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Caboose123
03-01-2008, 00:32
Hey all, this is my first empire list in a while; I'm not sure on the points, at the moment they are a "guesstimate"

The Arch-Alchemist
High Mage, Lv4, Crimson amulet, Power stone (philosopher stone).
=235 (generally chooses lore of metal)


Zergus the Feral
Battle Mage, Von Horstman's Speculum
=85 (chooses lore of beasts and chooses the bears anger. Nasty eh?)


Combustable Bob
Battle Mage, Lv2, Dispel Scroll
=120 (chooses any other lore, not necessarily fire)


Abbot "evil scum don't mess with me" Murphy
Warrior Priest, Armour of Meteoric Iron, Great weapon
=119


_____________

10 handgunners
=80

10 handgunners
=80

10 handgunners
=80

25 swordsmen, shields, full command
=225

10 Detachment, militia
=50

25 swordsmen, shield, full command
=225

10 Detachment, militia
=50

___________

19 Greatswords, full command
=258

10 Detachment, militia
=50

Mortar
=75

Cannon
=100


____________

Hellblaster volley gun
=125

20 flaggelants, prophet
=232


Army Total:2249
Power Dice:9
Dispel Dice:6

It is a magic-heavy empire list... :) I'm not sure if the bears anger would be applied to his new stats in a challenge I assume they aren't. The list usually fights, Dark Elves /Chaos/ High Elves or Orks.
Any advise would be appreciated
~Thank you

Caboose123
03-01-2008, 21:49
Any comments? I want to make this into a 2k list, and also expand to a 3k list...


[Shameless Bump]

bigbear bailey
04-01-2008, 09:35
Good list but you need to make the Feral guy a lv 2. Otherwise it's not really a heavy magic list, just one that's really good at defending against it. Hell, why not amke the warrior priest a scroll cady at lv one and bam you have a army I've never seen before...

bigbear bailey
04-01-2008, 09:41
Good list but you need to make the Feral guy a lv 2. Otherwise it's not really a heavy magic list, just one that's really good at defending against it. Hell, why not amke the warrior priest a scroll cady at lv one and bam you have a army I've never seen before...

warlord hack'a
04-01-2008, 10:12
9 powerdice is not really magic heavy, you need to add some magic items that let you reroll dice or store them or gives you + on your casting roll or some bound spells (orb of thunder will be nice to stop those flyers form eating up your guns!) that you can unleash after the opponent spent his dice on countering your spells. Right now you invest a LOT of points in magic and few armies are afraid of 9 powerdice without some goodies to back them up..

Caboose123
04-01-2008, 16:47
Bear in mind that it has a power level 3 prayer aswell, the priest can't have arcane items IIRC, and zergal only needs to be lv 1 as he is casting a 4+ spell, which, with 2 dice is easy, and its remains in play, another level and he will have to forego casting the bears, but i see your point; the preist kinda has to stay, he gives me some CC punch and also happens to have a prayer.

Ammendments: Make Zergal Lv.2 and give the arch alchemist the doomfire ring, take out the mortar, because if the mages do their job it won't be necessary

Is this any better?

warlord hack'a
04-01-2008, 19:33
well yes, but you will still not dominate the magic field I think (which is something that is harder to do with empire than with some other armies). I think that with your list I would prefer the orb of thunder but please note that I am an O&G player who hates enemy fliers (since only our warlord has a flying monster option so we usually do not field flyers, nor do we have tunnelers, or scouts) and your list will greatly benefit from more turns of shooting with the warmachines and blasting with the mages..
One other note, you mention that Zergal ' chooses' the bears hunger, but by my knowlegde you have to roll for spells, you can't choose them (unless you are a slann, possible HE? or have an item that allows you to do so), so there is no choosing for him (or am I unaware of a rule?).

And one last remark: going magic heavy means your ld will suffer, you highest ld is 8, not very impressive.. So take out any enemy shooting and magic first as it will take only three dead handgunners to force the first panic test on that unit..

Borthcollective
04-01-2008, 20:57
Bear's Anger is spell 1 on the Beasts Lore. You can always opt to take the first spell.

RavenBloodwind
04-01-2008, 21:24
Aside from the merits and limitations of the mage-heavy Empire list there are a couple of other issues:

All 3 of your handgunner units could be converted to detachments and thereby prevent them causing panic checks when they inevitably run.

Since you have a warrior priest your flagellant unit is actually core, so this plus your two infantry blocks keeps you at the necessary core requirement.

Your greatswords need one extra model if you want to keep your detachments at 10 in number. The detachment size max is 1/2 parent rounded down.

As stated above, you will hardly dominate the magic phase with your current build. More magic levels, more bound spells and maybe the arcane item that lets you store power/dispel dice. If you can't get 12 dice at 2250 you're really not going to succeed in the magic-domination game. Combine this with the less-than-stellar leadership and your force starts to get a tad bit fragile.

Caboose123
05-01-2008, 01:02
Yeah Orb of thunder has to go on the arch-alchemist i suppose, in a tournament the orb can be great, if they dont have fliers its wasted, but if they do it HAS to be dispelled every turn.
Has to be rounded down?... in that case 1 more greatsword is needed
Slight list adjustment then to make the handgunners detachments, the handgunners won't cause panic tests anyway nowadays unless they flee through a unit (which is very unlikely, they'd had needed to be deployed up front), or if they are completely destroyed, which is again unlikely (after reducing their numbers the opponent will normally start shooting the other handgunner units... unless they are very crafty... I don't think all 3 units will be shot at much as all/most my magic will be concentrated on their shooting units.
I will post a new list with the above changes in a minute...

I think the list is actually magic heavy it has more bound spells than most which is better and harder to dispel than more magic, lists with 12 power dice may be stronger, but most shouldn't have the same volume of bound spells. Bound spells are harder to dispel as people who face TK regularly should know

now looking for comments on the new list... when its up

Caboose123
05-01-2008, 02:31
Hey all, new list, with blackjack and ...

The Arch-Alchemist
High Mage, Lv4, Crimson amulet, Power stone (philosopher stone), Orb of Thunder.
=265 (generally chooses lore of metal)


Zergus the Feral
Battle Mage, Lv2, Von Horstman's Speculum.
=120 (chooses lore of beasts and chooses the bears anger. Nasty eh?)


Combustable Bob
Battle Mage, Lv2, Dispel Scroll
=120 (chooses any other lore, not necessarily fire)


Abbot "evil scum don't mess with me" Murphy
Warrior Priest, Doomfire Ring, Heavy Armour, Shield, Barded Steed, Great weapon
=144


_____________


26 swordsmen, shields, full command
=231
11 Detachment, militia
=55
10 Detachment, handgunners
=80

25 halberdiers, shield, full command
=225
10 Detachment, militia
=50
10 Detachment, handgunners
=80

20 flaggelants, prophet
=232


___________

20 Greatswords, full command
=268
10 Detachment, militia
=50
10 Detachment, handgunners
=80

Cannon
=100


____________

Hellblaster volley gun
=125


NEW POINTS TOTAL!!! -> 2250

Ok List MKIII thats why thses forums are handy ^^
Didnt really have room for the ring (no seriously!) so got rid of the armour of meteoric armour and gave him a barded steed, may give him a shield too, and i think i had some points left so i added a militia man "Jimmy" for 5 points

bigbear bailey
05-01-2008, 12:17
Looks good and I would use the other points to add more men for the casese of being shot... good solid list though...

Caboose123
05-01-2008, 17:00
36 points left
+2 halberdiers - 12
+2 swordsmen - 12
+1 militia to swordsmen and halberdier detachments - 10
_________________________________________________
2 points left!

Any other comments, plus this list started as a 2k list... how to get it back down? or up to 2.k for slightly larger games?

RavenBloodwind
05-01-2008, 17:36
36 points could equally well be a doomfire ring and a swordsman. I'm still concerned that you really don't have enough magic in total. The extra bound item should help.

Caboose123
05-01-2008, 17:51
Blasted ring was meant to be in the list!
Scratch the numbers a doomfire ring is, i agree, necessary.

Doomfire Ring - 30 points
Swordsman "Bob" - 6 points
____________________
0 points left! Much better list?