PDA

View Full Version : Out of Combat?



Vishok
06-01-2008, 08:54
Sorry mates, just trying to get the hang of my new artillery army...and I came across something that hadn't happened before and I couldn't find what the ruling was in the rulebook at the time. Might have been all the beer...but anyways...

A cannonball passes through the flank of a unit of spider riders. On the opposite side of the riders from the cannon is a dragonslayer. The dragonslayer declared a charge this turn, and during the shooting phase the cannon obliterated all but the model on the end closest to the cannon.

So the dragonslayer was about 4 inches or so from the remaining spider rider.

The question I have about the above scenario is what happens to the combat?

Is the dragonslayer out of combat and both units can continue (after panic test) as normal, or does the dragonslayer move to be in contact with the remaining rider?

Or something entirely different?

Sorry for the nub question, but new(ish) to Warhammer after about 15 years of 40k.

knightime98
06-01-2008, 09:24
A cannonball passes through the flank of a unit of spider riders. <OK>
On the opposite side of the riders from the cannon is a dragonslayer. <OK>
The dragonslayer declared a charge this turn,<OK>
and during the shooting phase the cannon obliterated all but the model on the end closest to the cannon.<OK>

Q1: So, the dragon slayer is in combat with the Spider Riders when you fired the cannon!
Your guess was for another unit and it was either very short or very long and happened to befall exactly on the Spider Riders? You are not allowed to target a unit in combat with a cannon shot (purposely).

So the dragonslayer was about 4 inches or so from the remaining spider rider.<OK>
Q2: And the cannonball shot did not hit the dragon slayers base? The Dragon Slayer should be in base contact with the Spider Riders and in combat prior to the cannonball even being shot.

The question I have about the above scenario is what happens to the combat?
A: You move the last spider rider over to the base of the dragon slayer. No panic test is needed as your spider riders are in combat. You fight the combat with the remaining forces taking break tests as normal. Remember that casualties do not count toward combat resolution when they happen in other phases (i.e. in the shooting phase).

Is the dragonslayer out of combat
<NO>

and both units can continue (after panic test) as normal
<YES they continue combat - no panic test taken>

or does the dragonslayer move to be in contact with the remaining rider?
<No, the Spider Rider moves to be in contact with the Dragon Slayer>

Or something entirely different?
A: It is something different as noted above.

Vishok
06-01-2008, 18:04
The cannonball was aimed at a troll on the near side of the riders to the cannon.

It barely missed the dragonslayers' base because it's only half as wide as the rider's (flank charge).

Thanks for the clarification! Can you point to where this is in the rulebook please? For future reference...

Jonke
06-01-2008, 22:39
Casualties in a unit with only one rank are removed equally from either side, so the middle spider riders should be left standing and the slayer moved in to btb with it.

Vishok
06-01-2008, 22:47
Two different answers, with no references.

So how many hits are inflicted by the cannon? 1 per rank, correct? However, the cannon came from the flank, so it counts files as ranks, correct?

I was under the impression the cannon only hit what it directly cross with the limit of 1 soldier per rank.

So does it remove those models specifically (which was the impression I had) or do I choose?

And who moves at the end? The Dragonslayer or the Spider Rider? In 40k they would be 'out of combat' if there were more than 2'' between at the end of the shooting phase, but this isn't 40k and I couldn't find the specific example of this, which seems as though it would be fairly common since it sprang up in what was only the second game I have played.

Finnigan2004
06-01-2008, 23:02
Page 31 details the removal of models due to shooting and page 36 details the removal of models due to close combat. You would remove them alternately according to the shooting rules, as Jonke said. This is a fairly unusual situation because only skaven can shoot into combat intentionally.

Jonke
07-01-2008, 00:34
So how many hits are inflicted by the cannon? 1 per rank, correct? However, the cannon came from the flank, so it counts files as ranks, correct?

Yes


I was under the impression the cannon only hit what it directly cross with the limit of 1 soldier per rank.

That is correct.


So does it remove those models specifically (which was the impression I had) or do I choose?

As long as only rank and file are killed they are removed from the last rank if the unit has more than one and equally from each side if the unit only has one rank. Detailed on page 31 as someone else said.


And who moves at the end? The Dragonslayer or the Spider Rider? In 40k they would be 'out of combat' if there were more than 2'' between at the end of the shooting phase, but this isn't 40k and I couldn't find the specific example of this, which seems as though it would be fairly common since it sprang up in what was only the second game I have played.

A unit can normally never be forced out of combat beacuse of inflicted casualties in fantasy (it might happen if several units are fighting eachother, but it's rare), as long as either side is neither dead nor has broken the units should be kept in btb with eachother. Normally this is starightforward, if they're fighting eachothers fronts they won't be out of btb, if one is fighting to the others rear that unit will be moved forward as casualties are removed. This is why I say the slayer should be moved.

I'm currently at work and for once hasn't got my rulebook with me, so unfortunately I can't give you any references.

Vishok
07-01-2008, 10:13
The rules on p 31 dealing with shooting simply state remove them alternatingly. It does not specify what happens to models left in combat.

On pg 36 the rules are for models fighting in combat. By the wording on p 36, it would be the cannon that moves forward to base to base contact with the spider riders. This obviously does not apply.

Not sure how to resolve this next time it comes up.

knightime98
07-01-2008, 11:15
1010011010 - binary number of the beast... I had to work it out by hand to find out what number it was... I saw it and said hmmm...

grishnakh99
08-01-2008, 03:07
Further question: In a game a few weeks ago, there was a Shaggoth and a Giant. I raised a line of zombies 12 wide. They both charged the zombies, and after combat and CR was applied, 1 zombie was left. I understand no one leaves combat. But because the Giant and Shaggoth were a few inches apart, is there a way to resolve this? We just pushed everyone together so they were all still in combat. Seemed reasonable to all involved. So is there a tournament rule determining who lines up to who?