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FraustyTheSnowman
05-01-2008, 05:35
I imagine this is as good a place as any to ask this.

In Imperial armour four there is the army list for the D99 Elysians correct, does that include stats on the valkyrie and vulture?

Also, in the new Imperial Armour Apocalypse book, are there stats in there or just the datafaxes?

IG_Airborne_Ranger
05-01-2008, 05:46
IA Apocalypse has stats and datafaxes.

I have IA 4 and it does have stats for both Valkyrie and the Vulture. Hope this helps.

azimaith
05-01-2008, 06:12
There is also the table of contents for every imperial armour book at the forgeworld site.

FraustyTheSnowman
05-01-2008, 07:17
I looked in the table of contents. Valkyries and vultures weren't listed in Imperial Armour 4, and I wanted to make absolutely sure they were in the Appoc book before I gave Forgeworld any more of my money.

Thanks for the info.

fattdex
05-01-2008, 07:43
They are in IA: 4, but from memory it says that you can take aircraft upgrades there with points, but doesn't provide the rules for the upgrades.

Also in IA: Apoc, where I think the only difference is that you use Apoc bombs instead of regular 40k, and the rocket pod has been changed to 5" 1 shot instead of 2" 2 shots. Don't know if aircraft upgrades are listed in the main apocalypse rulebook, i don't have it, but I don't think they arein IA: Apoc.

Spacker
05-01-2008, 11:37
They are in IA: 4, but from memory it says that you can take aircraft upgrades there with points, but doesn't provide the rules for the upgrades.

The upgrades are there too at the start of the D-99 list. I didn't think they were but someone pointed them out to me last week in another chat about IA4 - see page 131.



Also in IA: Apoc, where I think the only difference is that you use Apoc bombs instead of regular 40k, and the rocket pod has been changed to 5" 1 shot instead of 2" 2 shots. Don't know if aircraft upgrades are listed in the main apocalypse rulebook, i don't have it, but I don't think they arein IA: Apoc.

They're not in IA:A or in Apocalypse - they're only in IA Vol 1 and IA Vol 4. The Valkyrie and Vulture in IAA don't have the upgrades listed as options though (which looks like an oversight but has not been included in the Q&A, as the Arvus and Aquila do list them).

azimaith
05-01-2008, 11:45
Actually whats more accurate is they *aren't* in IA4 in the way they are in IA1. They're written only as part of the D-99 elysians list, not as a separate ala carte vehicle. Which might be why they weren't in the contents (maybe replaced with just: "d-99 elysians army)

The rules are the same though, but just so your aware, they're presented as heavy supports and dedicated transports for the D-99 Elysians rather than separate entries.

Bregalad
05-01-2008, 15:52
Both IA4 and IA:A have the full rules for Vulture and Valkyrie. As said, in IA4 they are integrated in the Elysian army list, Valkyrie as transport (not heavy) and Vulture as Heavy support. IA4 also adds some Imperial Navy aircraft upgrade rules like camo and such, which are not present in IA:A.

greenmtvince
05-01-2008, 22:03
If Elysians is your thing, I'd highly consider the 23rd Elysians List from IAv3. It too has the stats for the Valkyrie and Vulture as well as the rules for the aircraft upgrades. You may find the 23rd to be a slightly more competitive and more forgiving way to run the drop troopers.

FraustyTheSnowman
06-01-2008, 06:53
If Elysians is your thing, I'd highly consider the 23rd Elysians List from IAv3. It too has the stats for the Valkyrie and Vulture as well as the rules for the aircraft upgrades. You may find the 23rd to be a slightly more competitive and more forgiving way to run the drop troopers.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the impression of the D99 list I have. Each troop choice is a squad of ten veteran drop troopers, able to carry two special weapons in the squad, and no heavy weapon. The head quarters is a traditional five man command squad, though only one trooper may be given a special weapon (no idea what anyone else may have). Special weapon squads are elite. Drop sentinels (heavy bolter or multimelta) cover fast attack. Finally vulture gunships and sentry guns are the heavy support. This actually sounds like almost exactly the type of force I want to play.

What is the basis of the 23rd? I knew there was another Elysian list, but I know nothing about it. Competitive play only holds so much interest for me. The people I play friendly games with are very noncompetitive/nonoptomized folk, and for those occassions when we do play a little more balls to the wall I have my mech sisters.

azimaith
06-01-2008, 06:56
Both IA4 and IA:A have the full rules for Vulture and Valkyrie. As said, in IA4 they are integrated in the Elysian army list, Valkyrie as transport (not heavy)

Thus the dedicated transport bit.



and Vulture as Heavy support. IA4 also adds some Imperial Navy aircraft upgrade rules like camo and such, which are not present in IA:A.
I don't remember any camo upgrades for them. Theres ejector seats, chaff/flares, illum flares, infrared targeting, and armored cockpit as well as a custom paint scheme.


Please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the impression of the D99 list I have. Each troop choice is a squad of ten veteran drop troopers, able to carry two special weapons in the squad, and no heavy weapon.

D-99 are different. They can carry a heavy weapon or two specials and may have up to 10, not just 10.



The head quarters is a traditional five man command squad, though only one trooper may be given a special weapon (no idea what anyone else may have).

No, they're hq is just like guards including the special weapon count. They don't get squads or sentinel squadrons to add to it.



Special weapon squads are elite. Drop sentinels (heavy bolter or multimelta) cover fast attack. Finally vulture gunships and sentry guns are the heavy support. This actually sounds like almost exactly the type of force I want to play.

Don't forget the Cyclops.



What is the basis of the 23rd? I knew there was another Elysian list, but I know nothing about it. Competitive play only holds so much interest for me. The people I play friendly games with are very noncompetitive/nonoptomized folk, and for those occassions when we do play a little more balls to the wall I have my mech sisters.

The 23rd are more a standard drop troops guard army than D-99 whcih is a specialized veteran force.

To put it simply D-99 you're going to drop in, kill alot, and then lose squads very quickly, while with 23rd you're not going to kill as much but stick around longer.

Spacker
06-01-2008, 08:43
What is the basis of the 23rd? I knew there was another Elysian list, but I know nothing about it. Competitive play only holds so much interest for me. The people I play friendly games with are very noncompetitive/nonoptomized folk, and for those occassions when we do play a little more balls to the wall I have my mech sisters.

The 23rd is a more "normal" IG organisation with Infantry Platoons for troops, Vets are elites along with Stormtroopers, etc.

fattdex
06-01-2008, 08:54
Also, the actual IA4 book, storyline, art, fluff and d-99 force are 7 shades of kick ass.

FraustyTheSnowman
06-01-2008, 21:26
Cool, D99 sound even better than I thought.

Umm, so what's the difference between running 23rd and a normal guard force with drop troop doctrine?

greenmtvince
06-01-2008, 23:15
Doctrines are: Drop Troops, Iron Discipline, Veterans, Stormtroopers, and Special Weapons Squads.

-You trade the ability to tote a heavy weapon in your infantry squads for a single demo charge at the same cost as a heavy bolter.
-The command sections are limited to one special weapon and one veteran instead of four, but can buy a medic for the cost of a medipac without buying a veteran.
-You may take a commissar as your HQ choice instead of buying a command platoon (as per IAv3 FAQ)
-You are limited to one mortar squad, one missile launcher AT squad, two heavy bolter fire support squads, and two special weapons squads as part of your command platoon
-the infantry squads and HQ weapons squads cost 5 points more than a normal squad for no apparent benefit.

These special rules make it slightly underoptimized in comparison to doctrine drop troops. However, the change to a reliance on demo charges and the emphasis on infantry give it an entirely different playstyle than normal IG. It's this unique (suicidal?) playstyle that makes it a ton of fun for me and alone worth fielding.

D-99 and 23rd Elysian lists aren't really that different from each other in terms of your restrictions from codex IG. The problem is that while there's a slight increase in accuracy of fire from the D-99 veterans, they lose volume of fire. That combined with the fact that they're no more survivable than a basic 23rd drop trooper means that limited amount of fire they can deliver disolves far quicker.