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PeG
10-01-2008, 18:23
I am a newbie VC player and I am going up against a high elf army next week. I knows that my opponent likes to play a dragon with a mounted melee character, usually few mages and then white lions, archers etc. I can see this causing some major problems for VC since he is a lot faster then most of my units and I am not sure about how to handle the combination of his magic (drain magic, +1 to dispel, some scrolls) and the dragon.

I am thinking about going really magic heavy to be able to prevent drain magic from happening as well as trying to magic his dragon to death but would prefer a more flexible solution that would allow me to put points into something else then core and magic. All suggestions are appreciated.

mightygnoblar
10-01-2008, 21:32
i would start by feilding a large core of zombies, against HE they tend to be much more points effecient than skeles as they main draw back (braindead) is prctically lost by the fact that HE always strike first anyway.
there are a number of good combinations that you could use, there is magic heavy as you suggested, however its best not to really on the magic phase to much, id probably settle for around 6 levels of magic
i wouls also suggest trying a couple of etherial units, as nowadays most high elf units really on their kills and usually (with the exception of spearman) do not have too much static combat res
overall i would definety rule out winning him by killing him in close combat (therefore id ignore units such as grave guard and ghouls) and go for a war of attrition, feeding him lots of zombies while bringing up more with your magic, your wait of numbers will eventually take its toll and all it takes is for him to have one bad round amd you've got him
against high elves i would suggest going with either a necrach (for obvious reasons) or to mix things up go for lahmians with innocense lost, them striking before even the most ellite of the high elves can have a huge shock factor and will really begin to help in protracted combats

lparigi34
10-01-2008, 21:52
VC and TK are IMHO the armies that will care the less for the ASF. Why?... YouŽll just won't run after the first round of combat, no matter who strikes first!

The way to beat those guys is having them flanked and outnumbered, so even if he causes more wounds, you'll win by CR. As already said in the previous thread.

ZOMBIES: they are dirty cheap for the excellent job they may perform here.

Also Ethereal Units can be a bit of annoyance. A Wraith in a block of Zombies shall be fun! Maybe Banshees are not the best, as Elves Ld is not bad across the army.

The Black Coach as any other chariot in the game can prove very effective against T3 - Low Armour Elves.

As for the Bloodline, I'd go With Strigoi first (give regeneration and either hatred or sinews) and equal chance to the other lines, except Lahmia, as in the case for the Banshees they may not be that effective here.

mightygnoblar
10-01-2008, 22:07
i thought also of recomending the black coach, however he said that his opponent uses a combat noble on a dragon, and the chances are that he'll be packing the star lance, this would make the the black coach a major liability in my opinion

Dragon Prince of Caledor
10-01-2008, 22:22
Let all his damage doing spells go off and just focus on dispelling drain magic. He kills ur guys u bring em back. Throw ethereal units into his elite elites. However if he is wise he would give one of the champions or characters the amulet of light... Take out his weaker units first. Throw zombies with the ethereals in the way of everything. Dire wolves combined with black knights would ruin a unit of spearmen. Flank em so they only get the one rank of attack and they will only have banner and maybe outnumber. There is a unit dead. If he takes something like swordmasters ignore em all together. I think that dividing and conquering is the way to go against an army that is so expensive. Make sure your units are big so that when you finally do win combat he runs:)

fubukii
11-01-2008, 06:13
take lahmian vampires with ASF, they are like in8-10 will strike before any of his troops hit on 3s wound on 2s

mightygnoblar
12-01-2008, 10:14
just a word of warning, be very wary of the banner of battle, ive seen a unit of twenty spearmen (plus noble with the banner) trash a 1500pt VC army by itself
a lot of your units will struggle against this (as the banner practically translate into d6 wounds) and so be very wary of sending units such as black knights into a unit if you suspect he is hiding the banner in there

Wolfmother
12-01-2008, 20:07
take 14 black knights with a vamp thrall then 2 necros one with book of movement

Xzazzarai
13-01-2008, 13:56
Let all his damage doing spells go off and just focus on dispelling drain magic. He kills ur guys u bring em back. Throw ethereal units into his elite elites. However if he is wise he would give one of the champions or characters the amulet of light... Take out his weaker units first. Throw zombies with the ethereals in the way of everything. Dire wolves combined with black knights would ruin a unit of spearmen. Flank em so they only get the one rank of attack and they will only have banner and maybe outnumber. There is a unit dead. If he takes something like swordmasters ignore em all together. I think that dividing and conquering is the way to go against an army that is so expensive. Make sure your units are big so that when you finally do win combat he runs:)

Except that divide and qunquer doesn't work at all when you play dead guys (allmost no marching) vs one of the fastest and most mobile armies in the game... Well, unless the HE player lets you.

Ignore SM with units that approx can move 8" (unless cav with general) when SM march 10"? How are you thinking?

Spears still strikes in two ranks, even if flanked, IIRC. And don't forget ASF here...

The way to defeat HE with VC is by numbers and fear. Pure and simple.
And magic, unless facing a magic heavy HE list. So don't rely too much on that one.

RavenBloodwind
13-01-2008, 15:09
Some reasonable advice above regarding outnumbering and attrition.

Just a few thoughts:
If he's taking a fighty lord on dragon at anything under 3k he'll only have room for 2 mages. Therefore it isn't unreasonable to consider 'outmagicking' him. As you said, just make sure to get rid of the the drain magic.

The masses o' zombies is really a good plan. Even though the elves are Ld 9-10 they can still fail that all-important fear test and not get to charge. Very little in the HE list is ItP or fear/terror. The zombies should be able to soak mass casualties and still have something left as an anchor for you to raise more.

I think the black coach is a mixed bag but if you can keep it from being smashed by the dragon lord it'll own the elven infantry.

Fhoen
13-01-2008, 15:21
Spears still strikes in two ranks, even if flanked, IIRC.

only to the front rank!
if flanked only models in base contact can fight...

Xzazzarai
13-01-2008, 20:19
only to the front rank!
if flanked only models in base contact can fight...

Yeah well that's kinda obvious... ^^

But hey, don't they get 3 ranks to the front? Even if flank-charged? If no, why not?