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grishnakh99
01-01-2008, 05:33
Hi Everyone,

Unsure of how frenzied characters in unfrenzied units work. Does the unit decide to charge at the beginning of its move phase, and if it doesn't, the character measures it's line of sight and charge distance, and if anything is in range, it charges? Is this how it works?

Sometimes it's 'iffy' if a unit is within charge range, but it seems this is a dangerous combination. If you have frenzy, at least you know they're within charge distance. Without it, you're guessing and you have to charge anyways.

So, start of turn, unfrenzied units must declare charge; you're unsure if enemies are within range, so you do not charge.

After that, frenzied units/characters must charge. You measure from the character and realize there are units just within range. He must charge. Can the unit that elected not to charge voluntarily, then now charge in the compulsory component of the movement phase (when frenzied charges occur)? I wouldn't think so as they'd be charging out of sequence.

This is especially important when it comes to charging a unit that you must wheel to hit. A single character charging out from a unit would count as a skirmishing unit when it charges, and can move faster and hit units on the side that the unit as a whole could not because of a needed wheel. This could make the situation where you know your unit cannot make the charge, so cannot declare one, and then your frenzied character must make the charge, and come bursting out of the unit.

This is also important to know if your frenzied character moves faster than the rest of the unit. You can't declare a charge you know you can't make.

Am I interpreting these rules correctly?

alextroy
01-01-2008, 06:11
Yes you are, although once the unit has passed on it's chance to charge, it cannot choose to charge with the frenzied character, they will be left behind. That is the problem with having a frenzied character in a non-frenzied unit. Sometimes he gets it in his head to charge off on his own.

Come to think about it, you'd have the same problem with a frenzied character in a frenzied unit from time to time.

grishnakh99
01-01-2008, 06:29
This brings up some very interesting baiting scenarios to get Frenzied characters out of units. Makes frenzy even harder to use than it already is. I'm thinking some fast cav on the edge that the unit wouldn't be able to wheel and hit and the character could. That would be just perfect against a Khorne Lord.

I can see people attempting charges they're sure aren't in range just so their character doesn't run out. Illegal charges I suppose; not sure how to handle that unless it's someone you know has accurate ranges for guesses.

TheDarkDaff
01-01-2008, 07:11
That is the big reason not to mount Frenzied Characters unless they are going into a Mounted unit.

If they declare the charge and can't make the distance they just suffer a failed charge. Frenzy is always hard to control (that what Chaos Hounds are for) and the extreme example of controlling Frenzy is the "mooning" Bloodthirster. He just does his Fly move and lands mooning the enemy so he isn't forced to charge.

Festus
01-01-2008, 09:59
Hi

Just a little tidbit:

Frenzied charges do not occur in the compulsory movement phase but in the move chargers phase.

Festus

alextroy
02-01-2008, 01:51
Another Tidbit:

While Frenzid charge moves take place in the Move Chargers phase, Frenzy charge declarations take place at the end of the Delcare Charges phase after all units have decidef if they will charge.

lparigi34
02-01-2008, 04:07
Problem A: A foot unit with a mounted character in it declares a charge to a nearby unit, but fails the charge distance in its attempt. The character still may complete the charge by himself. Which of the following is correct? is there a different answer?

A1.- Both units fail the charge and the character is subject to the unit movement

A.2.- The unit fails the charge, but the mounted character MUST complete the charge

A3.- The unit fails the charge, but the mounted character may complete the charge if the controlling player wishes to or instead may choose to act as #1

Problem B: What is the correct answer and how is it different is the mounted character is also frenzy?

TheDarkDaff
02-01-2008, 04:46
Another Tidbit:

While Frenzid charge moves take place in the Move Chargers phase, Frenzy charge declarations take place at the end of the Delcare Charges phase after all units have decidef if they will charge.

This is really important because you must move chargers in the order you have declared their charges. ie you declare charges with units A, B & C (in that order). When you actually move the chargers they must be moved in the A, B, C order. This means Frenzied units will always move after other units in the move chargers phase.

@ iparigi34 - I'm not to sure on the specifics but i am pretty sure that if a unit declares a charge the character is stuck in that unit and will fail the charge with it.

grishnakh99
02-01-2008, 04:54
Both fail. If the unit charges/attempts a charge the character can do nothing.

This also prevents 'simultaneous charges'. (Eg. the Character charging one unit and the Unit charges another unit).

lparigi34
02-01-2008, 14:54
It is all clear in the BRB. P.78.

The frenzied character (F-Ch) may not leave its non-frenzied (N-F) unit if it declared a charge, also because N-F unit charges are declared before frenzied ones and the character is bound to the unit charge movement.

If the N-F unit do not declare a charge, then you have to check if the F-Ch still may charge.

As Grishnakh99 pointed out, this also prevent simultaneous charges (which anyway is forbidden as per the wording of the last paragraoh in p.73).

warlord hack'a
02-01-2008, 15:21
and as for the baiting a frenzied character out of a non frenzied unit, this might very well work, just remember that characters have a 90 LOS as usual, so you need to be in the LOS of the character to pull him out of the unit.