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View Full Version : 2250 wood elves (no trees), help please!



happy_doctor
04-01-2008, 15:34
Greetings!

I want to build a wood elf army based on the elves, mobile, with few models I can paint in a reasonable amount of time(not too few, though). So, after reading the book, doing a search in the forums and the such, I've come up with the basic list/plan.

Bear in mind that I'm trying to make the best out of my money (thus unit sizes are mostly dictated by the quantities in each blister) and I'd like to keep the army friendly but challenging for both me and the occasional opponent:

HEROES
-Noble on Great Eagle, Hail of Doom Arrow, Helm of the Hunt, LA, shield, spear
-Waywatcher Noble, Starfire Arrows, Resplendence of Luminescents, extra hand weapon
-Wardancer noble, Moonstone of Hidden Ways
-Spellsinger, Lvl1, 2xDispel Scrolls

CORE
-10 Glade Guard, champion
-10 Glade Guard, champion
-5 Scouts
-5 Scouts
-5 Glade Riders, musician
-5 Glade Riders, musician
-5 Glade Riders, musician

SPECIAL
-7 Wardancers, musician
-7 Wardancers, musician, champion
-3 Warhawk Riders
-3 Warhawk Riders

RARE
-6 Waywatchers, champion
-6 Waywatchers

That's a total of 2250 points.

The army revolves around careful maneuvering, march-blocking, disruptive shooting and combined charges of fragile yet powerful units.

So, any thoughts?
Some questions I have for the veterans:
i) How would this army fare in general?
ii) Will it be boring for the opponent?
iii) What would you tweak in order to "tune" it?
iv)Will it be considered overpowering? (given the 2 units of wardancers and another 2 of waywatchers?)
v)I'm a little concerned about magic defense, as the elves are really squishy. However, I quite like the character choices (I've devided the army into 4 "retinues", one for each character).

Thoughts, please?
__________________

Malorian
04-01-2008, 15:40
Well I'd take off a few of those champs to make sure you have one in each of you wardancer units. You also have a lot of points tied in heros.

i) How would this army fare in general?

Depends on what you are facing. But on average it should be fine if used right. You'll just have problems with shooty and magic armies.

ii) Will it be boring for the opponent?

It shouldn't as you have a lot of different elements in it.

iii) What would you tweak in order to "tune" it?

Comments are above.

iv)Will it be considered overpowering? (given the 2 units of wardancers and another 2 of waywatchers?)

There's no treeman so you're fine ; )

v)I'm a little concerned about magic defense, as the elves are really squishy. However, I'd like to keep the character choices (I've devided the army into 4 "retinues", one for each character).

You will have some trouble. The key will be taking out their casters as quickly as you can. You might want to change your hero on the eagle to be a mage hunter.

RavenBloodwind
04-01-2008, 16:53
i) How would this army fare in general?
ii) Will it be boring for the opponent?
Answering these together, if you play this list well your opponent will be stuck trying to nail jello to a wall. You simply make sure you're not where he needs you to be. This can be frustrating to your opponent but shouldn't be boring

iii) What would you tweak in order to "tune" it?
I'd look at downgrading the waywatcher noble to a scout. By taking magic arrows you're already sacrificing the killing blow which just makes him a scout noble with less equipment choices and slightly better deployment rules. He can still deploy with a unit of waywatchers if they deploy in a way that is legal for Mr. Scouty-the-noble.

The glade guard champions really only need to exist to accept challenges and since you have only 1 character (the mage) who would join, I'd drop the other.

You have 4 scouting units. You will probably quickly run out of places to deploy them. As such I'd look at dropping one or both units of scouts in favor of another unit of glade guard or glade riders.

iv)Will it be considered overpowering? (given the 2 units of wardancers and another 2 of waywatchers?)
Considered? No, people seem to only think of dryads and treemen as overpowered. In actuality? Possible. Wardancers are phenomenally powerful and waywatchers tend to make your opponent go stupid for some reason.

v)I'm a little concerned about magic defense, as the elves are really squishy. However, I quite like the character choices (I've devided the army into 4 "retinues", one for each character).
You will need to address enemy magic users by turn 2 or you will likely feel quite a bit of pain. The good news is you have 2 units of waywatchers and 2 units of warhawks ideally suited to the task.

happy_doctor
04-01-2008, 21:06
Thank you for the replies!

So, what I get from both of you is that the army is good overall, can be tough to beat(provided I learn to use it right) and can potentially drive my opponents nuts (but not necessarily).

Both of you seem to suggest that magic and shooting will be a problem, but not if I counter these threats early on.

Now on to the changes in the army list:

-The scout issue is true; 4 units of scouts is getting a bit unweildy, even with the waywatchers' special rules. I've merged the 2 units of scouts, giving them the banner of Zenith to boost their march-blocking capability.

- 620 points for heroes sounds a bit much, I'll agree. I've dropped the wardancer hero, but don't know how much this will hurt the effectiveness of the unit (mainly due to the lack of the Moonstone.)

-I've boosted the Wardancers to 8-strong each.Warhawks were made 4-strong.This means that hopefully they can attack fast cavalry and lightly armoured units with impunity.

-Waywatcher hero: The intention was to have him grant the waywatchers magical attacks, thus making them able to kill ethereal stuff in close combat. As my army has no forest spirits and no magic whatsoever, it will be really hard to kill them without this trick. However, I'd like opinions on another version: I've given him the Blight of Terrors spite. With the special deployment rules, I'm really hoping it will hurt low-ld units.

So, new army list follows...
Better/Worse and WHY?
Please Debate!

HEROES
-Waywatcher Noble, Blight of Terrors, extra hand weapon
-Noble on Great Eagle, Spear, LA, Shield, Helm of the Hunt, Hail of Doom Arrow
-Spellsinger, lvl1, 2xDispel Scroll

CORE
-10 Glade Guard, champion
-10 Glade Guard, champion
-5 Glade Riders, musician
-5 Glade Riders, musician
-5 Glade Riders, musician
-9 Scouts, standard, Banner of Zenith

SPECIAL
-8 Wardancers, musician, champion
-7 Wardancers, musician, champion
-4 Warhawk riders
-4 Warhawk riders

RARE
-6 Waywatchers, champion
-6 Waywatchers, champion

mightygnoblar
04-01-2008, 21:09
what i would possibly do id drop one of the scouting glade guard units along with the resplendescents along with a few champions to take another unit of ten glade guard, this will give you a more effective shooting phase
i would also try to get the banner of zenneth on the other unit of scouting glade guard to make them incredibly effective march blockers

EDIT: pretty much all that i said here you changed whilst i was writing the post, as for the new list i would drop the scouts down to 5 or 6 men, ten arent really that much more effective, and are far more unweildly make it far harder to hide them and to stay out of charge arcs

happy_doctor
04-01-2008, 21:13
what i would possibly do id drop one of the scouting glade guard units along with the resplendescents along with a few champions to take another unit of ten glade guard, this will give you a more effective shooting phase
i would also try to get the banner of zenneth on the other unit of scouting glade guard to make them incredibly effective march blockers

Hahaha, got you there, mightygnoblar!

Thanks for the reply.As you see, the new list includes the banner of Zenith, but at the cost of my wardancer hero...

mightygnoblar
04-01-2008, 21:42
can i ask the exact total cost of this list?

happy_doctor
04-01-2008, 22:34
If I'm not mistaken (which i'll check), it's exactly 2250 points

mightygnoblar
05-01-2008, 18:48
ah that is a shame, i worked out that by dropping most of your unit commands (more specifically from your glade guard, wardancers and way watchers), along with reducing your scouts to 5 men then you would be able to generate 138 extra points, now if you were just 2 points under your army total then you would be able to buy back your wardancer noble
to be honest i would still advise doing this as 138 points can go a long way, you could buy another unit of glade guard or glade riders for example, all in all i think that it could be better spent that adding extra bs and attacks to your army

Disciple of Caliban
05-01-2008, 20:54
Looks good, though as has been said, the glade gaurd and waywatcher champions dont really contribute much so they should probably go.

Scouts with banner of Zenith are great, and all wood elf armies should field them all the time, always.

Otherwise the army looks like a good old fashioned wood elf list with plenty of skirmishing fun to be had. Let us know how the blight of terrors goes, i've wanted to use this several times, but it really doesnt fit my cavalry heavy force.

Conotor
06-01-2008, 01:59
Its too weak against cavalry.

IronBrother
06-01-2008, 04:10
i would have dropped the waywatcher noble instead of the wardancer noble, that moonstone is killer I try to use it in every wood elf army. also, waywatcher nobles and waywatchers have about the same effectiveness in game. The list looks good otherwise. Ignore conotor, my list (which is similar to yours) has destroyed bretonnians and heavy cav empire.

happy_doctor
06-01-2008, 13:22
Thanks for the input once again, guys!

So, the general consensus is that the Wardancer noble should come right back in...But, on the other hand, Malorian pointed out that I had too many points tied in heroes...
So, what to do?
As mightygnoblar suggested, I dropped the command groups (save for the musicians), cut down the scouts a bit, and added the wardancer noble back...

Concerning the waywatcher noble, he was initially in the list to help with ethereals (due to the resplendence om luminescents) and give a bit of a punch to one of the waywatcher units (meaning they could additionaly break something by charging its rear and dishing out a bucketload of attacks). Then, the Terror idea came to me, and it seems a good one... I'll have to playtest it and see...

With no futher comments, I present you the updated list:

HEROES
-Wardancer Noble, moonstone of hidden ways
-Waywatcher noble, extra hand weapon, Blight of Terrors
-Noble on Great Eagle, Hail of Doom Arrow, Helm of the Hunt, LA, shield, spear
-Spellsinger,Lvl1, 2xDispel scroll

CORE
-10 Glade Guard
-10 Glade Guard
-5 Glade Riders, musician
-5 Glade Riders, musician
-5 Glade Riders, musician
-5 Scouts, standard, banner of Zenith

SPECIAL
-4 Warhawk Riders
-4 Warhawk Riders
-7 Wardancers, musician
-7 Wardancers, musician

RARE
-6 Waywatchers
-6 Waywatchers


Some thoughts i have:

1)I'm not entirely sold on the banner of zenith with this army build... 2 units of waywatchers, 2 units of warhawks, one great eagle and a waywatcher noble should pretty much guarantee march blocking the whole enemy force, shouldn't it?

2)At the moment, the only thing capable of remotely harming ethereals is the hail of doom arrow... Apart from that, I'm hopeless against them. Sorry if I'm obsessing too much about them, but I've seen them ruin a perfectly set-up plan just because the opposing general couldn't deal with them properly. Any thoughts?

3)Supposing I ditched the waywatcher noble, I was thinking of upgrading the wardancer noble to a lord with either blades of Loec or the blight of Terrors...Ideas? Too much eggs in my basket?

4)I was thinking about the vulnerability to shooting issue...Apart from target prioritization, what else could I do to avoid it? (tree-surfing is not an alternative, obviously)

5)I'm aware that eternal guard don't suit this style of play, but could I incorporate them to the list as an alternative?would it work?

Keep the ideas coming, lads! You've been of great help so far!