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NerdyOgre254
03-01-2008, 23:49
Hi all,
Does anyone know what happened to all of the Primarchs? I mean all of them, not just the loyalist ones.
I remember that Horus is dead (duh), Guilliman is dead, Sanguinius is dead, and Peturabo is a Daemon Prince, but what happened to the other ones?

dr.oetk3r
03-01-2008, 23:51
Sorry to be kind of not nice, but this question appears about once every week.

It should be added to the FAQ

SpaceLanceCorporal
04-01-2008, 00:10
I think it's safe to say they're all dead except sigmar.

dr.oetk3r
04-01-2008, 00:11
...and the Traitor primarchs?

a few of them definately aren't dead.

Dio´Ra
04-01-2008, 00:14
Dead, Missing or Daemon.....but even those missing or most likely Dead....thus rule of thumb for primarchs the double Ds: Dead or Daemon to answer your question :p

Khaine's Messenger
04-01-2008, 00:26
It should be added to the FAQ

Added? It's the first question! The FAQ (http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8688). ;) Although it could probably do with an update, given some of the info from the HH novels. *EDIT: And I'm sure you meant a different FAQ. But nyah! :p :)

Of the Traitor Primarchs, Horus, Alpharius, and Kurze are dead, although whether Alpharius is really dead has spawned thread after thread. The rest are daemons.

wolvenblade
04-01-2008, 00:40
Leaman russ still lives!!! He will return from the eye of terror with a pack of wulfen right behind him!! He will claim his spear at the shrine. Forever he will live as the great wolf of the spacewolves because he slays logan grimmnar.

TheDarkDaff
04-01-2008, 01:00
Jonson is explictly still alive in the deepest chamber of the rock. It is just that noone knows he is there.

papa smurf is also still "alive". He has just been shrink-wrapped.

Commander Dante
04-01-2008, 03:57
ok here it is:
Sanguinus: dead
Ferrus: dead
Horus: dead
Night Haunter: dead
Alpahrius: dead...?
Guilliman: effectivly dead
Dorn: dead in my book but claimed to be missing, rumoured to run the Custodes
Russ: missing in EoT
Lion: missing rumored to be in stasis in the rock
Khan: Missing in Webway
Corax:Missing in EoT....maybe
Vulkan: missing
Fulgrim, Angron, Lorgar, Mortarion, Purtabo, Magnus: Deamon Primarchs reside in EoT

Eulenspiegel
04-01-2008, 06:55
It should be added to the FAQ
I second that, maybe even to the glossary :(
If you move your pointer over the word Primarch, you get a comprehensive list of what has happened to each one.

But then again, people would have to think of other means to raise post counts :angel: (Threads about the first name of the Emperor maybe? Hey, that´d be a new one!)


/bitter ;)

Mechanicus
04-01-2008, 09:59
Dorn is dead, I'm almost certain - they recovered what remained of him, and then said his hand was in stasis. None of which contradicts Space Marine on his death... ;)

Rövhalt
04-01-2008, 15:48
I second that, maybe even to the glossary :(
If you move your pointer over the word Primarch, you get a comprehensive list of what has happened to each one.

But then again, people would have to think of other means to raise post counts :angel: (Threads about the first name of the Emperor maybe? Hey, that´d be a new one!)


/bitter ;)

What is the first name of the emporor anyways?!11?:p

He he, couldn't resist...
Didn't Russ went to search for some special root, tree of life or a means to save his Emperor?

Eulenspiegel
04-01-2008, 16:46
His name is

CHAOS WASTES

dr.oetk3r
04-01-2008, 18:11
I second that, maybe even to the glossary :(
If you move your pointer over the word Primarch, you get a comprehensive list of what has happened to each one.


That's a pretty good idea. I wonder if mods think so aswell?

Lastie
04-01-2008, 18:33
Dorn is dead, I'm almost certain - they recovered what remained of him, and then said his hand was in stasis. None of which contradicts Space Marine on his death... ;)

Agreed. The image of Dorn's skeleton on display in the Imperial Palace is far more 40K-esque than the thought of him running around the Eye of Terror with a bionic arm.

The Anarchist
04-01-2008, 20:37
just to add to what Commander Dante has said.


Dorn; we know that the Imperial fists belived they recovered his skeletal hand, and thats it. thats is at least the story in presnt fluff, older fluff states his whole skeleton was returned to Terra. however as some IF players like to state how do they know it was Dorn's fist.

Ferrus Mannus; we know he is dead, at last according to the HH books, howeverhe may be on Mars in a tomb, possible a Necron Necrodermis, but this is jus a theory.

Corax and Vulkan; jsut plain missing! we know bugger al about them and what happened realy. they jsut got up and went walk abouts one day and havnt been heard from since.

PaRaSiTe_X92
05-01-2008, 11:29
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Primarch

Dreachon
05-01-2008, 11:47
actually Vulkan disspeared in a giant explosion on istvan.

TheDarkDaff
06-01-2008, 02:41
actually Vulkan disspeared in a giant explosion on istvan.

At least according to the HH Books:rolleyes: he did. But then we are stuck with the fact that he was directly opposed to the Codex which Papa Smurf penned after the Heresy.

A good rule of thumb is if you what any fluff that idn't directly contradicted by accepted core fluff (ie Codex and Rulebook) then ignore everything that Dabnett writes. In fact you can add almost all BL publications to that as they are just literary licence gone mad with references thrown in to give the story a nice 40k flavour.

Wazzahamma
06-01-2008, 05:16
In fact you can add almost all BL publications to that as they are just literary licence gone mad with references thrown in to give the story a nice 40k flavour.

No you can't.

At least, not if you value accuracy. GW has stated numerous times that anything published by them; from codex to articles to novels, is cannon. If it the various publications contradict, then it is up to the reader to interpret these contradictions as they please. After all, even the codex and indexes contradict one another.

So, you have the right to ignore anything "dabnett" writes, but don't think for a second that it isn't official canon (and to be accurate, "dabnett" did not write Vulcan's fate in "Fulgrim').

My own personal interpretation is the opposite- that anything in the codex and rulebooks and articles is written from a hindsight, imperial historical context and as such is full of half truths, distortions, myths and guesswork and propaganda. It is written to be hazy and inaccurate.

At this point, I personally believe that Vulcan's disappearance at the massacre to be 'true', and the other mentions of him having been around after the scouring to be possible but unconfirmed.

The BL books are sanctioned core fluff, given the same approval process as any rulebook.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
06-01-2008, 05:40
While Wazzahamma is correct, I think the reason for this is because Wahammer has changed so much through all the different incarnations and Games Workshop didn't want to have to worry about being consistent. I wish they could just get their act together and put together a consistent setting that we could play in. We don't actually live in the 41st milennium, and this world does not exist outside of what the writers say exists. We can see everything objectively, and I wish they'd just tell us what was going on.

And no, I don't think it's better to be able to make up my fluff, like it's some magical adventure land. Not even a little. I pay money for them to craft a fantasy world, and I'd like it to be a little clearer.

nova40k
06-01-2008, 07:00
The Fate of the Primarchs

Today, all the Primarchs are either damned, lost, dead, or in stasis. Below is a table documenting each Primarch's name, the Legion he led, and his status as of the 41st millennium.

Lion El'Jonson Dark Angels Disappeared during Luther's betrayal. El'Jonson is believed to have been taken by the 'Watchers in the Dark' to be healed, although it is stated in the 2nd edition rulebook Codex: Angels of Death (Priestley and Johnson, 1996) that he resides within an unreachable chamber within 'The Rock', the Dark Angels home fortress.

UNKNOWN UNKNOWN Deleted from Imperial records.

Fulgrim Emperor's Children Location unknown, believed to have laid claim to a planet within the Eye of Terror according to Index Astartes. Various reports say Fulgrim was killed, ascended to Daemonhood, or was possessed by a daemon of Slaanesh. Current canon seems to indicate the third option is the more truthful.

Perturabo Iron Warriors Ascended to Daemonhood. Ruling over a fortress-world, Medrengard, within the Eye of Terror.

Jaghatai Khan White Scars Disappeared 70 years after the end of the Horus Heresy. Believed to be seen following a Dark Eldar Lord through a warp portal into Commorragh, the realm of the Dark Eldar.

Leman Russ Space Wolves Disappeared 197 years after the end of the Horus Heresy. After seeing a vision, Leman Russ sat up from his meal, said he would return for the final battle at "the wolftime," then promptly vanished. Another version of the story is that he is searching for a healing drug that will cure the Emperor.

Rogal Dorn Imperial Fists Dorn made his last stand aboard a Chaos battleship fighting in one of the early Black Crusades. His severed hand was put in stasis, and Dorn's remains were recovered and stored in Phalanx. There is commonly thought to be contradictory material on Rogal Dorn's fate; see Imperial Fists for more details.

Konrad Curze/Night Haunter Night Lords A Callidus Temple assassin, M'Shen, is thought to have killed him, though it is believed that he let himself be slain.

Sanguinius Blood Angels Killed by Horus during the Battle of Terra.

Ferrus Manus Iron Hands Killed by Fulgrim during the Drop Site Massacre, as stated in the book Fulgrim. Early sources put forward other rumoured possibilities, such as Ferrus living on Mars or having simply disappeared at The Drop Site Massacre.

UNKNOWN UNKNOWN Deleted from Imperial records.

Angron World Eaters Ascended to Daemonhood. Led Chaos in the First War for Armageddon. Was defeated and banished back into the Warp by the Grey Knights

Roboute Guilliman Ultramarines Fatally wounded by Fulgrim. He is alive, but preserved in stasis. Some speculate that he is slowly healing, although this is thought to be impossible within a stasis pod.

Mortarion Death Guard Ascended to Daemonhood. Ruling over the Plague Planet within the Eye of Terror.

Magnus the Red Thousand Sons Ascended to Daemonhood although his physical body was shattered by Leman Russ. Ruling over the Planet of Sorcerers within the Eye of Terror.

Horus Luna Wolves / Sons of Horus Beaten by the Emperor on his Flagship during the Siege of Terra, his soul was obliterated. According to Realms of Chaos of First Edition, his corpse was later utterly destroyed by Abaddon the Despoiler along with all known clones.

Lorgar Word Bearers Ascended to Daemonhood. Overseeing his Legion's actions from the Daemon-world Sicarus within the Eye of Terror and the corrupted Forge World of Ghalmek, within the Maelstrom.

Vulkan Salamanders Disappeared during the Drop Site Massacre. Known to have survived the Heresy (opposed Guilliman's plans to divide the Legions into Chapters). Said to have disappeared 1000 years after the Heresy. Salamanders believe he will return one day.

Corax Raven Guard Being unable to forgive himself for what he did to his Legion to ensure its survival, he left in a ship to the Eye of Terror, leaving a single word of valediction, "Nevermore......".

Alpharius Alpha Legion Allegedly killed in single combat by Roboute Guilliman during a war between the Alpha Legion and Ultramarines, post-Horus Heresy. The source of the account of this 'war' is considered suspect, even by Ultramarines.

The Missing Primarchs

In some literature the missing Primarchs and their Legions are listed as being "Deleted from Imperial records".[1][2] The only information Games Workshop has ever released that directly addresses them, can be found in False Gods and The Lightning Tower (Dan Abnett).

False Gods contains a passage in which Horus apparently goes back in time and cracks the incubation capsule of Primarch XI before the Primarchs are scattered to the Warp.[3] The effect this has on the Primarch is inconclusive, though Horus considers the "untapped glories" that "never came to pass" for Primarch XI.

The Lightning Tower contains further vague information on the missing Primarchs. In an amphitheatre in the Emperor's palace, where statues of the twenty Primarchs stand, both the second and eleventh had been removed. The story describes their fate as "separate tragedies" that had seemed "like aberrations". The fact that there had been 20 statues at one point, suggests that all Primarchs were discovered and fought in the crusade. Further, the story makes it clear that all 20 primarchs had believed strongly in the Great Crusade's worthiness at this time.

A short story featuring the Iron Hearts Chapter,[4] specifically mentions a Primarch "Rubinek", though since the author has apologised and acknowledged the reference as a mistake, and the White Consuls Chapter is referenced as having a Primarch[5], though the White Consuls are a second founding Chapter of the Ultramarines, and so their Primarch would be Guilliman.

At one point, Games Workshop seemed to suggest that Sigmar of Warhammer Fantasy was one of the missing Primarchs, and that the Warhammer Fantasy world was actually in the Imperium but isolated by Warp storms. This was subsequently revised and is no longer the case.[citation needed]

Games Workshop has implied that it wants players of Warhammer 40,000 to make Chapters of their own, inspired by the two missing Legions.[citation needed]

In Dark Crusade, Brother-Captain Davian Thule of the Blood Ravens 1st Company tells his men to achieve victory for "The Unknown Primarch" when their fortress in North Vandea is attacked. This has led to speculation that the Blood Ravens are one of the Missing Legions, or that they are simply unaware of their lineage from an established Legion.

Compilation from wikipedia

Wazzahamma
06-01-2008, 10:37
And no, I don't think it's better to be able to make up my fluff, like it's some magical adventure land. Not even a little. I pay money for them to craft a fantasy world, and I'd like it to be a little clearer.


Generally, I agree. It's obvious when GW is intentionally being ambiguous and when they're just being lazy.

The fate of the primachs excerpt from wikipedia posted above shows what a mess it can be...

Ghost Of Caliban
06-01-2008, 23:35
yeah but is jonson a prisoner or a guest of the watchers....