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Zoolander
04-01-2008, 16:56
We had this come up recently and nobody knew the answer or could find it in the book. Maybe we're all retarded but...

Suppose a chaos lord joins a daemon unit of mounted slaanesh (he can do this because he hasa daemonic mount). The unit gets charged but a much smaller unit, and the chaos lord is out of combat completely (he's at the end of the unit - don't ask me why he would do something so dumb). The slaanesh chickies get pounced, losing combat. They roll and take extra wounds. So my question is, what happens to the lord?

A) Does he take extra wounds from losing combat like daemons would (assuming all the daemons die, and they did)?

B) Does he take a break test like he normally would, separate from the daemons, and flee if he fails, leaving the unit behind if any still remain?

C) Or does neither happen, and he stays there immune to both break tests and extra damage from instability?

Leogun_91
04-01-2008, 17:20
1) he himself is not a deamon so he canīt take wounds from that even thoe his mount can.
2) he himself is not a deamon so he canīt join the unit in the first place no matter how demonic his mount is. You have to give him chalice of chaos in order to join them.

Zoolander
04-01-2008, 17:36
1) he himself is not a deamon so he canīt take wounds from that even thoe his mount can.
2) he himself is not a deamon so he canīt join the unit in the first place no matter how demonic his mount is. You have to give him chalice of chaos in order to join them.

Thank you for your feedback. I think you are incorrect, however. Check the rules under daemons, and there is one exception to a mortal joining daemon units: if he rides a daemonic mount.

BattleofLund
04-01-2008, 17:39
Just like Leogun said, the Chalice is what you need to join Daemon units.

Then he becomes Daemonic, and 'follows all the rules outlined in the Bestiary section'. I.e., he will be eligible to take instability wounds or be banished entirely.

Beasts of Chaos, p50, under 'Mixing Characters': 'Daemonic units can never be joined by a non-Daemonic character'.

logan054
04-01-2008, 17:52
Yeah sadly he can never join a unit of daemons unless he has the chalice, if he does this and is the general then also daemons are now core and mortals are now special.

So assuming that he was daemonic then infact he would take left over wounds from the combat res, if the unit rolled over the leadership then infact the chaos lord would be dead. Its very much like crumble for undead (just amount lost is effected by a leadership roll).

Leogun_91
04-01-2008, 19:35
Thank you for your feedback. I think you are incorrect, however. Check the rules under daemons, and there is one exception to a mortal joining daemon units: if he rides a daemonic mount.

If what you say is true (I donīt have the book here so canīt check jet). Then my quess would be that demonic instability canīt harm him but may kill the wound while he has to take a break test that the unit is bound to follow unless they are being killed by instability first. Things gets complicated.
Donīt mix breaktest types.

tortoise
04-01-2008, 19:43
What he says isn't true- a mortal can never join a daemon unit. If he takes the chalice of chaos then he becomes daemonic and is no longer a mortal- in this instance he obeys all the normal rules for daemons.

Zoolander
04-01-2008, 20:23
What he says isn't true- a mortal can never join a daemon unit. If he takes the chalice of chaos then he becomes daemonic and is no longer a mortal- in this instance he obeys all the normal rules for daemons.

Page 29, chaos hordes book - A mortal character may join a daemonic unit if he rides a daemonic mount.

I'm guessing that he would be immune to breaktests period. This is a huge advantage, as he will neither run away nor take instability. His mount won't either, because under the daemonic mount rules, it clearly states as long as the rider is alive, he's immune to it. What a great and evil tactic if this is true. Any expert chaos players want to comment?

snyggejygge
04-01-2008, 20:40
Wrong Zoolander, the intention was quite clear, it allows the daemonic steed to join a unit of mortals, not the other way around, has been covered in early Chronicles....

theunwantedbeing
04-01-2008, 20:51
The intention isnt clear in the slightest.

Is this chronicles available online anywhere as I cant seem to find it.
All I can locate is the old errata which is horribly out of date and pretty badly written anyway.

I know that not allowing a mortal character to join a daemonic unit would make things way way easier.
That or specifying that mortal character's in a daemonic unit that disappears will have to take a break test with the same modifer as the daemon unit took(not allowing him is simpler).

Duck Dodgers
04-01-2008, 21:04
The quote from the rules is -

Non-Daemonic models may not join a Daemonic unit, and a Daemonic model may not join a non-Daemonic unit. The only exception to this is a character riding a Daemonic Mount, Steed of Slaanesh, Juggernaut of Khorne or Disc of Tzeentch.

As a character is a Unit, the exception has to be made, or the Daemonic model (the mount) cannot join the Character (The Rider). At least, that's how I read it...

BattleofLund
04-01-2008, 21:07
I still stand with the 'Mixing Characters' bit in Beasts of Chaos, since it was written post-HoC and adressed mixing character types in the same army.

Page 50: 'Daemonic units can never be joined by a non-Daemonic character'.

Edit: nothing to do with Duck Dodgers' post.

logan054
04-01-2008, 21:12
Im with Syngg, i think intention is very clear however the rules layers strike again! :cries: seriously the intention is to allow a character on a daemonic mount to be able to join mortal units (with out this he couldnt join any unit).

Zoolander
04-01-2008, 21:25
The quote from the rules is -

Non-Daemonic models may not join a Daemonic unit, and a Daemonic model may not join a non-Daemonic unit. The only exception to this is a character riding a Daemonic Mount, Steed of Slaanesh, Juggernaut of Khorne or Disc of Tzeentch.

As a character is a Unit, the exception has to be made, or the Daemonic model (the mount) cannot join the Character (The Rider). At least, that's how I read it...

Thank you Duck. I see what you mean. I can still see how it can be read either way, though. It certainly wasn't clear at any rate.


Wrong Zoolander, the intention was quite clear, it allows the daemonic steed to join a unit of mortals, not the other way around, has been covered in early Chronicles....

I don't think it was clear at all. I understand the rule may be different than what I read, but they certainly didn't make that clear in the Chaos book.

tortoise
05-01-2008, 10:32
Re-reading it you're right about it not being all that clear- I'd never really noticed how badly written that was before. Nevertheless this issue has been FAQ'd and stated more clearly in the later BoC book- a mortal character cannot join a daemonic unit.

theunwantedbeing
05-01-2008, 10:44
Where's this FAQ?

Modern Myth
05-01-2008, 21:51
I'm gonna guess that it works the same way as with forest spirits in the Welves army book! A non-forest spirit cannot join a forest-spirit unit and vice versa... so i guess he can't join the unit!
Sorry! hahahaha still it would be nasty in theory!