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View Full Version : 2000 Ogres vs High elves: God takes over



Malorian
02-01-2008, 16:44
I still hadn't faced the new high elves and wanted to give it a try. My buddy knew the new rules fairly well even though is not one of his teams and we didn't have the rule book, so we gave it a try.

This was my list:

Bruiser w/ heavy armor, tenderizer, sword gnoblar
Butcher w/ bang stick
Butcher w/ dispel scroll

3 Iron guts X3
3 Bulls w/ extra hand weapons X4
3 Bulls X2
20 Gnoblars X6

Gorger X2

His list was:

Lvl 4 mage lord w/ some item that made any doubles to cast count as irresistible force
Lvl 2 mage (I don't know what he had, but I think he had a bound item)

20 Swordmasters w/ full command
20 Pheonixguard w/ full command and banner that gave him extra power dice
10 Archers
10 Archers

Lion chariot

Bolt thrower X4

He rolled for heavens for both of his mages and then rolled for a spell from a different lore, which is why I assume that other mage had some special item it was for.


The board had a few bits of forest but other than 1 a bit of to the left of my zone, 1 in the right part of his zone and 1 in the back center of his the other didn't matter.

I deployed 5 units of gnoblars in a screen and the other gnoblar unit had an irongut unit behind it on the left side of the trees. Behind the screen going from left to right I had bulls, ironguts, bulls (with bruiser), ironguts, bulls. Behind them I had from left to right naked bulls (with bangstick butcher), bulls, naked bulls (with other butcher)

He deployed (from my view) the pheonix guard to the left of the sword masters (a mage in each) and they were more to the left of the board. To their left was a bolt thrower and a unit of archer and to their right was 2 bolt throwers and the other unit of archers. On the other side of the forest on the right he had his last bolt thrower.


Pre-game thoughts: At this point I didn't know what would happen. There was a lot more shooting than I had expected since most of the battle reports I'd seen had been infantry heavy and was also surprised to see no dragon (my gnoblars love dragons). I still believed my screen could handle the shooting and if I picked on 1 unit and left the other to kill only a few sacrificial units I would end up on top. I know the sword masters are scary so I planned to go after the pheonix guard.


Turn 1

I got first turn and none of my gnoblars bickered so I marched up as fast as I could. My magic phase went REALLY well and I got off +1 toughness and stubborn on both the units my butchers were with, and only 1 butcher took a wound, and my bang stick killed 3 swordmasters. Pretty good magic phase I'd say.

The high elves didn't move on their turn and went on to the magic phase. He got the comet off by I dispel scrolled it, and his shooting just killed some gnoblars. (Through out the game he casted the spell that let him reroll 1's to hit and wound on his bolt throwers but it never helped so I won't mention it) His shooting teared into the gnoblars causing a good handful of dead gnoblars and it caused the left most unit of my 5 unit screen to run, running through my ogres and ending up behind.

Turn 2

My gnoblars on the left bickered, trapping the iron guts behind them, but other than that I was fine. The running gnoblars rallied and I moved up again. One gorger cam in and I placed him so he would hit a bolt thrower on the right and then overrun into his archers. My magic was all stopped.

On his turn he realized he hadn't deployed his chariot and so he set it up behind the archers so that when I overran into the archers he could charge me (…no comment…). In his magic phase I did my best to ease the pain but he took a wound off my butcher's unit that had lost it's screen and got off comet again. His shooting killed the wounded ogre and killed another handful of gnoblars but they stayed… the bulls didn't however and ran through the bulls behind them which also ran (this is why my gnoblar screen is so important). 2 bolt throwers did a single shot to the gorger but only did 1 wound.

Turn 3

We both watched as the dice rolled and I was happy to see the comet didn't land this turn. None of my noblars bickered and my bulls rallied. My gorger charged into the bolt thrower, and ran them down into the archers. The gnoblar unit on the right stared toward his bolt thrower on the other side of the right trees and the rest moved up. I put one unit in charge range of the pheonix guard to bait them out. My magic went mostly into stopping the comet. With a handful of dispel dice he got rid of my remain in play spells. After I did nothing with my sharp stuff that was the end of my turn. (It was at this time I remembered that pheonix guard now have a ward save and that my choice in targets was wrong)

On his turn he charged the gorger with the lion chariot and killed it, although the last wound had to be done by an archer. The pheonix guard charged and I fled, getting away and ending up behind my ogres. The bolt thrower the other gorger was going to charged moved out of it's line of sight and the archers reformed to face the gorger. His magic and shooting was more deadly this time as he killed a lot more gnoblars (one unit was down to two) and did some wounds to the ogres. He also got comet off again.

Turn 4

Again we watched as the dice was rolled and once again the comet didn't land. None of my gnoblars bickered and the unit that was running rallied. The unit of gnoblars on the right charged the bolt thrower crew, the gorger wanted to charge but was out of range so he just moved closer. I did a massive charge on the pheonix guard. Two units went after the right flank, and two units (one with my bruiser) went to it's front. I was surprised to see them flee, and with them running 11 inches all of my charges were failed. Seeing that I was now in trouble from the swordmasters I moved the 2 gnoblars in front of them as a sacrifice. The gnoblars won combat thanks to outnumber and ranks and ran the crew down. To start off my magic I tried to get bone cruncher on the swordmasters but I miscast and rolled a 1 so that butcher died and the other butcher took d3 wounds and got the full 3. Since he was the one that had taken the wound on turn 1 it meant he was dead too and that I now had no magic at all. I used my last dispel dice to try and stop the comet but I failed.

On his turn the comet did come down and it hurt. It hit the unit of gnoblars that had just rallied killing several and sending them running. It left one unit of bulls with just one bull remaining who fled. It killed an irongut and wounded another. It killed 2 ogres from the bruisers unit and that fled forward going over the gnoblars and ended right infront of the swordmasters. The 2 gnoblars that were just ran over by the panicing bruiser paniced themselves and ran. At this point he could start his normal turn… he charged the brusiers unit who had to flee and were run down. The swordmasters overran into the ironguts and they were quickly killed as well. The chariot moved over so it would see past the archers. His pheonix guard rallied. In his magic phase he got off the comet AGAIN!!! And his shooting killed the last gorger and wounded some more ogres.

Turn 5

The comet didn't land and none of my gnoblars bickered. A battered unit of bulls charged the archers on the right and had no loses from stand and shoot. I tried to charge the pheonix guard with two units of 2 bulls each but the one that was further back (ironguts) were too far away and failed the charge so only 1 unit got in. My 1 running ogre rallied. And my running gnoblars kept running. In the archer combat he did 1 wound which was enough to kill one of the bulls and the other bull killed 2 archers so it was a drawn combat. My bulls charging the pheonix guard did no wounds and the remaining bull got run down. I tried to dispel the comet with my 2 dice and it obviously didn't work. My gnoblars on the left killed 2 archers with sharp stuff and that was my turn.

Guess what happened on his turn? Yup, the comet fell. It wasn't big enough to his units but it was enough to smash the gnoblars that had just killed 2 archers which sent them running off the board. It killed the last unit of iron guts, and killed an ogre and a few wounds to another unit. Did I ever mention I HATE comet? When his turn actually started he made the joke that there were no more good places to put the comet since everything was dead. His chariot charged a unit of bulls, killed them and went into another unit behind them. My ogre killed 1 archer and it was a drawn combat again. The swordmasters charged the single bull and killed him. He might have done some damage with magic and shooting but it didn't matter at this point. The highlight of this turn for me was that he didn't cast comet…

Turn 6

There was nothing left for me to do and this turn the high elves just mopped up what was left. At the end of the game I had the one ogre still fighting the archers and about 30 gnoblars alive.

Result: Absolute slaughter for the high elves…


Post-game thoughts: That was horrible. Between my butchers exploding and having two comets smash my army to bits I'd have to say the MVP of the game was god… there weren't really any huge tactical errors I made and the game was mostly spent dealing with what bad luck brought me. It was looking so good on turn 2 too… To be serious though my MVP would be the gnoblars in general. Out of 6 units only one bickered the whole game. They kept the damage off the ogres the best they could and even ended up killing a boltthrower, 2 archers and holding a table quarter.

I probably should have set up the gorger so it would hit a bolt thrower and then go into another bolt thrower rather than the archer, but you can't do anything when there are ghost chariots that magically appear… I don't think charging everything at the pheonix guard was a mistake because I had to do it. It was my only chance of beating them.

Thoughts?

Jack of Blades
02-01-2008, 17:25
Woah, some horrible things there. I think you shouldn't screen your Ogres with gnoblars, and put a third Butcher in there. Screening with Gnoblars may look good on paper, but it does little for you in the end. You'd be able to cover the table faster without them, the chances of trapping your units because of Bicker isn't there, and with a third Butcher having the Skullmantle and a Dispel Scroll you can protect them better. I'd also upgrade the Bruiser to a Tyrant. You don't really want the Tenderiser at all against HE, you'll probably paste what you hit anyway. I'd just go with a regular GW or take the Thundermace for the chance of obliterating Swordmasters and the like and you're feeling lucky.

Other than that... it's fine :)
Maybe try some Leadbelchers? they're quite damn nasty against Swordmasters and such. As far as I know, they ignore their armour, hit on 4+, wound on 3+ and get a boatload of shots. Negate the misfires with either Toothcracker or Trollguts. The Hellheart is also a really nice item against magic-heavy armies, especially against that item which lets him cast with IF on any double. Pop it and watch him risk his wizards and potentially the models around them, or shut down his magic phase, for that amount of points it could be a serious help. What's the use in having a dispel scroll when you can just make him kill himself and/or stop his magic phase? :D


He didn't seem to heavy on dispel equipment either. With your 3 Butchers and the Bangstick, I'd cast a Bonecruncher with 2 dice/Butcher and the Bangstick until they (the unit you want to) die. Apply that to any other unit you need to destroy. Stacked Bonecrunchers with the Bangstick is really nasty with 2 dice per Cruncher!

DarthBinky
02-01-2008, 18:18
What's this about the wizard taking a spell from another Lore? I can't find anything like that in the High Elf book. Unless he took a third character, to whom he gave the Radiant Gem of Hoeth (character becomes a level 1 wizard; no effect on someone who already is a wizard). But you only listed the two mages...

As a High Elf player (I play OK too, but don't have a lot of experience with them yet), I agree with the above about his points on magic. Hellheart, while only a once per game item, will still pretty much shut down his magic phase for one turn (and/or have a good chance of killing his wizards... that Gut Magic miscast table is brutal). Getting a greatskull in there somewhere couldn't hurt either- I've had it used against me. :(

One thing I've seen done with gnoblars to good effect is to field them in conjunction with a larger ogre unit bearing the Rune Maw. Keep one or two units of gnoblars behind the ogres yet still within range for the banner, that way they won't stop your advance due to bicker/slower movement rate. It's always better to have those gnoblars getting blasted than your big expensive Irongut (or whatever) unit...

Malorian
02-01-2008, 18:37
I guess the first thing I have to say is that this is my standard 2000 list. It was in no way changed to fight high elves. I would have loved to have leadbeltchers and scraplaunchers, but what can you do...

I play against a lot of shooty/warmachine heavy teams and I NEED the gnoblars or I'd be shot to bits. Bickering does effect me as badly because each unit is matched, so if one unit bickers it only stops one unit of bulls while the other 5 units move on. They also give me throw away units to take charges and allow me to counter charge. The units that flee and rally can hold my table quarters which almost makes up their points just for that, and finally my army moving slowly gives me more time to place my gorgers. By the time my screen is gone the gorgers are in place and the enemy is in trouble.

It didn't workout this game but I think my ogres are now 8-4-3 so usually it does : )

For characters I know a lot of people say you need 3 butchers and a tyrant but in my MSU style army it just takes out too much. Not having a tyrant has hurt me pretty badly in some games, but in most it's not a big deal as my hero can take on most lords ; )

As far as that other magic thing goes, I have no idea. I tried asking when he was rolling for his spells but he didn't want to say anything. Really I'm not suppose to know his list and items before hand so it was no big deal and I assumed it would be revealed at some point, but it never was...

Jack of Blades
02-01-2008, 19:15
Oh yeah, I forgot the gut magic miscast table .. well, rolling on the gut magic miscast table hurts you more than them... that's because about half of them are devastating to other butchers. But it only butchers. Not a good idea >.<

I wouldn't trust your opponent for a bit with that kind of style.

Malorian
02-01-2008, 19:37
We're pretty regular opponents, and we aren't the type to cheat : ) He might have gotten a rule wrong because he was doing the list by what he remembered (since he didn't have the army book on him) but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't make stuff up.

Looking back I think it might have been best to avoid both big units. Just tie them up and load them down with gnoblars and then kill everything else. Those units were crazy expensive and they would have to kill a lot to make it worth while...

Jack of Blades
02-01-2008, 20:06
Hmm yeah. You could always just scrap magic and get a BSB. That'll teach those Gnoblars to hold. Or keep your 2 butchers.

BigRob
02-01-2008, 20:19
We always used a house rule that stuff not deployed or forgotten baout isn't allowed to "magically appear". At the very least have it come on as a reserve from your board edge, counting as moving tha tturn (so no charges) which would have left your gorger free to have more elf fun.

Must agree tha tgnoblar screens are not my cup of tea, I prefere speedy ogres. Leadbelchers could certainly help, a couple on the flank having a quick shot at the swordmasters.

Good Luck for next time

123DeMaere
02-01-2008, 22:57
The painful part was the comet. Its not god, its unit size. a bunch of units at 3 ogres strong just get killed with a 2d6 s4 hits. and becasue of your blocking style your units were really close all game. and I wasn't using a magical item(he had two despel scrolls) I was rolling to use a different LORE(because you said how much you hate heavens) but then you stopped me. you had a really good chance to beat me until your mages killed themselves and my comets could come on down at their will.

Ps- this was a proxy game because he REALLY wantted to try the new high elves on. and most HE lists have even more magic which could hurt him.(the chariot thing was my bad though...)

SevenSins
03-01-2008, 18:54
interesting report, and an unusual OK list (to me at least)
Would never do the gnoblar screen as I got into fantasy with ogres to not have so many models to paint :)

I agree that the chariot should have entered as reserves though

warlord hack'a
04-01-2008, 19:13
sorry to say it but the OK list is 2260 points, in your deployment you mention one less naked bulls unit, but still that would put you 155 points over the max of 2000. What's happening?

As for the rest, in our gaming group when someone forgets to deploy something they can deploy it if we feel like it, but only where it does not have an immediate effect on the game. Who knows what would have happened if his chariot did not kill your gorger?

Malorian
04-01-2008, 19:19
There is an extra unit that wasn't actual there (only 2 naked bull units) and the list has been fixed. The extra weapon ogres are also only units of 3, not 4. Usually I just state them in seperate lines and I was trying to simplify it. Guess I mixed up the numbers.

And my list isn't over when you take that into account.

warlord hack'a
04-01-2008, 19:29
aha, got it, that's why I wondered what was happening ;-). Nice report though some pictures might help to keep track of which bull unit is where, or is it just me getting foggy on my old age (just turned 32 after all ;-)).

Malorian
04-01-2008, 19:35
In this one it didn't matter much except for my failed attempt to take out his pheonix guard. Other than than it was just a mass moving up and getting creamed by comets...

Dwarf Runelord 45
05-01-2008, 22:57
Wow..... that was really bad. I hate the comet too.

TheSanityAssassin
08-01-2008, 12:18
I believe you said the High Elf player didn't actually have the book, so things can be forgiven, but a couple things weren't quite bang on, just to let you know.

The High Elf spell that you were wondering about would have probably been "curse of arrow attraction" which lets them re-roll missed to hits with arrows, (nothing to do with 1's or wounding) though if they both took Heavens there should have been no way to get it....no way for them to take 2 lores.

Also, the whole Chariot thing wasn't exactly kosher....

That said, I think going faster with your Ogres would do you a lot of good. And as scary as Swordsmasters are you'd do Ok cost for cost using your impact hits on them. That goeseven before ASF...

Still....miserable luck with the magic phase and break tests really kille you...

Xaskus
11-01-2008, 03:35
About the whole comet incident, those big ticket magic spells can cripple even the best battle plan. In a tournament once, I had this Dogs of War player's last few units practically cornered with six units of my WE including an treeman ancient, wardancers, wild riders, and a couple units of dryads. Then two turns in a row he gets the last lore of light spell off with irresistable force and destroys everyone of those units. So as you said God can be mean.

The Dutchman
23-01-2008, 14:31
The High Elf spell that you were wondering about would have probably been "curse of arrow attraction" which lets them re-roll missed to hits with arrows, (nothing to do with 1's or wounding) though if they both took Heavens there should have been no way to get it....no way for them to take 2 lores.

The 1st spell in the Lore of Heavens is Portent of Far. 5+ to cast, a friendly unit within 12" (even in CC) gets to reroll 1's to hit and to wound.