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mattjgilbert
04-01-2008, 11:57
Did a search and read through this thread (http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87159) but it didn't totally answer my question.

Where a unit (not a character) has MR and is struck by a spell targeted initially at another unit (in my example, Vermintide was cast and moved its random distance through one unit and into the unit with MR), what happens? Can the unit with MR dispel the entire spell or do you roll to see if the unit with MR is unaffected (stops the spell from affecting them?) or do you not get the chance at all?

I think the answer is the last option but I thought I'd ask. I notice that the word targeted applies to units and the word affected applies to characters.

I guess you could argue that, in the case of Vermintide, the caster nominates a direction so you know if the unit _might_ be targeted but you may not know for sure until the random distance is rolled.

Gorbad Ironclaw
04-01-2008, 12:07
Nothing happens. There is only one attempt at dispelling a spell, and that's made when it's first attempted cast.

So for instance a spell like Plague can be target at a unit without MR, and then happily be moved to a unit with MR, without the MR doing anything.

Vermintide is a bit more tricky, as if units are included in the original AoE of a spell, there MR apply, but as you don't know what that is before the spell is cast, I'd say you couldn't claim your MR.

mattjgilbert
04-01-2008, 12:12
Yes, it's the not knowing what the initial "target" is going to be which is the problem I am having. I think to be safe, I going to say that MR cannot be used in such cases.

Falkman
04-01-2008, 12:27
Yeah, MR should not be able to be used against Vermintide, since you don't know how long it will travel (and thus who it will hit) until after it is cast.

DeathlessDraich
04-01-2008, 12:38
Yes, it's the not knowing what the initial "target" is going to be which is the problem I am having. I think to be safe, I going to say that MR cannot be used in such cases.


Can I add,

An enemy unit 4" away may use its MR, if it is in the direction the caster intends to use.
I tend to accept a dice roll for units up to 20" away if the Skaven enemy is very dependent on magic resisitance.

theunwantedbeing
04-01-2008, 12:49
That an actual rule...or did you just make that up?
Sounds pretty made up to me.

Looks like you dont get magic resistance against vermintide...as it casts on the ground to make a tide of vermin.
Although in combat it just distributes hits, so you would get it in combat as the unit is the target of the spell(possibly).

As for house rules to negate skaven magic....how about giving magic resistance if within 20" of the target of warp lightning as well.
That's nice and fair isnt it?

DeathlessDraich
04-01-2008, 13:14
dont get magic resistance against vermintide...as it casts on the ground

Not quite.
The rule is MR can be used if it "affects the unit" and not "cast on the unit".

Therefore MR can be used against spells similar to Tree singing etc.

The "4" away in the intended direction" addition is the single obvious case of a unit being affected by Vermintide.
It could easily be disputed but certainly doesn't seem fair.

Leogun_91
04-01-2008, 13:28
[QUOTE=DeathlessDraich;2230289]Not quite.
Therefore MR can be used against spells similar to Tree singing etc.
QUOTE]

Only if you know that it will affect you when it is cast (if your unit is inside the wood that meens. Coud meen you get too dispell those make fear causers terror causers if you are within 8 inches.

theunwantedbeing
04-01-2008, 13:44
4"?
It's the large template so the min range of the spell is 9", the max range is 29"
So only those within 9" are guaranteed to be affected by the spell.
So going off that if you are 10" away, you cant be guaranteed to be hit so there's no reason to get magic resistance at the time of casting.....

Unless you work out the range of the spell before you roll to dispel, which is reasonable.
And only apply the magic resistance of the units that are covered, no generating a random range off the top of your head for example.

Treesinging is different in that you are directly targetting a specific enemy, instead of simply aiming in the direction of an enemy and hoping to roll high enough.

So you'de have to roll the distance and then check to see what was hit before generating magical resistance, unless the only magical resiatance unit was 9" or less away and was being directly aimed at of course.

Not quite leogun, as you arent directly affected by the terror/fear regardless of where you are.

Leogun_91
04-01-2008, 15:43
Allright it was just a thought. Since you would need to take a terror test if withit 8 at start of your turn. If you work out the range you still just get to use one of the units MR otherwise the Fey enchantress would have a MR of 5.

mattjgilbert
04-01-2008, 16:52
The rule is MR can be used if it "affects the unit" and not "cast on the unit".The problem I see is that "affects" is only used when talking about a model or a character but "targeted" is used when discussing units. It's probably unfortunate wording but it does make a difference.

DeathlessDraich
04-01-2008, 17:12
Yes, that is unfortunately true.
I've always prefixed the MR, "affects the unit" with "*directly* affects the unit" as nearly everything in the battle would affect an individual unit *indrectly*.

You are right of course in not allowing MR using RAW but my suggestions were for fair play e.g. against the SOC Slayer army which needs its MR, I would roll a dice.