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Sephtar II
09-01-2008, 15:49
Right now I have been reading the new Ork Dex and something has occured to me.

Now anyone who has read the background sections of the book will know that a great deal of referance is made to the old ones creating the orks although the orks refer to them as the 'BrainBoyz'. Now its is explained in the necron dex that the orks (krork) were created to defend the olds ones last bastions and the ork book makes referance to artifical genetic code that allows mekboyz to know how to build stuff and painboyz to know how the body works.

Now the section on the clans offers insights that each clan appears to have a specific advantage or specialisation over the others that seems awfully reminiscant of the tau caste structure. Basicaly summerized below.

Goffs: Fire caste, foot soldiers etc.
Evil Sunz: Air Caste, like going fast aircraft if possible
Bad moons: water caste, mentioned as being a merchat class in ork society
Snakebites: Earth caste agriculture, specialise in producing basic ork forms and fungus
Blood axes: Fire caste command: better grasp of complex stratagy and military planning than other clans
Deathskulls: earth caste scientists, mentioned that they wouold be excelant scientists if they werent so easily bored.

and the Old Ones/Brainyboyz function as ethereals.

Now it is widely accepted that the Tau were engineered by someone so is this where they got the idea? am I reading too much into this? anyone else see it too?

malika
09-01-2008, 16:34
I think you're reading too much into it all. The Clans were sort of designed to create thematic armies for the Oddboys, so the Goffs would have mostly Nobs while the Blood Axes would have Kommandos and so on. It was also mentioned back in the 2nd edition days that there were more Ork Clans out there. And how would the Freebooterz fit in this theory? Note that the Flyboys are not part of the Evil Sunz, the Kult of Speed isnt part of the Evil Sunz either. The Feral Orks are not a part of the Snakebitez. I remember in some WD articles on the 3rd Armageddon War where various warbands were mentioned, while they are inspired by the Clans they were not part of those Clans.

Only question now is if these Clans are actually genetically decided.

Brother Siccarius
09-01-2008, 16:41
Right now I have been reading the new Ork Dex and something has occured to me.

Now anyone who has read the background sections of the book will know that a great deal of referance is made to the old ones creating the orks although the orks refer to them as the 'BrainBoyz'. Now its is explained in the necron dex that the orks (krork) were created to defend the olds ones last bastions and the ork book makes referance to artifical genetic code that allows mekboyz to know how to build stuff and painboyz to know how the body works.

Now the section on the clans offers insights that each clan appears to have a specific advantage or specialisation over the others that seems awfully reminiscant of the tau caste structure. Basicaly summerized below.

Goffs: Fire caste, foot soldiers etc.
Evil Sunz: Air Caste, like going fast aircraft if possible
Bad moons: water caste, mentioned as being a merchat class in ork society
Snakebites: Earth caste agriculture, specialise in producing basic ork forms and fungus
Blood axes: Fire caste command: better grasp of complex stratagy and military planning than other clans
Deathskulls: earth caste scientists, mentioned that they wouold be excelant scientists if they werent so easily bored.

and the Old Ones/Brainyboyz function as ethereals.

Now it is widely accepted that the Tau were engineered by someone so is this where they got the idea? am I reading too much into this? anyone else see it too?

Yes. Though you did a nice job with the comparisons, the Orks were made by the Old Ones, the Tau were helped along their way by the Eldar (though not created by either). Just because you can compare the two, doesn't mean they're related.
Note: The Tau Caste system evolved pseudo-naturally, and was only made official when the Ethereals were introduced to the culture by the Eldar.

malika
09-01-2008, 17:07
Castes are normally social structures, however with the Tau there are actual biological differences between the Castes right? Was this perhaps done after the Ethereals showed up?

thomas2
09-01-2008, 17:33
The tau have always had biological differences between Castes, ie air caste could fly, fire caste stronger etc. Tau evolve easily (almost like kroot, evolve through eating). I think the question here is do the ork clans have similar genetic differences.

SpaceLanceCorporal
09-01-2008, 17:41
Considering how often ork tribes fight each other I don't think a co-operation based caste system has anything to do with it.

Adra
09-01-2008, 18:02
Now it is widely accepted that the Tau were engineered by someone so is this where they got the idea? am I reading too much into this? anyone else see it too?

Not really. The Ethereals do seem to have been messed about with but apart from that the main tau race has just been focused by the Ethereals wrather than bio-engineered.

Chaplain of Chaos
09-01-2008, 18:10
Also missing something huge.

Earth Caste don't fight.

Air Caste don't fight.

Water Caste don't fight.

Ethereals don't (usually) fight.

Orks... well all Orks fight.

Sephtar II
09-01-2008, 19:37
There is some suggestion in the dex that the character aspects of the clans are geneticaly encoded. Also the Orks as an entire race were designed to be warriors as sort of the old ones last weapon, the other aspects were engineered in to try a ensure a successful civilisation afterwards.

But yeah to be honest it is a stretch it was just something that occured to me. I have a little too much time on my hands at the moment.. :p

kikkoman
09-01-2008, 20:16
Goffs: Fire caste, foot soldiers etc.
Evil Sunz: Air Caste, like going fast aircraft if possible
Bad moons: water caste, mentioned as being a merchat class in ork society
Snakebites: Earth caste agriculture, specialise in producing basic ork forms and fungus
Blood axes: Fire caste command: better grasp of complex stratagy and military planning than other clans
Deathskulls: earth caste scientists, mentioned that they wouold be excelant scientists if they werent so easily bored.
Now it is widely accepted that the Tau were engineered by someone so is this where they got the idea? am I reading too much into this? anyone else see it too?

I read it more as similarities to the Eldar, klans are comparable to craftworlds.
Goffs=Biel Tann, most militaristic and fighty
Blood Axes= Alaitoc, most rigidly disiplined, very skilled infiltrators
Evil Sunz= Saim Hann, like red and going fast
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2159/2181573152_ff5334868f.jpg
etc.

The aspect boyz are the pro-warriors, and seperate into specializations of warfare (Burna Dragons, Tankbusta reapers, Scorpion Kommandos)

Though they also tug along the runty farmers/painters of their culture, usually to tug around big guns to back up da aspect boyz, or use as minefield disposal
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2391/2180784343_504f409d5c.jpg

and their love of warfare, especially when da biggest boss with da boss horns is there to lead the waaagh
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1348/853809247_f0ba7cd42a_m.jpg

both engineered by the Old Ones

Kage2020
09-01-2008, 21:04
Also, don't forget the "BrainBoyz" were actually Snotlings... Or, at least, they used to be. One has to hope that this is not GW suggesting that the Snotlings are actually the devolved Old Ones or, just as bad, that they were [i]one[i] of the races of Old Ones. ;)

Kage

BrainFireBob
09-01-2008, 21:06
Or the designers see four broad army "types" and represent them in the various codices:

1) The close combat monsters
2) The gun lovers
3) The mechanized "cav" army
4) The feral army

Hence the marine codices, the old Craftworlds, etc.

Kage2020
09-01-2008, 23:19
The one time I don't mention the creative design issue, and someone mentions it right after me. I'm so embarrassed... ;) (Just kidding.)

Kage