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zekrish
13-01-2008, 15:31
Greeting from the lands of blondes and polar bears!

I have played dark eldar sice thier realese and i have read up on all the fluff and canon i can find. And i was wondering are dark eldar really evil? I mean after all they just do what they have to to survive. The eldar have started the armargeddon wars to save thier own craftworlds and by doing so killed billions of humans to save maybe a million eldars.

Ofcourse what the dark eldar do is more evil, torture, skinning etc, but are they just not living by the same philosophy everyone i 40k live after; ''Rather you then me!''

Chaplain of Chaos
13-01-2008, 15:47
They do what they need to to survive, but they embelish and enjoy doing it way to much... Sure you want and need souls to extend your own lifespan and protect yourself from She Who Thirts, but to the Dark Eldar Souls in terrible agony just taste so much better so why not have fun putting their slaves and victims through horrible torment just to add some seasoning.

dr.oetk3r
13-01-2008, 15:51
They enjoy inflicting pain and suffering. I'd say that makes you pretty evil.

Chaos Undecided
13-01-2008, 15:56
They may be doing what they do to be able to survive but theres never any indication that they have any regret over what they do if anything they get a malicious pleasure from it so they certainly tick all the boxes for evil.

Question you have to ask though is can any of the races in 40K really be described as "Good"?

Johnnyfrej
13-01-2008, 16:12
Question you have to ask though is can any of the races in 40K really be described as "Good"?

Easily, the Imperium of Man. We humans are the most holy, pure, and righteous in a galaxy filled with inpure and despicable traitors, mutants and xenos.

Baaltharus
13-01-2008, 16:14
Well said, its as simple as that.

BaronDG
13-01-2008, 16:46
I agree. Well put!

Lastie
13-01-2008, 16:54
Putting Imperial propaganda aside ...

From our (current 21st century Humanity) perspective? The Dark Eldar are quite evil.

From their perspective? Dude ... what's this 'morality' crap? That just gets in the way of fun. ;)

malika
13-01-2008, 17:33
I think everybody in the 40k universe views themselves as good and all the others as evil, no matter what race, culture, society, ideology, etc.

Emperor's Avenger
13-01-2008, 17:43
They are evil, because they do have a choice (the Craftworld way), and even if they didn't then they still enjoy it far too much, and they were doing exactly the same thing before the Fall.

Chaos Undecided
13-01-2008, 17:50
I think the Tyranids just view everyone else as lunch :evilgrin:

Nice to see Imperial Dogma alive and well in the 21st century :p, discussing the morality of the Imperium probably deserves a topic of its own tbh

malika
13-01-2008, 17:59
They are evil, because they do have a choice (the Craftworld way), and even if they didn't then they still enjoy it far too much, and they were doing exactly the same thing before the Fall.
They dont view the others as equals, I mean you dont view kids who willingly kill ants with matches as evil for example. The Dark Eldar are very similar in this, they view the entire universe as their playground and all the other lifeforms in it as nothing more but playthings.

Chaplain of Chaos
13-01-2008, 18:27
If the ants where sentient things that screamed and cried out for mercy as the kid stomped and burned them than yes that kid would be evil to the core.

Da Black Gobbo
13-01-2008, 18:33
They are xeno scum that must be exterminated without mercy. They are evil.

I think chaos guys see them selves as bad guys but they don't give a ***** about it. Same on Dark panzees...er Eldar.

Chaos and Evil
13-01-2008, 18:45
Dark Eldar could choose the path of the Craftworld Eldar, or the Exodite Eldar... but no, their solution is lots and lots of rape and murder.

Yes, they're evil. :)

Kage2020
13-01-2008, 18:47
Morality is relative except when viewed through a single metaphysical paradigm. Stock answer, but one that is subject to variation in the Imperium. Oh the joys.

Kage

malika
13-01-2008, 18:54
If the ants where sentient things that screamed and cried out for mercy as the kid stomped and burned them than yes that kid would be evil to the core.

Isnt that in itself quite an ethnocentric idea? I mean in our (Western culture) certain things are good and evil while in other cultures these same "good" and "evil" are exact opposite. Does it immediately mean that these people would be evil? Yes...cultural relativism!


Dark Eldar could choose the path of the Craftworld Eldar, or the Exodite Eldar... but no, their solution is lots and lots of rape and murder.

Yes, they're evil.
The Craftworld Eldar commit genocide on an interstellar scale just to save the life of one Eldar in a million years. The Exodites and Craftworlders lead regimented lives to oppress their decadence. You might say that this need for murder/rape/pleasure/insanity the Dark Eldar seem to have might also be present amongst the Craftworlders and Exodites, they just oppress their "nature", does that make them good or evil in another way?

Sgt Biffo
13-01-2008, 19:49
There was a thread a few months back that was exactly on this topic. It got shut down because it became a thread about modern morality and personal beliefs instead of a thread about DE.

The problem with the original statement is that it relies on everyone having the same view of what is evil. Machiavellian necessity is entirely different compared to sadism and willful ignorance different again.

To me Dark Eldar are Nihilistic. They don't really communicate except by violence and they don't really believe in gods (though they do rituals to avoid their souls being taken by Slaanesh, but this is more self preservation than deification).

If you really want to know if they are evil perhaps you should look at the first description of them in their own codex:

"... , for if anybody in the Warhammer 40,000 universe could be called properly evil, it is the Dark Eldar."

...Pretty succinct really!


they just oppress their "nature", does that make them good or evil in another way?

The super egos control over the id and the relationship of said factors to the metaphysical is perhaps better left to a different type of forum.

Kage2020
13-01-2008, 19:56
Yep, better not let any discussion of the 40k universe bring in too much reality. ;)

Kage

Iracundus
13-01-2008, 20:02
The Dark Eldar may go about fending off Slaanesh by consuming the souls of their slaves but it isn't explcitly said all that torture and sadism is necessary to the process of consumption. All that extra stuff seems above and beyond what is strictly necessary for their survival.

Xisor
13-01-2008, 22:49
I cannot think of any view of 'morality' the describes good and evil that'd class the Dark Eldar as anything but "Whoah! Stay away from the lot..."

It's a subjective old one. But other than defining the Dark Eldar 'way of life' as 'good' (i.e. an almost unrestrained hedonism ) I can't see how you'd end up with the DE not being evil. Certainly, given the prevailing moralities of today's modern world, I cannot imagine anything [i]more evil than the Dark Eldar in 40k. In this sort of comparison Chaos really isn't that bad. Baby raping murderers aren't that bad. (As Dark Eldar do a whole lot more besides...)

If you see my point, of course.

A better illustration might be: pick a line for which you say "Evil is on the other side", for pretty much every line you'll find the Dark Eldar haven't a major moral quandry in stepping across it.

For Chaos, of course, it's quite different. Evil would very much, I assume, be going against the will of Chaos. Hence why Horus was so very convinced of the Emperor being 'false', a fraud, a fake. He thought the Emperor's contribution to humanity would be, in the end, a great evil. Similarly, a Nurgle cultist may well view medicine as evil as it denies the happiness and caring embrace of Father Nurgle. It's a more difficult one with Chaos, but I do feel that generally speaking Dark Eldar >> Chaos in terms of evil.

Kage2020
13-01-2008, 23:38
I cannot think of any view of 'morality' the describes good and evil that'd class the Dark Eldar as anything but "Whoah! Stay away from the lot..."
I would suggest that - self-evidently - it would be their own.

As to explicitly stating anything? If we had to wait for that, we wouldn't have a discussion forum. Suffice to say that a number of sanguinary rituals that are an act of propitiation involve acts that would be considered "nasty"... especially to the victim. For an obvious visual, go with Apocalypto. ;)

Kage

Chaplain of Chaos
13-01-2008, 23:43
The Dark Eldar don't consider themselves good, and they revel in the terror their "evil" image inspires in others.

Kage2020
13-01-2008, 23:46
Yet do they really consider it "evil," hence your own quotation marks? Seems to be very much like the whole "Satanism" thing, but there we go. That's probably getting a bit too close to the topics that shut down the last thread.

Kage

Dark Seraphs
13-01-2008, 23:49
Everybody in Warhammer aren't all nice, I'd say Eldar and Tau are the nicest but not good.

the reason why DoW uses "Order vs Chaos" rather then "good vs Evil"

Commander Dante
14-01-2008, 03:28
Also according to the 4th edition rule book:
"The Dark Eldar are utterly, irrevocably evil and corrupt in every sence"
the rest of the passage on page 145 gets in more depth on how cruel and sadistic they are.
The Dark Eldar are really terrible compared to the races. They revel in the fact that they are a scourge on all other races. They have no aspirations of reclaiming thier lost worlds like some of the Craftworld Eldar, nor do they seek to purge or conquer the galaxy such as Chaos, the Imperium, Nids, Necrons, Orks and Tau. They exist soley to bring terror to all the lesser races. They are terryfying enough to make Khrone Beserker cry in fear, and sadistic enought to make a Emperor's Children Chaos Marine scream in pain. They are the ultimate torturers and the most terryfying foes.

Kage2020
14-01-2008, 03:40
Yeah, but that's also similar to the original designers idea that Chaos was meant to be the "ultimate evil." It's all about the sales pitch.

Kage

Commander Dante
14-01-2008, 04:01
Yeah, but that's also similar to the original designers idea that Chaos was meant to be the "ultimate evil." It's all about the sales pitch.

Kage

But Chaos seeks to conquer the Galaxy where as Dark Eldar do not. In my mind that is the key difference.

Kage2020
14-01-2008, 04:52
Surely that's just how much weight is given to the race in question? The only time that Chaos seems to "conquer the galaxy" is at the time of the latest summer campaign.

Kage

Sgt Biffo
14-01-2008, 04:56
I always felt that Chaos was supposed to be insane, manic and random, which is a far cry from evil.

I'm not so sure that conquering the galaxy is their goal. Khorne just revels in slaughter (totally with out thought or malice... more a primal bestial instict), Slaanesh in excess and debauchery, Nurgle in suffering. The closest would be Tzeentch, but having an ultimate goal is very unlike it as its the scheming and deceiving that Tzeentch thrives in.

Its only recently that Chaos has been branded with the "Evil" stick.

Commander Dante
14-01-2008, 05:11
Surely that's just how much weight is given to the race in question? The only time that Chaos seems to "conquer the galaxy" is at the time of the latest summer campaign.

Kage

Fluff wise there are several instances like the other 12 black crusades and the Horus Heresy..the Chaos Gods want everybody to worship them by conquering or persauding them. It's similary to the Spanish Inquistion or Crusades and many other examples on earth.

randomalias
14-01-2008, 05:15
I'm of the opinion that the Dark Eldar are the most evil race in the whole 40k galaxy. Where Chaos are influenced by their Gods, which themselves are just reflections of emotions in the warp, the Dark Eldar willingly indulge in decadence, slavery and torture. Most other races either don't have a choice in their nature, or have chosen the lesser of two evils. The Dark Eldar chose the most evil way possible to survive when they could have been alot nicer. Which is what makes them so unique in my books, and damned cool.

malika
14-01-2008, 10:09
I remember an FAQ on the GW website around the time the Necron Codex came out where somebody asked a question if the Necrons are evil, the answer was basically that the Necrons were way more evil than the Dark Eldar. Like kage says, GW calls a certain race "the ultimate evil" just to rise the sales.

Lastie
14-01-2008, 10:24
So are we agreed in that 'evil' is directly proportional to the desire by GW to sell the models? :p

CryoMax
14-01-2008, 20:51
Good cannot exist without evil; evil cannot exist without good. And which is which is a matter of perspective.

Some argued they're evil because they "have a choice" and "chose their way". But this isn't very accurate, either. Do you think a Dark Eldar *individual* could choose to suddenly pack up and go find a Craftworld to take refuge on? No, they're born into the society, and societies are designed to keep their peoples.

The descriptions in the Codices are all written from a human perspective, and *modern* human societies, for the most part, do not condone the activities of the Dark Eldar; therefore, they are evil. But let us not forget that we are not that far beyond. Torture was commonplace in the middle ages; rape was practically accepted (the king had the right to bed any bride before her marriage, whether she liked it or not) in some circles. These are not that far from the practices of Dark Eldar society. At the time, many of these acts were not even considered evil.

Turn the "Way back clock" some more and go back to the Aztec civilization, where human (and virgin) sacrifice was part of the life.

"Evil" is an entirely subjective argument. Most societies hold murder as evil -- but killing innocents as an act of terrorism is actually upheld as a GOOD thing in some religions. And I'm not just talking about Islam; plenty of innocent people have been killed by Christians in the name of their faith -- read up on some recent history about the attacks on abortion clinics and doctors.

In the 50's, through to the late 80's, communism was "the great evil" and all manner of propaganda was circulated depicting the design of a communist government as horribly evil. Did that make those people who were loyal to their communist home countries evil? Kinda depends on which side you were on.

Are Dark Eldar evil? Only if you're Eldar, Imperium, or Tau. Tyranids probably don't have a sense of good/evil to begin with. Not sure if Orks would make such a philosophical division, either. Chaos seems like they might actually be fine with the Dark Eldar -- except for the fact they stand in their way. :)

...Paul

Commander Dante
14-01-2008, 23:01
true that evil is a matter of perspective but there is Something about the Dark Eldar that i feel sets them apart from the rest of the races. They have no motivation or instinct to what they do. Orks wage war cause they are bred too, Chaos is naturaly violent and Chaotic, The Necrons and Tyranids seek to purge the galaxy, Eldar and the Imperium defend themselves, and the Tau seek to expand. Dark Eldar dont have such motivations, or Gods to please. They drink the souls out of nessisity true enough but the torture is just out of pure personal pleasure. They are sophisticated and Intelligent...its like the whole race is just a bunch of demented serial killers.

Sgt Biffo
15-01-2008, 00:00
Careful CryoMax. While I believe you have some very good points; that sort of stuff got the last thread shut down (as I have pointed out before).

@Commander Dante:

I think your onto something here. Orks warfare is part of its reproductive cycle, Necrons and Tyranids are slaves to higher (or more base) motivations, Imperium and Eldar are fighting for survival of their race, Chaos are deluded by insane gods...

...Dark Eldar despise and destroy all life including their own. Their entire economy is based on terror. Inflicting pain and prolonging death are held as the highest art forms.

Such societies that have practiced such exploits in modern history have not done so for very long, have invited punitive actions in reprisal (some have even been destroyed by this!) and have been viewed as a with abhorrence by their contemporaries and as a curiosity by virtually every subsequent society.

More over; such exploits have a rational purpose (such as instilling said institutions with a terrifying reputation, destroying heritage, or even population control), though this may be cloaked in a different guise.

Dark eldar just do it for kicks...

stormblade
15-01-2008, 08:52
Dark eldar just do it for kicks...

And that's what makes them truly evil- what they do, they do not out of necessity but out of sheer selfishness.

Ignatum
14-02-2010, 02:40
There are two armies I believe truly aren't evil:

The Orks and The Tau.

The Orks: They just want to fight. That's all. They have no need to torture or inflict more pain the necessary, they don't want to take over everything. If you put them on a planet where there were constant enemies spawning, I'm sure they'd be content. They're about as evil as a couple drunks outside a bar.

The Tau: They're expanding. They're a new race. They're colonial America. And sure, what happened may have been pretty "evil", it's saintly when compared to the current state of affairs in 40k.

Tokugawa100
14-02-2010, 04:11
Dark Eldar are very evil, especially because they came from a race which taught kindness, honour and respect.
They threw these values away for their own selfish reasons and have no regrets, they are basically a race of sociopaths who care little for anyone but themselves.
Even though they see the lesser races as nothing but animals, I think Animal Cruelty is high up there on some of the worst things you can do so In my opinion the Dark Eldar are very evil, possibly ther most evil.

Tokugawa100
14-02-2010, 04:27
Good cannot exist without evil; evil cannot exist without good. And which is which is a matter of perspective.

Some argued they're evil because they "have a choice" and "chose their way". But this isn't very accurate, either. Do you think a Dark Eldar *individual* could choose to suddenly pack up and go find a Craftworld to take refuge on? No, they're born into the society, and societies are designed to keep their peoples.

The descriptions in the Codices are all written from a human perspective, and *modern* human societies, for the most part, do not condone the activities of the Dark Eldar; therefore, they are evil. But let us not forget that we are not that far beyond. Torture was commonplace in the middle ages; rape was practically accepted (the king had the right to bed any bride before her marriage, whether she liked it or not) in some circles. These are not that far from the practices of Dark Eldar society. At the time, many of these acts were not even considered evil.

Turn the "Way back clock" some more and go back to the Aztec civilization, where human (and virgin) sacrifice was part of the life.

"Evil" is an entirely subjective argument. Most societies hold murder as evil -- but killing innocents as an act of terrorism is actually upheld as a GOOD thing in some religions. And I'm not just talking about Islam; plenty of innocent people have been killed by Christians in the name of their faith -- read up on some recent history about the attacks on abortion clinics and doctors.

In the 50's, through to the late 80's, communism was "the great evil" and all manner of propaganda was circulated depicting the design of a communist government as horribly evil. Did that make those people who were loyal to their communist home countries evil? Kinda depends on which side you were on.

Are Dark Eldar evil? Only if you're Eldar, Imperium, or Tau. Tyranids probably don't have a sense of good/evil to begin with. Not sure if Orks would make such a philosophical division, either. Chaos seems like they might actually be fine with the Dark Eldar -- except for the fact they stand in their way. :)

...Paul

OK, so you give us a whole bunch of examples from the past and far past.
The fluff saids the Eldar have developed for so many years that they have reached the limits of emotional and psychological and sociological development.
This means they would be fully aware of what would be considered bad by most societies and realise that harm is a horrible thing to bring upon any creature.
First things first, the Eldar are a race which has existed for billions of years "not 100% on the figure" and there is even proof in the codex that Eldar evolved into a highly intelligent, compassionate race.
They know what is wrong in their society and look down upon violence, rape, pain etc.
What need would they have for it, they were basically gods with the power to shape the universe.
The Eldar who were the Dark Eldar went against this making them evil by the standards of their own teaching and society.
In a way they know what they do is wrong, they love that it is wrong and they just dont care.

I mean lets put it like this.

A man goes around slaughtering people and desicrating their bodies because their souls keep him alive for a little while longer, keep in mind that because of how violent his living space is he will probably drop dead on his next trip through the streets so his recent victims will have dies in vain anyway, but because his doing it for survival, does this make him good?
Ask yourself that.

And I will say this much because I dont want this thread to go to PnR.
The Religions you mention do not actually think these things are ok, its the individuals who think its ok and use the religion as an excuse to hate anyone with a differing opinion.

MetalGecko23
14-02-2010, 05:04
No their not really evil. They just pretend like all the other Eldar do.

Ivellis
14-02-2010, 05:24
Dark Eldar are very evil, especially because they came from a race which taught kindness, honour and respect.
They threw these values away for their own selfish reasons and have no regrets, they are basically a race of sociopaths who care little for anyone but themselves.
Even though they see the lesser races as nothing but animals, I think Animal Cruelty is high up there on some of the worst things you can do so In my opinion the Dark Eldar are very evil, possibly ther most evil.

Err, no, that's not what happened. Pre-fall Eldar were even worse than the Dark Eldar, they had no mercy, no honour, no respect and worst of all, no restraint. The Craftworld Eldar were a specific faction of Eldar pre-fall who believed what the other's were doing was wrong and left.

So, yeah... Craftworlders are the ones who threw away previous 'values'.

Tokugawa100
14-02-2010, 06:32
Err, no, that's not what happened. Pre-fall Eldar were even worse than the Dark Eldar, they had no mercy, no honour, no respect and worst of all, no restraint. The Craftworld Eldar were a specific faction of Eldar pre-fall who believed what the other's were doing was wrong and left.

So, yeah... Craftworlders are the ones who threw away previous 'values'.

Hhhhhhhhhhmmmmm, just read the Eldar codex and I may be at a fault, I would definately not say they were worse then the Dark Eldar by any means though.
Their down fall was their pride and arrogance, they werent sadistic and sociopathic until the pleasure cults popped up.

Ivellis
14-02-2010, 06:38
Hhhhhhhhhhmmmmm, just read the Eldar codex and I may be at a fault, I would definately not say they were worse then the Dark Eldar by any means though.
Their down fall was their pride and arrogance, they werent sadistic and sociopathic until the pleasure cults popped up.

This is a race that was so sick and twisted that they single handedly created Slaanesh with their dispicable acts and lack of restraint. I tend to think they were more than just prideful and arrogant. (Though they were those too.)

Canis007
14-02-2010, 07:13
I wish dark eldar were not so into the whole lustfull kiling thing.

Tokugawa100
14-02-2010, 07:30
This is a race that was so sick and twisted that they single handedly created Slaanesh with their dispicable acts and lack of restraint. I tend to think they were more than just prideful and arrogant. (Though they were those too.)

The reason I say worse is, the first Eldar did horrible things but they didnt realise what kind of an impact it would have, the current Dark Eldar know exactly what kind of impact their decadence can have and they learnt nothing from their mistakes.

Surely to know you are doing something wrong which has a horrible impact on the universe is worse.

DetriusXii
14-02-2010, 19:48
The Dark Eldar have the option of equipping soul stones so that their souls aren't devoured by Slaanesh. They choose to torture captives instead. So I would say they are evil.

Lord Malorne
14-02-2010, 20:04
In 40k everyone is evil, just to varying levels.

Cromwell Haarlock-Leth
14-02-2010, 20:34
The quote below is coming from the Lexicanum, with all its qualities and limits:

"Sects called Pleasure Cults were formed, dedicated to achieving the highest levels of hedonistic sensation, and their ceremonies and practices became ever more wild, eventually devolving into violence and sacrifice of their own kind. Some Eldar hated what their race had become and left the Homeworlds for the virgin Maiden Worlds, or left on the newly-constructed Craftworlds, leaving the Pleasure Cults to their madness. "
The Dark Eldar are the descendants of the survivors of those Cultists. (also stated in the same article).

This means that, for them, this way of life was already usual.
When they discover they now suffer from the Thirst, which "forced" them to kill people to drink their souls if they want to remain alive, they did it in the same ritualized and cruel way their ascendants did, maybe to lure Slaanesh (after all, they are doing exactly what brings Her/Him to life).
It's as if they were a paradoxal society, despising (and fearing) Slaanesh, while doing exactly what a Slaaneshy cult would do.
That makes me think to a primitive tribe living near (and fearing) a volcano: they hate it, but still sacrified human lives to keep it quiet.
Was this tribe evil? From its point of view, no. They knew what they do was cruel, but they though it was necessary.
I also think that the DE know that what they do is cruel, but that they view it as necessary.
And, in my opinion, they believe that the crueler they are, the longer Slaanesh will spare their lives. Consciously or not: this could be the result of their sociological evolution, as the fact we consider normal to work to earn our wages, and that their amount depends of our work. Remember that it was not always the case. Hence the torture, which was already part of their culture (see above).
Are they evil? From anyone else point of view, yes. From their point of view? No. They're just doing what allow them to live longer, to keep their souls away from Slaanesh.
I also think that some them could make the following reasoning:
"I know that I will suffer agonizing pains for an eternity after my death. If I should go through such an horror, why should the others be spared?"
That's truly evil, IMHO.

Cuchulain84
14-02-2010, 20:39
I see them as the same level of evil as Vampires.

Idaan
14-02-2010, 21:27
Actually, Dark Eldar aren't mainly descendants of Pleasure Cultists. As Vect describes it in "Torturer's Tale", he and most of his followers were just children about to be sacrificed (or worse) on the night of the Fall, as culmination to the obscene rituals of the cults. They had no idea about the world and no-one to teach them how to live differently, with the Craftworlders and last sane people long gone from the Eldar homeworlds. They were innocent children at the time of the Fall and they just grew from there, in the only way they knew. Could you call the IRL feral children, child prostitutes, criminals and soldiers or the Soviet Russian bezprizornij really evil?

Cromwell Haarlock-Leth
14-02-2010, 22:06
@Idaan:
I didn't read this book, so I believe you. Thanks for the correction. And +1 for the end of your post.

As I wrote, I was refering myself to the Lexicanum, with its limits, which states:
"Of the few survivors of the Pleasure Cults, some remained sane and able. They found to their horror that Slaanesh had not yet finished with the Eldar – S/he was slowly draining their souls while they still lived. To escape this these survivors fled in small groups to the Webway, the system of sealed tunnels that run through the Warp and enabled the Eldar to traverse the galaxy safe from attack by Daemons and other Warp creatures. Deep in the Webway, these small groups came together and laid the foundations of Commorragh. More and more survivors began to arrive, and added their own parts to the new city, making it even larger and more heavily populated."

But I think a DE novel is a more accurate source (No irony intented), since their origins are clouded in the legends (ie: not very clear in the Codex!).

Tokugawa100
15-02-2010, 07:25
@Idaan:

But I think a DE novel is a more accurate source (No irony intented), since their origins are clouded in the legends (ie: not very clear in the Codex!).

Indeed.

Sometimes I think threads like

"are dark eldar truly evil"

or

"how many dark eldar are there"

etc.

are all pretty futile questions.

Our codex is so unclear and filled with nothing but strips of material from the perspectives of their victims or enemies.
Once we have a codex up to the current standards pf other codexes I think it should help answer a few questions and give us a better understanding of who the Dark Eldar are.

Idaan
15-02-2010, 17:21
@Idaan:
I didn't read this book, so I believe you. Thanks for the correction. And +1 for the end of your post.

The bit of fluff I mentioned isn't a novel, it's a short story by Gav Thorpe that was available on GW's site but was since taken down. Have a read if you will, it's a piece of great writing that also sheds some light on the Dark Eldar. Brought to you by the Wayback Machine:

EDIT: the WBM is wonky and won't work right now, so here's another link. Sorry for any possible copyright infringement, but if it's available in the WBM there shouldn't be any (?). Mods please delete the post if that's a problem.

http://quizilla.teennick.com/stories/7951730/a-torturers-tale

Lord of Worms
16-02-2010, 09:28
To be honest, Dark Eldar are the textbook definition of it. If you wanted to get relativistic about it in order to demonstrate that they weren't, that would mean that evil itself doesn't exist and the debate becomes moot.