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lcfr
05-01-2008, 03:22
Characters:

1 Exalted Champion w/barded Chaos steed, Mark of Slaanesh, shield, armour of damnation, and sword of might. 188

sorcerer upgraded to lvl2 w/MoS, power familiar, barded chaos steed. 206

sorcerer upgraded to lvl2 w/MoS, 2x dispel scroll, barded chaos steed. 206

Core:

6 marauder horsemen w/command. 108

6 marauder horsemen w/command. 108

4 chaos knights w/standard (banner of wrath or rapturous) and musician, MoS. 232

4 chaos knights w/champion (or standard) and musician, MoS. 182

5 pups. 30

5 more pups. 30

Special:

10 furies. 150

2x tuskgor chariot. 170

Rare:

2x fiends. 150
3 dragon ogres w/light armour and great weapons. 237

Total: 1997

PD: 7 DD:5 (w/2 scrolls OR +1 to dispel)

I was initially apprehensive about writing a list without any infantry, as the main army I play is Dwarfs. Many users have commented that the Exalted Champion is effectively a much thriftier version of a Chaos Lord, and in an army that is usually outnumbered I thought it would be worthwhile saving what points I could.

I was considering including an ambushing beastherd, and the original list incuded 3 tuskgor chariots. I figured tuskgor chariots will attract as much cannon as chaos chariots and will pack almost as much a punch in combat, so saving 35pts per chariot is worthwhile in my mind.

I had also planned to include a third sorceror along with either an exalted or aspiring champion but this would reduce the number of cavalry I would be able to field. If I end up deciding that two lvl2s will not get off enough magic I have the option of equipping my exalted champion with a book of secrets or something.

Anyways, shoot away...if this army gets a good review and performs well with proxy marauders and warhounds I'll need to pick them up ASAP. I usually detest playing or playing against proxies, but the warhounds and marauder horsemen would total over $150, and I want to make sure that this is a good investment first.

Comments and criticism welcome, thanks in advance.

Briohmar
05-01-2008, 10:58
That looks like a solid list. Fast enough to get where you need it, screening units, decent magic (i always use the same, except on the second sorceror I use spell fam and scroll.) Only thing missing is flails on the horsemen, you can do that by dropping the standards and maybe the champions, too many victory points for an expendable unit. Go with the rapturous standard on the knights it works great. Also if you could squeeze in one more knight in your second unit, it might help, and then you have the number of slaanesh with both units (assuming you have a sorceror in one, and the exalted and sorceror in the other.

theunwantedbeing
05-01-2008, 11:05
First off.....brilliant avatar.

Anywho..the list.
Not sure your marauder horsemen need their command (at least not the standard bearer)
You can give them flails to make them hit hard.

Pretty solid list all round.
Perhaps drop a couple of duries for a few more pups.(cant really have too much ablative sheilding)

happy_doctor
05-01-2008, 13:44
i) Your fast cavalry will perform better if equipped with flails, and will be less of a liability (VP-wise) if you drop the standard bearer.

ii)Try to make the knights carrying the rapturous standard Chosen. They can hold their own in most combats (even against characters!).

iii)The book of Secrets works better on a character on foot (because he can be affected by steed of shadows), but you can always roll on the lore of fire and hope for the flaming sword!

iv)I'd definitely drop one scroll for a spell familiar. Spell selection is crucial to winning the game with slaaneshi magic.

v)10 furies are a bit overkill.8 will do the trick most of the time.

vi)Give your exalted a flail instead of a magical weapon. The S7 will come in handy against chariots, war altars, and similar targets.

vii)Bear in mind that this force has absolutely no cannon fodder (save for the dogs)... Thus, a gunline of any kind will hurt you greatly.

wizuriel
05-01-2008, 14:15
might want to look into mounted demonetts. also should definitly get standards for both knights

lcfr
05-01-2008, 15:30
Only thing missing is flails on the horsemen, you can do that by dropping the standards and maybe the champions, too many victory points for an expendable unit.

Yeah, this seems to be the consensus...the champs I can definitely go without, and I usually don't dole out points for banners or musicians for relatively inexpensive units...I was thinking, though, that the banners and musicians in the marauder units would help out if they're supporting the chariots or the many units without commands.

To wizuriel: Yes, mounted daemonettes are excellent units, but for 150pts (for 5) this will mean I'll have to sacrifice a unit of marauders and then some or my fiends or furies; I don't usually trust the staying power of daemons, but fear causing fast cavalry would definitely have its benefits.

I'm going to think long and hard about the mounted daemonettes, but I think I will most likely drop the marauder commands for flails, and swap two furies for another chaos knight.

Ethos
05-01-2008, 23:37
Another Dwarf player gone Chaos?! Excellent... I'm not the only one who wanted to have offensive-strategic Dwarves :). And Slaanesh is my fav. too (spells can be killer, especially when experience with having the enemy move where you want them too and facing the consequences respectively).

My 2k list is very similar - Exalted, 2 Sor, 2 Knights, 2 Marauders, 2 Chariots (though mine are Chaos), Puppies, and Furies. But I chose to have another Exalted (on boob-worm), and Mounted Daemonettes instead of another 5 Pups, 2 Fiends, and Dragon Ogres. Tactically I've been learning alot - never used cavalry very much - so it's a bit of a one sided game for the first few times.

But after playing a bit (High Elves, Skaven, and 2 games against Bretonnians) I've realized that the Mounted Daemonettes aren't good against units that high armour or attack first - which leaves only a few units of generic infantry and missile troops. So using them can be a gamble sometimes, and having 2 Fiends is definitely good against most anything; who cares if they're naked, 3 wounds and T5 is sweet. Most of the time it'll take archers 2 full rounds to kill them off completely (if deployed correctly) and by then you're in combat everywhere and you could care less about missile units.

Then again I could be totally wrong about the Daemonettes... :p

Briohmar
06-01-2008, 03:50
Yeah, this seems to be the consensus...the champs I can definitely go without, and I usually don't dole out points for banners or musicians for relatively inexpensive units...I was thinking, though, that the banners and musicians in the marauder units would help out if they're supporting the chariots or the many units without commands.

To wizuriel: Yes, mounted daemonettes are excellent units, but for 150pts (for 5) this will mean I'll have to sacrifice a unit of marauders and then some or my fiends or furies; I don't usually trust the staying power of daemons, but fear causing fast cavalry would definitely have its benefits.

I'm going to think long and hard about the mounted daemonettes, but I think I will most likely drop the marauder commands for flails, and swap two furies for another chaos knight.

I love mounted Daemonettes, but they are frail. You have opted for the dragon ogres, which certainly are a strong unit as well, so I think you'll do OK. Keep the musicians on the marauder horse, but otherwise, go with your plan. Definitely keep the Fiends. These guys are incredibly useful as are your hounds. If I were you, I'd order my trrops by expendability when committing to an attack: hounds, fiends, furies, horsemen, chariots, Dragon Ogres, Knights. With the chariots, keep them in a wing formation. By this I mean, pair them off, and never allow them to charge unless they both can, or they are otherwise supported (unless you are charging skirmishers.) The knights can probably succeed in a frontal charge on their own, but try to keep them paired with a unit of marauder horse in the flank. depending on what army you're facing, think hard before committing to a fight. Against dwarves or Empire, you probably want to be in combat on turn two to avoid being shot to hell, but against elves of any variety, take the time to set up your charges so that you can get those combined attacks. Even with the dwarves, make sure you can get those nasty combined charges if possible. Furies go after war machines. Don't get too fancy with them, just send them after the guns. hounds are bait and flee, or gun fodder units. if, by turn three they're still alive pull them back to hold table quarters. marauder horse are flankers. never, ever send them on a frontal charge, unless against small units of skirmishers, or, in the case of empire, against a detachment (this keeps the det from counter charging into a flank, very important, or keeps them from standing and shooting with handguns against your knights.) There's a lot more to using this list effectively, but most of it is intuitive, once you have the above basics down.

lcfr
06-01-2008, 14:38
Another Dwarf player gone Chaos?! Excellent... I'm not the only one who wanted to have offensive-strategic Dwarves :). And Slaanesh is my fav. too (spells can be killer, especially when experience with having the enemy move where you want them too and facing the consequences respectively).

Yes, making a change from Dwarfs to Chaos was very, very weird. The list I posted above is short some actual models: I still need the mounted sorcerers, the marauder horsemen, warhounds, and furies. I have a usable Chaos army that would function better using the Archaon's Horde SoC rules, since I have over 60 Chaos warriors.

I started collecting Chaos fantasy years ago, and I suppose I was so used to armoured infantry that I couldn't really wrap my head around cavalry armies and fast units; suffice it to say that my hordes of marching chaos warriors are obsolete. It is going to take a lot of getting used to to make this army as effective as I would like it to be; for years the movement phase was a very simple and short (no pun intended) one for me, now my whole game hinges on it.

Makaber
06-01-2008, 14:47
Just something to remember: The knight units are too small to give the Sorcerers a "Look Out Sir!" save, leaving them rather vulnerable to certain attacks if you opt to place them together.

lcfr
08-01-2008, 03:34
Just something to remember: The knight units are too small to give the Sorcerers a "Look Out Sir!" save, leaving them rather vulnerable to certain attacks if you opt to place them together.

How so? All I need is a unit strength of five, which means 2 or 3 knights not including the sorcerer. Or am I missing something?

To all:

Thanks for the much needed input. The revised list will see two units of 5 and 4 chaos knights, respectively, the smaller with the rapturous standard and a musician (4 knights +sorcerer + exalted) and the other with a full command and the second sorcerer.

The marauder horsemen will no longer have a command and will carry flails.

The unit of furies will be reduced to nine.

Thanks to all again for the well placed advice and comments, the criticism was much appreciated.

Violadudester
08-01-2008, 04:17
I would try and keep a musician in the Marauder Horsemen, as fleeing admist a possible baiting situation and rallying the next turn (and being able to move) is very helpful. I play one unit of 5 horsemen in my nurgle mortals army, with flails/musician, and the rallying Ld8 has always helped. Overall interesting list; I too am apprehensive not to take at least 2 units of grunt-ish troops in all of the armies I play (DElves, Chaos, Dwarfs). Let us know how your games go with the list.

Makaber
08-01-2008, 10:22
How so? All I need is a unit strength of five, which means 2 or 3 knights not including the sorcerer. Or am I missing something?

Unfortunately, "Look Out Sir!" isn't dependent on US, but on actual models. You need 5 rank-and-file models in the unit for the character to be entitled to a save.

lcfr
08-01-2008, 21:55
Unfortunately, "Look Out Sir!" isn't dependent on US, but on actual models. You need 5 rank-and-file models in the unit for the character to be entitled to a save.

You would be correct, my mistake.

I was toggling with the list today, and the dragon ogres may go eventually (maybe!). For their price I can buy and by dropping another fury or two I can add eight more chaos knights, allowing me to field two units of ten when the characters are included.

Alternatively, dropping the ogres will give me the opportunity to field a few more marauder horsemen or a small unit if mounted daemonettes.

Are there any users who feel that dragon ogres are worthwhile? They're great chariot crunchers and work well in conjunction with other large movement units, particularly fast cavalry. Thoughts?

theunwantedbeing
08-01-2008, 22:03
Units of 10 easily lose their single point of rank bonus and so you end out paying an extra 165pts to not get any real extra help in combat.
(although with nurgle the bonus unit strength is the main thing you want the extra men for)

Dragon ogres with great weapons hit really hard, cause fear and go further than minotaurs, plus they can sustain 3 wounds and still not die.

I reckon they are well worth having.

lcfr
08-01-2008, 22:11
Overall interesting list; I too am apprehensive not to take at least 2 units of grunt-ish troops in all of the armies I play (DElves, Chaos, Dwarfs). Let us know how your games go with the list.

Well, I felt the same but the way I was playing Chaos was ass backwards (in my mind, I'm sure many disagree)...I was virtually fielding an Archaon's Horde list, all mortal warriors, mostly foot sloggers, and the army did not play up to my expectations (what the heck was I expecting? 300pt units that have a tendency not making it into combat). Like I said, too much time with the Dwarfs.

At least a few units of grunt-minions in any army is reassuring, but in this case it just wouldn't jive well, and the points would not be worth it. If I absolutely had to I would roll with marauders, since they're cheap as hell and provide the comfort of numbers. But what would be the purpose? Every unit has a min. movement of 7 (with the exception of the Fiends of Slaanesh, which are hit or miss I suppose), and I want to be in combat as soon as I can. Marauders won't help me, and warriors will just hurt me.

It's all about the movement phase with this army.

Ethos
08-01-2008, 22:54
That's why I've taken out all infantry in my army. 2 Exalted, 2 Sorcerers, 2 Knights, 2 Chariots, 2 Puppies, 2 Marauders on Horse, with perhaps 2 Spawns and 6 Furies. Everything moves fast and has specific instructions. You know that Queen song "Death on Four Legs"? (haha...)

Briohmar
09-01-2008, 00:45
Foot sloggers in this force would probably be a waste. Also, an additional rank of chaos knights is a waste of about 200 points. you should not need a rank bonus with chaos knights and slaanesh magic. If you drop the DOs, bring both units of knights up to 5 strong, add 180 points of mounted 'nettes, and plus up your dogs with anything remaining. Above all, stop thinking like a dwarf. The chaos cavalry raiding party is so very different that it is beyond belief. There is no fight you should enter that doesn't involve a combined frontal and flanking charge, except small skirmishing forces, or single rank (or two) missile troops, there is no artillery piece in the game that should be safe past turn 2, and a lone wizard or character should be dog meat the minute it rears its little head.

Girathon
09-01-2008, 01:29
Sweet list Alex. I can only say I really don't like the idea of large units of knights, just to difficult to maneuver and huge targets for any and all missile fire.

While pondering your text message at work today I thought about a different option for replacing your Dragon Ogres. If you drop the DO's , you can replace them with 4 Ogre Ironguts and have around 37pts left over to buy a 5th knight for the other unit. The ogres all have great weapons, and heavy armour, and can keep up with the rest of your army. Let me know what you think son.

Girathon

lcfr
09-01-2008, 02:11
Sweet list Alex. I can only say I really don't like the idea of large units of knights, just to difficult to maneuver and huge targets for any and all missile fire.

While pondering your text message at work today I thought about a different option for replacing your Dragon Ogres. If you drop the DO's , you can replace them with 4 Ogre Ironguts and have around 37pts left over to buy a 5th knight for the other unit. The ogres all have great weapons, and heavy armour, and can keep up with the rest of your army. Let me know what you think son.

Girathon

Sorry about that eh, I know you hate texts but phone calls are even more expensive. Yeah the dragon ogres will stay I think, regular ogres aren't awfully impressive in my mind.

Mounted daemonettes feel more and more tempting every time I think of them (as it should be, I suppose), the 5th knight will happen if the dragon ogres go, it's just a question of whether to bring in mounted daemons or some combination of other fast stuff.

I'm hesitant to remove the dragon ogres right now, since there are still some units in the army that I need to pick up; most annoying to acquire, now that I think of it, will be a second mounted sorcerer....GW only has one model! I'll have to scour the archives or settle for a conversion or necromancer.

Briohmar
09-01-2008, 02:34
I'm hesitant to remove the dragon ogres right now, since there are still some units in the army that I need to pick up; most annoying to acquire, now that I think of it, will be a second mounted sorcerer....GW only has one model! I'll have to scour the archives or settle for a conversion or necromancer.

Conversions are probably your best bet. I used a very old model, one that I've had in my collection since the late 80's that I chopped at the waist and attached to an older chaos knight's legs and mounted him on a mounted champion (also kind of old) horse. There is the LE mounted sorceror as well, which I believe is available from direct services, or can be found on ebay, but don't expect to find that one cheaply.