeworld kits still fit, as they invariably replace hull and turret bitz rather than track or sponson bitz.

MrBigMr
30-12-2007, 19:46
Its perfect as it is.
GW/FW should make Ragnaroks. They're the only thing that rock more than a leman russ.

Omniassiah
30-12-2007, 21:00
I'm in the massive redesign category. Start by beefing out the hull a bit. Wider tracks wider hull. Hull mount moved into a turret style mount similar to the center TLHB on the baneblade. Significantly larger turret enough to fit 3 men up in there (Cmdr, Gunner, Loader) and have space for the gun and armor. Side sponson remote controlled or sunk into the side of the tank. like the malcador.

Now the chimera just needs a larger turret Pred sized and the overall size a bit bigger and its good.

athamas
30-12-2007, 21:22
well here is my interpritation... the gun barral is far far to big, but that was due to some sloppy drawing on my behalf...


im very tempted to build 3 likle that actually... i need some for my traitor legions.. and want to eventually purchace a vulcarian.. just cos it looks such a wonderfull model...


anyway, here is my quick take...

the heights of the fronts are supposed to be the same..

rintinglen
30-12-2007, 21:28
Personally, I'm a huge fan of the way this Turret looks like
32146

If the body were made a little flatter and made this turret the standard one we'd have a perfect new Russ.
I heartily concur--love that Conquerer look!!

C_Noisy
30-12-2007, 21:48
macharius looks great .


http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/machvanq.htm

that's what i would like to see.

athamas
30-12-2007, 21:56
just quickly drawn a top down thing aswell, sans main gun and sponsons, but the sponsons are optional anyway :P and the main gun just obscures what lies below...


i really am going to have to make 3 of these now... [or more]

shutupSHUTUP!!!
30-12-2007, 22:01
I like it. Perhaps you could shorten the front end of the tank a bit and enlarge the turret?

Like this:
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/8744/img56872am0.th.jpg (http://img181.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img56872am0.jpg)

I'm going to have to open up Photoshop tommorrow and do a half-decent job on this.

athamas
30-12-2007, 22:09
hmm yeah, the scale is alittle off, nees to be abit bigger, and i missed abit of gubins off the front, but yes the front tracks want to be everso slightly shorter...

shutupSHUTUP!!!
30-12-2007, 22:11
I wouldn't want it any larger than the current Russ personally. Free space in one's deployment zone is something of a commodity for IG armies.

athamas
30-12-2007, 22:25
well im turning this into a project... here

http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120264


anyway, @shutupSHUTUP!!! i know what you mean, by larger i was impying the turret, it was bigger when i drew it :P or rather i rew the inside but that then became the outside...

as for the size issue, that drawing is about 1cm longer [after knocking abit of the front cos of the extra track length] and the same width as a normal russ... [as the central body is ~.5cm narrower, which is taken up by track ] the turret i drew deff. needs to be bigger by ~ .5cm aswell....

malika
30-12-2007, 22:31
CELS has been working on the designs for a new Battle Tank for the Anargo Sector Project. The idea was basically that a more modern looking tank was created. Check it out in this thread (http://anargo-sector.net/newforum/viewtopic.php?t=463).

Some pictures he made for his tank, named the Macaroth Medium Tank:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/CELS83/Anargo%20Sector%20Project/Vehicles/Macaroth1.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/CELS83/Anargo%20Sector%20Project/Vehicles/Macaroth3.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/CELS83/Anargo%20Sector%20Project/Vehicles/Macaroth5.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/CELS83/Anargo%20Sector%20Project/Vehicles/Macaroth4.png

A challenge to the modellers here perhaps? If you are up for the challenge...please show it to us!

athamas
30-12-2007, 22:38
looks pretty, but i dont like it.. those turrets would be bigger than a MACHARIUS's or the scaling is messed up

also the tracks dont look right to my eye...


very impressive, but not to my likeing

DaHedd
30-12-2007, 23:08
Malika, those are awesome.

I really need some insperation for my Guard armies tanks, the Russ is just looking so old and dated now.

malika
30-12-2007, 23:23
Look at another tank CELS made. The Valdor:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/CELS83/Anargo%20Sector%20Project/Vehicles/Valdor3.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/CELS83/Anargo%20Sector%20Project/Vehicles/Valdor2.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/CELS83/Anargo%20Sector%20Project/Vehicles/Valdor1.png

athamas
30-12-2007, 23:38
now that one looks nicer!

still not keep on the track shape, but still cool looking!

electric
30-12-2007, 23:45
I agree with the idea of using the Forge World Macharius and transport as the basis for the new Leman Russ and Chimera. However, I don't think they should be scaled down. Instead I think it should be the start of a move to newer sized vehicles. To me they have always seemed too small. I view tanks as this monstrosity lumbering across the battlefield, as it should. In modern warfare tanks are much more feared and respected than they seem to be on the 40k battlefield. At least around here, they do sustain some concentrated fire but are not viewed as this killing machine that I think they should be.

The argument that the weapons the men hold have changed to be deadlier shouldn't work, because the vehicles should have likewise scaled up to 41st millennium. Hopefully the rumored vehicle changes will up them to the level they seem to belong in (even transports), but this isn't the thread to discuss that. I'd like to see a change to up the threat that vehicles have, and I think that keeping the size to that of the Forge World vehicles would definitely help that.

Captain Micha
30-12-2007, 23:46
I would use a russian t72 design mated with a predator turret, and t-72 cannon.

Or I would make it look like the scorpion tank from Halo.

The rest of the model range actually looks pretty good so I would not change much else, but the leman retarded would be gone. And in it's place would be a tank worth fielding.

Stella Cadente
30-12-2007, 23:49
@Malika-they look awesome, and I could easily imagine tanks like that in 40k, and they look quite easy to make (or at least similar) with a Chimera, and a turret off something, not sure off what, but the main body is easy to imagine

malika
30-12-2007, 23:50
I think you should try to use a modified version of the Chimera hull, plastic card is your friend. :)

Stella Cadente
30-12-2007, 23:53
I think you should try to use a modified version of the Chimera hull, plastic card is your friend. :)
I'm useless with it, its far from my friends, everything would look like a box with wheels, not very scary, and turrets would be boxes...with a pen sticking out of it.

OH T-90 turrets would probably do, there we go:D

athamas
31-12-2007, 00:01
I'm useless with it, its far from my friends, everything would look like a box with wheels, not very scary, and turrets would be boxes...with a pen sticking out of it.

OH T-90 turrets would probably do, there we go:D

how do you think most people started playing with plasticard....


its just cut, test, cut, test, cut, test, cut, fit... file abit to make it fit better...

repeat...


as to the chimera hull, i will wait untill i can hold both tommorow to have a look

Bunnahabhain
31-12-2007, 00:17
I knew it was around somewhere. Not mine, but how's this for an updated Russ?

Captain Micha
31-12-2007, 00:17
That looks so much better than that plastic mistake we have now.

Senbei
31-12-2007, 00:35
Yeah, the Russ has style... But if looked at from a technical point of view it's outclassed by most WW1 tanks.

Might try re-making a salamander round this ole feller: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_FT-17

MrP
31-12-2007, 00:47
I think you should try to use a modified version of the Chimera hull, plastic card is your friend. :)

It can be tricky to get sponsons looking right on Chimaera hulled Russes. Fitting a big turret with pintles to make up for this is simplicity itself, luckily! For example:

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k98/MrP_01/DSCF0527.jpg

Scorpion
31-12-2007, 01:24
As for me, there's only a thing or two I'd change in the "new" Russ:

->A bigger turret that could conceivably carry atleast two crewmembers. Two hatches, a gunshield reminescent of the Baneblade, Lucius Pattern. Sorta like a scaled-down (plastic) Baneblade turret.

->The front hull is great, the whole "lascannon in the bunker" feel it has is great, but I wish the engine could hang more in the rear, not unlike the Mars Alpha hull.

Oh, and of course, updated lascannon and bolter! Don't dare change the tracks, WWI suspension is one of the Leman Russ' staples! Oh and NO GOTHIC ARCHES ON MY TANKS!!!!!!!!! THIS AIN'T NO PANSY ELDAR ARMOUR, SON!!!

RadiO
31-12-2007, 01:51
GW got the Russ darned near perfect with the last model they did for 2nd Edition Epic.
It was the same as the 40k take on the Russ, but:

* Longer
* Wider
* No taller proportionally than the current model
* Longer turret, with longer stowage box
* Longer, thinner gun barrel

It's clearly a Leman Russ, but far more mean looking, has a vaguely "Upgraded Sherman" vibe to its proportions, and actually looks like it might be big enough to have all them dudes and guns inside.

Spacker
31-12-2007, 03:00
For me the only changes I would make it to go the route FW took - larger turret, and the Mars hull with the better looking lascannon/bolter mount. Other than the Russ kit is one of my favourites, which probably explains why I have over 20 of them (some of them with FW turrets, but none with Mars hulls - partly because of the price, partly because most of my Russ are already built, and partly because the Mars hull doesn't actually fit together properly at the back) although I will be changing the lascannon and bolter mounts in the future to dispose of the cylindrical mounting).

Maximuspandem
31-12-2007, 03:36
Personally i think the leman russ needs the following:

1- longer slimmer barrel - the one at the moment looks like you could fire a dustbin (garbage can) out of it. its one of the things i think makes the vanquisher (of any pattern) so appealing- although i think it is important to note that in ANY re-design it will probably have to take in to account the fact that FW has made quite a few lemen russ turrets and thus they should be made compatible.

2- re-designed hull - lower profile, no tank should be as high as . although keep the current load out of heavy bolters and lascannon on the hull.

3- new tracks- there fiddly and to thin.

TheOTHERmaninblack
31-12-2007, 04:20
I agree that the Mars Alpha pattern hull would look much better, as would the vanquisher style turret they pair it with on the FW site. But I'd still like to see some *******' suspension, and an end to the over the top style track layout.

Johnnyboy
31-12-2007, 04:55
I really like the current Russ.

but if i had to change it I would do what a guy at my gaming store did. Use plasicard to build his tanks completely and throw on 40k bits for his tracks and imperial eagles. It looks like a modern M1A2 MBT

The UnNamed One
31-12-2007, 09:27
I would like to see it mounted on a hull similiar to a chimera's, it would need to be larger though. Make the barrel longer and thinner. widen the tracks. make the turret piece larger (not the gun itself).

Slaaneshi Slave
31-12-2007, 12:44
Whats wrong with it now? Why fix something that's not broken?

shutupSHUTUP!!!
31-12-2007, 12:59
Because it's pretty damn old. The main problems with the model are its massive profile and gigantic main gun. It looks like a toy. It needs to be perhaps an inch lower, have suspension, a smaller barrel and updated weapons.

Jan Polder
31-12-2007, 13:46
An inch lower? That's a bit much don't you think? What you describe sounds more like a count-as sentinel.

Cheers,

Max

Omniassiah
31-12-2007, 19:09
Nah an inch lower is about right most of the crew in the body of a tank are in a recumbent position to save height. The main body itself needs to be lower and wider with the turret being larger. One place you don't skimp on space is the turret with projectile cannons (energy weapons don't need ammo man-handled/shoved into the breach. If you excuse the massive size the baneblade is a perfect example of a tank layout with proper size proportions.

Getz
31-12-2007, 20:14
I knew it was around somewhere. Not mine, but how's this for an updated Russ?

I was going to link to that, but it looks like you beat me to it...

Basically, at the least I'd like the Russ to be slightly longer and wider, slightly lower and have a much bigger turret (not dissimilar to the scratchbuild Bunnahabhain linked to).

Alternatively a smaller Macharius or Baneblade style would make me happy.

However, what I'd really like is for the designer to rip up old design completely and go for something inspired by this...

http://www.geocities.com/gpmatthews/fv214.html

That being the British Conqueror tank from the late 50's. Naturally it would have to be 40Kified a bit, but it's the kind of straightforward, sound design that I envisage the Guard using (it's also my favourite tank ever...)

TauberAlles
31-12-2007, 20:27
I'd take an upscaled T-28 (http://www.saunalahti.fi/~ejuhola/7.62/t28.html) in one hand, and a KV-1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Kv1e.jpg) in the other, and smash 'em together.

It would look very low-tech guard, and would have a bunch of room for rivets and seams to make it shine...

dr.oetk3r
31-12-2007, 20:50
Very nice!!

Halcyon504
31-12-2007, 21:32
I would do what others have suggested here...Model a larger turret, and put it on a Chimera body. I **HATE** the high hull and the high turret, and those would be two aspects I would fix RIGHT AWAY should I had to redesign the tank. There is no fathomable reason AT ALL in 40K or in real life that a battle tank should be designed that way. STCs for battle tanks should look more like modern tanks, not those WWI POS vehicles.

**ahem**

Anyhow, Chimera plus larger turret. I rather like the Chimera design, and feel that it would've made for a better MBT chassis than the Russ ever did.

TheOTHERmaninblack
31-12-2007, 21:43
See, the problem is that not all the weapons of the Imperium were weapons in the STCs. The Rhino, for instance, was a farm tractor. The Russ? Obviously, it was a ROTOTILLER!

Halcyon504
31-12-2007, 22:05
Doesn't make it right, or good. I like to think that some stuff in 40K does adhere to some real world logic, and hence why my distaste for all tracked vehicles in 40K. The only vehicle/s I really like from a design and aesthetic POV is the Baneblade and variants, because they're the only ones that look like real tanks to some degree, only scaled up.

I can stomach the Rhino, despite the Over-The-Top track system, since it's pretty much a 40K M113 APC, but putting a turret on top and call it a tank? No way buddy!

But that's getting off topic.

shutupSHUTUP!!!
31-12-2007, 22:10
Yeah, there's no way you could put a turret on a tractor and have it "stand the test of time" as the fluff puts it. Even if it was derived from a farming vehicle undoubtably it would have been improved over time. STC designed vehicles were based on locally available materials, it's entirely possible a more advanaced Russ design came from more industralised worlds with the capacity to create more complex vehicles.

Moress
31-12-2007, 23:30
I really like the sketch that shutupSHUTUP!!! posted back on pg2(?).

I like how the russ looks currently, I actually think it looks kind of intimidating looking at it straight on from the front. I would make the tracks wider though.

Bunnahabhain
01-01-2008, 03:35
Well, for historical inspiriation, I'd look back to an IS 2- That's a Josef Stalin 2 for those who aren't working in cyrillic...

Why does it fit in the Guard?

Big check
Unsophiticated check
Effective check
Mass produced check

It even had 3 vehicle mounted machine guns. No sponsons, but 1 hull mounted, 1 co-axail, 1 on back of turret. To 40k-ify it ( if that is a word....) move turret back slightly, enlarge hull mount so it's able to take a lascannon etc, and you have something looking very much like a scaled down macharius, except with sensible tracks.

Grimbad
01-01-2008, 05:43
Now let's see... if we pour another gallon of proppa on this tank...

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t21/grimbadgrotkikka/PC154291.jpg
Much better.
Room for all the crew? check.
Intimidating? check.
Shooty? check.
Easy to make? check.
Designed by Leman Russ? ....er no. Technically not a leman russ battle tank.

Now, mr. Ordo Xenos, will you let me go?

Omniassiah
01-01-2008, 12:12
Thats awesome... Your getting a shot in the noggin' but thats awesome.

Epicenter
01-01-2008, 13:22
I don't think the LR tank needs a totally radical redesign with the proviso that if Jes Godwin did it, I'd complain about hating it on first sight. However, in a month or two it'd grow on me and in about six months, I wouldn't understand how I didn't like it at first.

That said, I'd really like the LR to be lower, a bit wider on the tracks. The bottoms pulled up just a bit to show the bogies on the roadwheels and such to suggest the tank could actually roll over anything rougher than a racetrack without pulverizing the backs of its crew.

The turret could stand to be mounted slightly more to the rear of the hull because I'd really like to see a driver's hatch in the top hull instead of the ingress/egress hatch on the front of the hull. I'd rather still see the turret mounted in the middle/middle-front of the hull though, I don't need it to be way to the rear like a Merkava (or Macharius for those not familiar with modern armor). It would be nice to see the turret enlarged to be a two-man turret with a hatch for the commander and another. I'd also like to see rear-side "escape" hatch / spent shell casing tossing port, especially if it had a small vision slit of its own and a small "pistol port" (don't worry about it if you don't know what I mean). I'd like to see the suggest that the turret is larger with room the crew could use, not the current design where it's actually just stowage bins making the turret look larger.

The hull shape I'm rather content with the Mars Alpha hull, especially the one for the newer Kreig tanks with the fabric dustcover for the hull weapon mounting. Maybe flatten and widen the engine area to fill up the entire width of the rear of the model unlike the current one to suggest a larger engine or perhaps like a BMP, to suggest dual powerplant arrangement. A redesigned exhaust manifold with an AdMech seal on it would be pretty nice as well.

EmperorEternalXIX
01-01-2008, 16:09
All I really think it needs is to be bigger, and lower to the ground. I mean, it looks like a cartoon tank next to the Chimera and Basilisk, you know?

RexTalon
01-01-2008, 22:03
I think Epicenter is on target, but I find his lack of faith in designers disturbing. ;)

I'd personally like to see a new Russ designed by Tony Cottrell. But if the design has anything to do with Warwick Kinrade I'll vomit.

pwrgmrguard
02-01-2008, 00:54
I would like to see a macharius look.flip the chassis round 180 degrees to make i backwards, slope the new front and box the new back and put the sponson and such in the front again.

I am basicly asking for a back set turret, and a squatter, wider hull.

Logan Grimnar
02-01-2008, 01:24
A vehicle named after one of the coolest primarchs should look....awesome?

RexTalon
02-01-2008, 08:35
"coolest primarch"? Hardly...

Yea, maybe they should rename it to something better as well. Maybe it should be "the Lion" Class MBT. ;)

Gen.Steiner
02-01-2008, 09:06
I knew it was around somewhere. Not mine, but how's this for an updated Russ?

Bah! I was going to post that! But you and Getz beat me to it.

If GW does feel the need to update the Russ, and they don't need to, then that lovely thing is what I want it to look like. :)

DartzIRL
02-01-2008, 18:40
I suppose.... I'd pay for that. Where did it come from anyway. Bits on it look like Ork Battlewagon...

Burnthem
02-01-2008, 19:13
Thats awesome... Your getting a shot in the noggin' but thats awesome.

hahaha, sigged :D

Romanus
03-01-2008, 09:49
I know this is slightly of topic, but this is what I did with the Chimera hull to try get a more modern looking troop transport. I am also looking at upgrading the current Rus to include many of the points suggested so far, lower profile wider turret and possibly longer. Have been toying with the idea of trying to marry the Russ kit and the Chimera kit and may give it a go over the next few days. Neways as suggested by my original post here is my Chimera with Autocannon turret. Sorry for the poor quality of the pics and the model is in a very WIP stage of painting but you get the idea.

Cheers, Rom

Epicenter
03-01-2008, 12:24
Actually, besides the suspension issues, the Chimera isn't a bad looking model, even with the tiny turret. The tiny turret reminds me a lot of the small turrets on a lot of Soviet-era Russian vehicles, most notably the BMP-1s and BTR armored cars.

Mercer
03-01-2008, 12:26
I like the Russ, just looks a bit "up right" if thats the word. As if sitting tall.

Mercer

malika
03-01-2008, 20:43
Well since we're in the topic of updated tank designs, take a look at CELS' new masterpiece, his updated Manticore:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/CELS83/Anargo%20Sector%20Project/Vehicles/Manticore1.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/CELS83/Anargo%20Sector%20Project/Vehicles/Manticore3.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/CELS83/Anargo%20Sector%20Project/Vehicles/Manticore4.png

Maybe a little bit off topic, but for some reason I had to show this to you guys on this thread.

shutupSHUTUP!!!
03-01-2008, 21:25
I think its too top-heavy. The size of the missile launcher needs to be reduced by at least 25%. I do like the style though, all the artillery guns look the same to me so it's refreshing to see a more interesting design.

Scorpion
03-01-2008, 21:39
Hehe, reminds me of the Buratino MRLS! Just one sugestion: first add some vents on the back of the rocket pod, then make the rocket pod stick out a little from the back of the hull and make the mounting articulated, so it could be rotated or elevated at will (that one seems it can barelly get the rocket pod any higher), just like the American MRLS!

Just my 0,02€!
Scorpion

CELS
04-01-2008, 07:44
Easier to ask get forgiveness than permission, eh, Malika? :D (Just kidding)

Thanks for the comments, lads. While I do see the point about it being top-heavy, I think the same argument could definitely be made about the Triplex Phall pattern Deathstrike (http://www.ifelix.co.uk/games/images2/img017/1005_2a.jpg) or Manticore (http://www.ifelix.co.uk/games/images2/img017/2021_18a.jpg). Compared to those vehicles, I'd say this isn't that bad. I would probably have made the battery more like the Buratino's, but the image is actually based on a conversion (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/CELS83/Epic/manticore-anargo-mini.png) that I made, so the shape of the battery was determined by what kind of bitz I had in mybitzbox :) (I used a Hunter-Killer missile and a Terminator Deathwind launcher)

I do agree about the mounting though. I'll probably correct that later. But the battery can be elevated up to 30 degrees, as indicated in the file above. That's the advantage of working with 3d models - you can actually test things like that :)

But yeah, it's not a perfect design. It's a simple conversion which I later decided to draw on my computer :)

PS: My Imperial tank designs are probably more realistic, but that's quite Off-topic, since they're not a Leman Russ.

Seved
04-01-2008, 08:20
I'd take an upscaled T-28 (http://www.saunalahti.fi/~ejuhola/7.62/t28.html) in one hand, and a KV-1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Kv1e.jpg) in the other, and smash 'em together.

It would look very low-tech guard, and would have a bunch of room for rivets and seams to make it shine...

I agree and the Ragnarök tank from epic looks like a KV-2.

jfrazell
04-01-2008, 16:36
I'd like to see a larger turret on a slightly less boxy tank.

Maybe more like a King Tiger from WW2

You mean like this?

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q145/jfrazell/tank005.jpg

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q145/jfrazell/tank008.jpg

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q145/jfrazell/tank001.jpg

Damage,Inc.
04-01-2008, 16:54
I would like to see both the Chimera and the Russ made to look more like their Russian inspiration. the Chimera is very closely based off of the BMP series of vehicles. As such, a slightly larger turret is about all that I would like to see from it.

The Russ needs to have a lower hull profile, and perhaps be a tad wider, or have the tracks not stick out as far on the front. A larger turret, perhaps rounded like the T72, with an optional coaxial machine gun of some sort, from stubber to heavy bolter. Also the tracks need to be spaced slightly away from the chassis so that the model doesn't look like it is flush with the ground.

Getz
04-01-2008, 21:49
You mean like this?


Interesting. What scale were the Tiger II kits? 1/48?

jfrazell
04-01-2008, 22:22
Yes indeedy. Tamiya 1/48s. its my understanding 1/36 panthers look nearly identical. The turrents are FW Vanquisher turrents.

Getz
04-01-2008, 22:31
Aside from being bigger of course... Dimensionally the hulls of the Panther and Tiger II were about the same.

RexTalon
04-01-2008, 22:45
All of these "home built" kits are making me kind of think that they should leave the Russ alone. There isn't one of them that I like. No offense.

Stella Cadente
04-01-2008, 23:07
MUST....FIND....1/48....KING TIGERS, they look just right, the only obstacle is GW getting jealous

edit: Nevermind, I just did
http://www.emodels.co.uk/plastic-kits/tamiya-german-king-tiger-production-turret-32536-p-10143.html
http://www.emodels.co.uk/plastic-kits/tamiya-king-tiger-porsche-turret-32539-p-10140.html

Seved
05-01-2008, 01:00
I find those Tiger II's ā la 40k looking quite cool, but what scale are the GW miniatures made in?

Slaaneshi Slave
05-01-2008, 01:03
I find those Tiger II's ā la 40k looking quite cool, but what scale are the GW miniatures made in?

They aren't. They are all whatever the design team thought would look cool when they were building the first prototypes.

Stella Cadente
05-01-2008, 03:53
I find those Tiger II's ā la 40k looking quite cool, but what scale are the GW miniatures made in?
they don't really have a fixed scale, but 1/35 seems to fit marines best, and 1/48 fit pretty much everything else

Seved
05-01-2008, 20:51
Hmm...so the scale is flexible. It opens up for a lot of possibilities, just as long it looks cool.

zealot!
05-01-2008, 22:30
i actually like the model and wouldnt mind if its kept the same. they could use some trench-coat guys and a new hellhound. the basilisk, chimera, and sentinels all are nice too. (especially the chimera holy crap do i love that kit, model, rules)