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GundamMecha
02-01-2008, 13:21
Hi everyone

I'm sure this has most likely been covered before but I wondered what the total crew compliment for a Warhound titan should be background wise?

I know that Forgeworld only include Princeps, 2 moderati, and 2 servitors with their kit. However apart from the Titan Enginseer is there anyone else on the crew roster for this class of scout titan?

I had heard somewhere that they can have up to 4 moderati but i'm not sure if this is correct. It's important as Iam looking to acurately represent the full crew in the interior detail sections and was considering the moderati on foot set to bulk this out (a navigator, gunner, and a commander just don't seem enough for such a complex war machine).

Thanks

P.S also if anyone has some decent titan background from the Adeptus Titanicus days I'd be most grateful (colour scheme pages, history etc - forgeworlds titan entry in Imperial Armour is woefully brief).

Chaos Undecided
02-01-2008, 13:39
Going from Forgeworld's version of things a titan crew consists of the princeps, two moderati several servitors and a techpriest.

The princeps oversee overall command of the titan and all its systems
the first Moderati is the driver and navigator
the second acts as gunnery commander and sensors officer
the various servitors are hardewired into the gun, shield and engineering systems
and the techpriest looks after the engine core.

This somewhat differs to the older epic version of things where the princeps and moderati directly linked and communed with the titan, the princeps controlling the movement and overall operation of the titan whilst each moderati was in direct control of an individual weapon and could actually see what that weapon's sensors saw. There still probably was priests and servitors involved in the overall operation of the titan however. This may be where the idea of more moderati came from as the large titans had more weapon systems and therefore required more moderati appropriately.

GundamMecha
02-01-2008, 13:54
Thanks for the feedback thats most appreciated!

I'm really suprised that for such a large and important kit in forgeworlds catalogue that it recieves such little attention in terms of imperial armour background and colour schemes.

I'm suprised given all the work that went into the krieg material that titans don't get much more established background and info.

There is so much to write about from the old adeptus titanicus material.

Perhaps legal issues with old GW IP have led to this lack of present information and the ever changing 40K background. GW's new is best ideal often ruins the more established material that we gamers and modellers consider to be true canon.

Mechanicus
02-01-2008, 13:59
Canon isn't always the most recent material - GW's thankfully given interpretation the front seat now.

In this case, it's likely that the princeps, moderati, servitors and techpriest are all that is on the Warhound, though the Warlord, Reaver and Imperator would all have more crew.

As to the roles of the crew - see my first statement. Exceptions, mistakes and misunderstandings... choose the one you want. :)

And besides - nothing contradicts that the moderati (or one of them, at any rate) are locked into the mind impulse unit of the Titan in at least a small way.

As to material from Adeptus Titanicus - could you be more specific, or is it just general information of colour schemes, Forgeworlds and Titan Legions, etc?

GundamMecha
02-01-2008, 14:16
I'm after colour schemes and colour templates mostly, as well as names of legions.

Also any fluff about the workings of the titan. As I understand it Only princeps have direct mind links to the machine spirit, whilst the moderati act as regular crew men working on overseeing general systems and weapons.

Forgeworld seem to say now that servitors man the weapons.

The thing I don't like is the dependance of servitors on such vital systems, surely they would not leave this to mindless drones? If a baneblade or a shadowsword requires a full human crew surely a titan would need one also as it even more complex. Or perhaps the implication is that the machine spirit itself controls the servitors?

I wonder to what extent that the machine spirit is actually in control of the titan. Fluff says that its self aware, and if a land raider can be controlled by a basic non sentient machine spirit then surely the titan must have more input over operations. Fluff i've read suggests that the princeps is there primarily to keep the machine spirit on a leash and control its blood lust. But surely there must be more to it that destructive tendencies?

I'm doing a lot of scratch building and converting in the interiror details and I want to make it as correct as possible really.

I managed to dig up some background fluff from wikipedia but i have no idea how reliable it is.

Chainsworded Codpiece
02-01-2008, 16:09
I'm after colour schemes and colour templates mostly, as well as names of legions.

Check out www.belloflostsouls.blogspot.com. they have schemes (and you can even make transfers) for both the Legio Metalica and the Legion known as the MorningStars, both Loyalists. Further, they have the same for a couple of traitor Legions, the Flaming Skulls (IIRC) and the StormLords.


Also any fluff about the workings of the titan. As I understand it Only princeps have direct mind links to the machine spirit, whilst the moderati act as regular crew men working on overseeing general systems and weapons.
Forgeworld seem to say now that servitors man the weapons.
The thing I don't like is the dependance of servitors on such vital systems, surely they would not leave this to mindless drones? If a baneblade or a shadowsword requires a full human crew surely a titan would need one also as it even more complex. Or perhaps the implication is that the machine spirit itself controls the servitors?

Yeah, it used to be that the systems were controlled by sentients such as the Moderati, in direct electrical/electrochemical/brain-type linkage.

I can't say I'm too happy with the change either.


I wonder to what extent that the machine spirit is actually in control of the titan. Fluff says that its self aware, and if a land raider can be controlled by a basic non sentient machine spirit then surely the titan must have more input over operations. Fluff i've read suggests that the princeps is there primarily to keep the machine spirit on a leash and control its blood lust. But surely there must be more to it that destructive tendencies?

Well, it's an instinctive control is used to make it viable as a moving machine, for one. With the Princeps and Moderati controlling the "important" stuff that requires human tactical and strategic thinking, the reactions of the machine to terrain shift underfoot, small things (like gaunts) crawling on its foreleg, and other input that benefits from more "instinctive" and automatic reactions, is the purview of the "codified animal-analogue" in the wetware.

Without the "spirit", the Moderati et al would be controlling EVERY aspect of movement and reaction, and the fighting capability of the titan-as-legged-and-armed beastie would be severely reduced. It would likely have the same maneuvering capability as an RT-Era Killa Kan Ork Dread, while still presenting the same overlarge target.

Chaos Undecided
02-01-2008, 16:20
Its not really correct to think of Servitors as mindless drones, its true they no longer have the higher brain functions of a normal human but they have been reprogrammed and mechanically upgraded to perform the function they have been intended for and that alone. So the Moderati in charge of weapons for instance can get on with the task of identify which targets to fire upon and monitor incoming threats whilst able to leave it to the servitor to handle the technical side like power allocation, aiming, recharging and so forth a task for which its entire existence is now based upon. They're essentially biological operating systems (which are hopefully a bit more reliable then windows)

Mr_Rose
02-01-2008, 16:29
The Servitors don't "man" the weapons; they are the weapons. Each one is acting as a massively complex and enormously powerful pattern seeking engine* for the weapon sensors, identifying and cataloguing any and all potential targets and separating them from the background, plus a few other less important tasks. This data is then transmitted to the weapons Moderati through the MIU so that he can select an appropriate target for each weapon to fire upon, as well as observe the weapon's performance and keep the Princeps informed of anomalies and errors.
The servitor isn't in charge of anything any more than the plasma constrictor coils or the hydraulic feed lines are.


*aka "brain"

Chainsworded Codpiece
02-01-2008, 16:33
Each one is acting as a massively complex and enormously powerful pattern seeking engine* for the weapon sensors, identifying and cataloguing any and all potential targets and separating them from the background, plus a few other less important tasks. This data is then transmitted to the weapons Moderati through the MIU so that he can select an appropriate target for each weapon to fire upon, as well as observe the weapon's performance and keep the Princeps informed of anomalies and errors.
*aka "brain"

OK, then. that sounds more like what I would hope for. I thought, from the way it was being described in previous posts, that the Fluff had changed substantially. Phew.

Chaos and Evil
02-01-2008, 17:04
Think of the Servitors as part of the Princeps nervous system, as a muscle or an extra eyeball.

When the Princeps is attached to the titan, he can feel what they can feel, and he can use their abilities as if they were part of his own body; When the servitor activates the Turbo laser, it is because the Princeps willed him to do it.


Standard Warhound crew appears to be:

1 Princeps
2 Moderati
At least 2 Servitors
1 Enginseer Techpriest


Standard Reaver crew appears to be:

1 Princeps
2 (Possibly 3) Moderati. (In the old background it used to be 3, but FW's new model seems to have only 2).
At least 3 Servitors
1 Enginseer Techpriest.

Burnthem
02-01-2008, 18:40
The Titan itself keeps itself upright, puts one foot in front of the other etc etc, much like our brains do, we want to walk somewhere, so we do it. The Princeps wants to go somewhere, so the Titan does it, without the Princeps having to think *left leg step* *right leg step* *left leg step* etc etc. Just think of it as the same way our brains coordinate conscious thoughts and wishes and sub-conscious movement like breathing and maintaining your balance :)

GundamMecha
04-01-2008, 08:21
I found this info on Lexicanum, does anyone know how accurate it is?

The Warhound's full crew numbers 12 (this includes 4 servo-skulls). In the forward cockpit the Princeps and two Moderatii pilot the machine. Two Techpriests and three Servitors attend to the engine and reactor, as well as making emergency repairs in the heat of battle.

I like the sound of this layout, also it allows me to do what I want in the interior detail sections. I'd like to model crew there and I think two techpriests is a more likeoly number given the titans complexity.

Any ideas on this? I imagine its drawn from very old Adeptus Titanicus fluff?

Hellebore
04-01-2008, 08:46
Well apart from there not being enough room in the back of the warhound for more than one techpriest, I'm not sure how you'd get 2 of them.

Hellebore

Burnthem
04-01-2008, 16:19
And counting Servo Skulls as crew is a bit strange! Have to agree that only one TechPriest per Warhound sounds right...

Dominus_Serui
04-01-2008, 18:12
I don't think the number of Moderati EVER goes over two, I meen, if we use the Titan comics as reference, even Warlords have their main crew composing of two Moderati and one Princeps - you then of course have the weapons-servitors, the crew-servitors and on a warhound I'm pretty sure its one Techpriest. Not to mention a few Skitarri as security.

GundamMecha
08-01-2008, 09:56
I don't think the number of Moderati EVER goes over two, I meen, if we use the Titan comics as reference, even Warlords have their main crew composing of two Moderati and one Princeps - you then of course have the weapons-servitors, the crew-servitors and on a warhound I'm pretty sure its one Techpriest. Not to mention a few Skitarri as security.

Thanks for this Dominus. Actually I'm quite liking the idea of including a Skitarri in there instead of a second techpriest. Or at least using them in the diorama in some way. Perhaps using the moderati on foot with the las gun as the basis for a conversion.

DOes anyone have any actual reference material for how Skitari should look? I should imagine theres a great deal of freedom to model them as you want.

bosstroll
08-01-2008, 10:23
Thanks for this Dominus. Actually I'm quite liking the idea of including a Skitarri in there instead of a second techpriest. Or at least using them in the diorama in some way. Perhaps using the moderati on foot with the las gun as the basis for a conversion.

DOes anyone have any actual reference material for how Skitari should look? I should imagine theres a great deal of freedom to model them as you want.

There isnt much on the actual looks of skitarii. But i always see them as a cross of a techpriest and a guardsman.

Dominus_Serui
08-01-2008, 11:49
Theres a description of a titan guard in the earlier chapters of the second HH book, one that would personally incline me to believe that the forgeworld moderati model would be a decent basis if you were going to shell out...I've allways viewed the skitarri as more or less heavily bioniced Guardsmen, though not quite as far as servitors and the elder techpriests...

When I do eventually get round to making a skitarri force I'm personally inclined towards respirators, bionics and mars-red uniforms, preferably great cloaks. After all they're basically weaker and more numerous servitors.

GundamMecha
08-01-2008, 13:33
Theres a description of a titan guard in the earlier chapters of the second HH book, one that would personally incline me to believe that the forgeworld moderati model would be a decent basis if you were going to shell out...I've allways viewed the skitarri as more or less heavily bioniced Guardsmen, though not quite as far as servitors and the elder techpriests...

When I do eventually get round to making a skitarri force I'm personally inclined towards respirators, bionics and mars-red uniforms, preferably great cloaks. After all they're basically weaker and more numerous servitors.

I've actually got a left over Moderati on foot with a lasgun. So I could always play around with converting that. I too had always seen them as guard with bionics, however I don't think they would be as venerable (ie with cloaks and robes etc) as enginseers and techpriests.

It would be interesting to see that Titan guard description, does anyone have a reference to it?

Dominus_Serui
08-01-2008, 15:51
'Jonah approached a thick, iron door guarded by two soldiers in burnished black breastplates over silver mail shirts. Each wore a mask fashioned in the shape of the Legio's death's head and was armed with a short jolt-stick and a holstered jolt-pistol.'

So essentially, skull-masked, armoured guards with a laspistol and close-combat weapon.