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devolutionary
07-01-2008, 20:48
New army time. I let my mum pick my army this time, since I just couldn't decide between the various cannon based armies. So my indecision has cost me dearly in terms of ethical high ground (I generally dislike all things elven ;) ) and artillery (I play brets, I was looking forward to cannons, oh well).

I do like Wood Elves though, they look quite nice, have a good model range, and are loaded up with specialist units. Infantry, ranged weaponry, it's all stuff I have minimal experience with really.

I've based it on the battalion like a good little opportunist, added in models I like, and yeah, here goes nothin...


Spellweaver
Level 4, Ranu's Heartstone, Divination Orb

Noble
Alter Kindred, Great Weapon, Bow of Loren

Noble
Scout Kindred, Hail of Doom Arrow

8 Glade Riders
Musician

14 Glade Guard

10 Scouts

12 Dryads

9 Eternal Guard
Full Command

3 Warhawk Riders

5 Wardancers

5 Waywatchers

Treeman

1990pts


Comments?

RavenBloodwind
07-01-2008, 21:53
If budget is an issue you've selected some pretty spendy models (warhawks, treekin, eternal guard) but that's neither here nor there.

To the list:
The wizard lord can be a good general but I'd look into the wand of wych elm rather than the 2 items you've selected. The divination orb really only helps vs other wizard lords since they're the only ones likely to be throwing 4 dice at a spell. The wych elm wand, however, lets you re-roll EVERY dispel attempt.

The alter noble is fine. Most would give him the helm of the hunt in addition to the HoDA so he'll get 5 attacks on the charge.

Scout noble is a good choice (20 pts cheaper than waywatcher) and build is fine.

For troops...
Glade riders should rarely be more than 6 models. If you can get a sprue and the horses you'd have enough for 2 5-man units which would be better. Musicians are a good plan.

I'd look at 2 units of 10 glade guard without upgrades. Convert the other 4 models as waywatchers so you can get your waywatcher unit build with a single blister of metals. You can deploy your scout noble with your waywatchers. The 10-man unit of scouts is tough to hide in deployment and really doesn't do much. The primary reason I see for using scouts is to give them the banner of the zenith for marchblocking.

12 dryads is a bit large but it's what you have in the batallion box. Look at scoring a sprue of dryads from a website as the extra 4 will allow you to field 2 units of 8 which will be MUCH more effective than a single 12.

9 eternal guard aren't worth the trouble. That and I think the minimum size is 10. If this is a typo and you meant 19, then that's okay although they don't benefit from stubborn when joined by a mage and your other 2 characters can't or don't want to join them. Either make them MUCH bigger or drop them.

Warhawks are great if you know how to use them. I don't know how to use them so I leave them at home.

Wardancers are fantastic but I find 7-8 the ideal number and a champion a real bargain.

Waywatchers are fun and make you opponent do stupid things. 5-6 is plenty.

Treemen are, well, treemen. You either love them or you don't. They can be amazing but I've never gotten my points worth from mine so he stays home.

northwoodDreamer
07-01-2008, 22:15
New army time. I let my mum pick my army this time, since I just couldn't decide between the various cannon based armies. So my indecision has cost me dearly in terms of ethical high ground (I generally dislike all things elven ;) ) and artillery (I play brets, I was looking forward to cannons, oh well).

I do like Wood Elves though, they look quite nice, have a good model range, and are loaded up with specialist units. Infantry, ranged weaponry, it's all stuff I have minimal experience with really.

I've based it on the battalion like a good little opportunist, added in models I like, and yeah, here goes nothin...


Spellweaver
Level 4, Ranu's Heartstone, Divination Orb

Noble
Alter Kindred, Great Weapon, Bow of Loren

Noble
Scout Kindred, Hail of Doom Arrow

8 Glade Riders
Musician

14 Glade Guard

10 Scouts

12 Dryads

9 Eternal Guard
Full Command

3 Warhawk Riders

5 Wardancers

5 Waywatchers

Treeman
1990pts
Comments?


Ravenbloodwind's advice is very good. I won't repeat those comments, so going off of that...

As it stands I really don't see any theme to this army. The only rank bonus you get in this army is from a unit of archers and a unit of 10 Eternal Guard which are so small and fragile that an average sized unit of Zombies probably wouldn't think twice before taking them on. The same goes for the unit of 5 Wardancers, who could fall in one volley from the typical unit of 10 archers/hand gunners that many armies field. I'm thinking the Eternal Guard size is a typo... if so you should look to having a char that you can put in there to make them stubborn. If you make the changes ravenbloodwind suggested you may have enough points to get a new char... but probably not. You're best bet would probably to add to your Wardancers, Warhawks (4 is ideal), and Eternal Guard with any extra points and look at switching one of your nobles for one that can lead the Eternal Guard.

devolutionary
07-01-2008, 22:19
Is theme really that vital in Wood Elves? They seem to be strong in all areas except for armour and resilience, unlike Chaos or Dwarfs who really need to have a direction to be effective.

I can see the point about the Eternal Guard, and I was somewhat hesitant in adding them initially. They just seem like a good caster defense unit and a nice center to a force.

Is this an army that is suited to MSU above all else? Should I look at minimum units instead of the blocks that I'm used to as a Bretonnian player?

Malorian
07-01-2008, 22:24
No doubt. Woodelves are the kings of MSU : ) Take small units of glade riders and warhawks and watch him swear and tear out his hair as he tries to catch you ; )

northwoodDreamer
08-01-2008, 02:20
Is theme really that vital in Wood Elves? They seem to be strong in all areas except for armour and resilience, unlike Chaos or Dwarfs who really need to have a direction to be effective.

I can see the point about the Eternal Guard, and I was somewhat hesitant in adding them initially. They just seem like a good caster defense unit and a nice center to a force.

Is this an army that is suited to MSU above all else? Should I look at minimum units instead of the blocks that I'm used to as a Bretonnian player?



WE are definitely a MSU army. However, a unit of 10 Eternal Guard won't be worth it for you. I thought you were going to use them as the center of your army, however 10 simply won't make for any kind of center. A large unit of Eternal Guard (18+), a unit of Tree Kin and sometimes a Treeman make the center of a HE army. Of course, you took a Treeman. It is vital that you have a unit or two that can take a charge IMO. This better allows for you to charge in with your other small units such as Dryads, Wardancers, Wild Riders, Heroes, and Warhawk Riders. WE get their CC kill power from multiple charges, however it is much more difficult to arrange these when you don't have a unit that can pin down an enemy unit for a turn. A Treeman should be a safe bet for a turn, but probably only one turn. So if you're going to make one you're only centerpiece, then make sure you have enough powerful MSU's that can charge the next turn and take out the unit.

So after that speech, I would recommend ditching the Eternal Guard and use the points to beef up your Wardancers (up to 8 in a unit) and your Warhawk Riders (4 usually works).

devolutionary
08-01-2008, 02:39
Alrighty, so Wardancers and Warhawks are a good pick for that. Dryads strike me as a bit nasty too, or am I mistaken on that front?

Would taking an Ancient instead of a Spellweaver be a bit more viable, just to toughen up the Treeman and maybe redistribute in to multiple Spellsingers?

northwoodDreamer
08-01-2008, 03:20
Alrighty, so Wardancers and Warhawks are a good pick for that. Dryads strike me as a bit nasty too, or am I mistaken on that front?

Would taking an Ancient instead of a Spellweaver be a bit more viable, just to toughen up the Treeman and maybe redistribute in to multiple Spellsingers?




Dryads are definitely nasty, more so the Warhawk Riders. I was assuming you'd make the the first reply said and create the 2 units of 8 Dryads. As for the Ancient - lord choices with WE are IMO touch-and-go. They all have serious advantages, but also serious risks. Your best bet is to find a friend and play test a couple different lists with a friend substituting whatever models you can find. See what works for you, what doesn't, get a feel for the army play style. Then once you have an idea of what you like and don't like, post a list. Of course, you have to have a friend nice enough to play against a "fake" army once or twice in order to do that...

devolutionary
08-01-2008, 03:25
Oh that's easy, my gaming club is all about the proxies and practice matches, I'm quite fortunate in that regard.

One of my big concerns is that I don't want to mimic a guy at our club who won Player's Choice and Best Painted at our regional GT with his Wood Elves which, surprise surprise, featured a mass of Dryads, Treekin, Treeman lord, Branchwraith, and a single unit of Glade Riders and Wardancers to mix it up. So I was trying to limit the number of tree types, but I need to have a Treeman... unless, of course, the Dragon is a good option. I was contemplating it, but at 320pts in 2000pts, it'll suck up 25% of my army before magic items are added on, so I held off on that.

northwoodDreamer
08-01-2008, 13:36
Oh that's easy, my gaming club is all about the proxies and practice matches, I'm quite fortunate in that regard.

One of my big concerns is that I don't want to mimic a guy at our club who won Player's Choice and Best Painted at our regional GT with his Wood Elves which, surprise surprise, featured a mass of Dryads, Treekin, Treeman lord, Branchwraith, and a single unit of Glade Riders and Wardancers to mix it up. So I was trying to limit the number of tree types, but I need to have a Treeman... unless, of course, the Dragon is a good option. I was contemplating it, but at 320pts in 2000pts, it'll suck up 25% of my army before magic items are added on, so I held off on that.


Two units of Dryads and a Treeman isn't close to having an all tree list. Most WE armies field them. W/O champions a unit of 8 Dryads is under 100 pts (96), so they really don't take up a big chunk of your army. Add a coupler Wardancers to your unit, and then ditch the Scouts and Eternal Guard and get more special choices. Another unit of Wardancers or/and a unit of Wild Riders would be ideal.

devolutionary
09-01-2008, 00:29
Right on, so the good news is that thanks to a 33% off GW stuff sale at my LGS for New Years, I got;
Wood Elf book of my own
Noble w/ Great Weapon
Spellweaver
Battalion
2x Wardancer blisters
1x Waywatcher blister

So that's 1200pts already. Well on my way to 2k or more.

devolutionary
09-01-2008, 19:24
OK, so this is my next draft, aiming for 3000pts in total.

First 2000pts
Spellweaver
Level 4 Wizard, Wand of Wych Elm

Noble
Alter Kindred, Great Weapon, Helm of the Hunt

Spellsinger
Dispell Scroll

10 Glade Guard
10 Glade Guard

8 Dryads
8 Dryads

5 Glade Riders
Musician

5 Glade Riders
Musician

8 Wardancers
Musician

4 Warhawk Riders

6 Waywatchers

Treeman


2500 increase
Noble
Scout Kindred, Bow of Loren, Additional Hand Weapon

5 Glade Riders
Musician

4 Treekin


3000 increase
Highborn
Spear of Twilight, Enchanted Shield, Light Armour, Forest Dragon

northwoodDreamer
09-01-2008, 22:18
OK, so this is my next draft, aiming for 3000pts in total.

First 2000pts
Spellweaver
Level 4 Wizard, Wand of Wych Elm

Noble
Alter Kindred, Great Weapon, Helm of the Hunt

Spellsinger
Dispell Scroll

10 Glade Guard
10 Glade Guard

8 Dryads
8 Dryads

5 Glade Riders
Musician

5 Glade Riders
Musician

8 Wardancers
Musician

4 Warhawk Riders

6 Waywatchers

Treeman


2500 increase
Noble
Scout Kindred, Bow of Loren, Additional Hand Weapon

5 Glade Riders
Musician

4 Treekin


3000 increase
Highborn
Spear of Twilight, Enchanted Shield, Light Armour, Forest Dragon





I have never played anything bigger than a 2k game, however your 2k list seems very competitive and I for one like your additions as the size of the game go up... though I'm not the biggest fan of Forest Dragons simply because I have a hard time picturing forests and forest dwellers allying with a dragon.

Malorian
09-01-2008, 22:25
The bow of loren would be better on the lord, and if you are going to have a scout kindred I would make them combat based and with hail of doom arrow.

devolutionary
09-01-2008, 23:12
I assume that's the optimise the shots from the Bow and also to give the Scout a massive hit against a rear line unit?

RavenBloodwind
09-01-2008, 23:18
Updated list and it's expansion to 2.5k seem good. I'll echo northwoodDreamer in being underwhelmed with the dragon-lord. There are plenty of things in the average 3k army to make this guy have a short and painful life on the tabletop. For his points you could field a LOT of troops to better end. And your interpretations regarding BoLoren on lord and HoDA on scout are accurate.

devolutionary
10-01-2008, 00:23
But I want a dragon dammit :p I've always wanted a beastie, and never got to use the Bret Hippogryph.

Still, good to see that I kinda know what I'm doing here :D

RavenBloodwind
10-01-2008, 00:43
If you want a dragon, you should take one. He's not terrible, he's just a HUGE points sink. Give him the stone of crystal mere so the first cannonball you take to the face you'll have a 3+ ward save against.