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brother malthius
13-01-2008, 18:47
Hi all, this is my revised (for the bajillionth time) Empire army list. Tell me what you think.

Templar Grand Master, General, Sword of Righteous Steel,
Talisman of Protection, Laurels of Victory, 245 Pts

Captain of the Empire (BSB), Full Plate Armor, Imperial Banner, 183 Pts

Battle Wizard, lvl 2, Dispel Scroll x 2, Lore of Death, 150 Pts

Warrior Priest of Sigmar, Hammer of Judgement, Armor of Meteoric Iron, 140 Pts

9 Knightly Orders, full command, Steel Standard, 267 Pts

35 State Troops, 245 Pts
20 Swordsmen, full command,
5 [Det] Handgunners
10 [Det] Spearmen, Shield

20 State Troops, 160 Pts
10 Handgunners, Mus and champ (with Hochland Long Rifle)
5 [Det] Free Company
5 [Det] Free Company

10 Flagellants, 100 Pts

5 Pistoliers Mus + champ (with repeater pistol), 114 Pts

1 Mortar, 75 Pts
1 Great Cannon, 100 Pts
1 Helstorm Rocket Battery, 115 Pts

10 archers with champ, huntsman, 105 Pts

Total Roster Cost: 1999

I figure the Templar GM will go with the knights, the priest with the swordsman block, the BSB with the gunner block, or roam around near the swordsman block as needed, and the mage will deploy with the scouts. (oh, crud. can they do that?)
The 2 free companies with the gunnery block are for baiting/countercharge.
Any comments?

The Farmer
14-01-2008, 04:01
First of all the mage cannot deploy with the scouts and before you take anybody's advice keep your army list if it is for fluff reasons or model restrictions. I adore fluff players.

Remember these are only suggestions

Templar Grand Master, General, Sword of Righteous Steel,
Talisman of Protection, Laurels of Victory, 245 Pts
Okay lose the talisman of protection its a waste of points and incredibly unreliable. The sword of righteous steel is also a bit costly for what it does, at ws6 you're gonna hit most people on 3's. If you really want the boost to twos then a sword of striking would be more cost effective. A sword of might or even a lance yields similar results for considerably less. With the knights I see a significant hammer unit.

Captain of the Empire (BSB), Full Plate Armor, Imperial Banner, 183 Pts
You're army lacks infantry which the banner helps keeping together. I mean you have one close combat unit which isn't immune to psychology and paying 100 pts just to keep that block into pay is not worth it. If you're gonna give him a magic banner mount him, the extra armour save makes the "kill me sign" not so apparent. Or you can replace him with a captasus instead of the huntsment if you want to march block and play aggressively.

Battle Wizard, lvl 2, Dispel Scroll x 2, Lore of Death, 150 Pts
Scroll Caddies should be lvl 1 as you're not going to get any spells off with just two levels of magic and only one bound spell

Warrior Priest of Sigmar, Hammer of Judgement, Armor of Meteoric Iron, 140 Pts
The hammer of judgement, though fluffy, is not efficient on a character with only two attacks. A simple great weapon will suffice to take advantage of being on foot. If you really want to go on a more offensive magic path then a bound spell on another character in addition to the Rod of Power on the wizard would give a decent magic phase.

9 Knightly Orders, full command, Steel Standard, 267 Pts
If you want a decent hammer unit with the GM then 6 Knights is enough. 9 Knights means you lose one combat res the moment one of your guys die and is incredibly expensive. If you want that point then a warbanner will suffice. If you have the points upgrade to IC for more bite.

35 State Troops, 245 Pts
20 Swordsmen, full command,
5 [Det] Handgunners
10 [Det] Spearmen, Shield
Buff the swordsmen to at least 25 allowing a buffer of 5 before losing a rank. Spearmen make bad detachments because most of the time detatchments arent going to be charged unless they're meant to die horribly, halberdiers or swordsmen make better detachments for the same cost.

20 State Troops, 160 Pts
10 Handgunners, Mus and champ (with Hochland Long Rifle)
5 [Det] Free Company
5 [Det] Free Company
Okay unit, if you like the hochland keep it otherwise lose it as one is incredibly unreliable and rarely does anything.

10 Flagellants, 100 Pts
Make this a core choice to fill out your core if you decide to make knights IC. With the points either buff them up to 14 as a shock attack killy unit or to 18 or 20 for a tarpit

5 Pistoliers Mus + champ (with repeater pistol), 114 Pts
Good choice

1 Mortar, 75 Pts
1 Great Cannon, 100 Pts
1 Helstorm Rocket Battery, 115 Pts
Okay I suppose, if you're facing any monsters or chariots two cannons are more reliable then one. The mortar is also a varied machine, it has its fans but it rarely kills stuff.

10 archers with champ, huntsman, 105 Pts
Incredibly hard to hide and champion isn't necessary. If you want to march block or machine hunt then a captain on a pegasus is superior. Once again if its fluff justified keep them

Total Roster Cost: 1999

I commend you on your efforts to get away from the standard Arch lector and infantry all-comers lists which are the norm. Once again these are merely suggestions and I attempted to suggests ways to be more efficient with points. It is up to you the way you play.

brother malthius
15-01-2008, 03:34
Hey, Farmer, thanks for taking the time to look at my list. I liked a lot of your suggestions, and some things I kept for fluffy reasons or because I liked the models better. Anyway, here's my revised list:

Templar Grand Master, Sword of Striking, Sigil of Sigmar, Laurels of Victory, 230 Pts
- Figured a bit of magic resistance couldn't hurt, right? maybe?

Captain of the Empire, Pegasus, Sword of Battle, Pistol, Dawn Armor, 158 Pts
- Is it worth the 35 points for the Dawn Armor for the "reroll failed armor saves"? The Sv is the same, 3+ no matter what. I like the pegasus though. I'm assuming I'll need to buy a bretonian peggy knight and convert it?

Battle Wizard, lvl 1, Lore of Death, 2x Dispell Scrolls, 115 Pts
- Good point about the level. I like the lore of death miniature, it's the primary reason why I selected that lore.

Warrior Priest of Sigmar, Great Weapon, Armor of Meteoric Iron, 119 Pts
- Great weapon is probably the way to go. Too bad my beutifully painted (if I don't say so myself) priest I already had wouldn't be WYSIWYG. Guess I'll just have to paint another one ;)

Knightly Orders, Full command, IC, Steel Standard, 294 Pts
- The other of the two units I have fully completed, along with a custom magnetic movement tray I JUST FINISHED YESTERDAY. Nope, its all 9 + TGM. lol.

39 State Troops, 269 Pts
24 Swordsmen, Full command
10 [Det] Halberdiers, Shield
5 [Det] Handgunners
- The priest will bring this full to 25/10/5. I like the Halby miniatures better anyway. (yes, I know its the same mini with a different pointy on the stick, but still)

20 State Troops, 160 Pts
10 Handgunners, Mus + Champ (with HLR)
5 [Det] Free Company
5 [Det] Free Company
- again, I like the HLR model. Plus it MIGHT hit someone.

15 Flagellants, 150 Pts

5 Pistoliers, Mus + Champ (Repeater Pistol), 114 Pts

Mortar
Great Cannon
Helstorm Rocket Battery
- The only game I've played with empire (using paper cutouts), the mortar got a lucky hit and took out several of my wife's (paper cutout) dryad unit plus wounded her general. I'm basically trying for flexability here. Plus I can't decide which way I want to build it, so I might as well do both.

10 archers, Huntsmen, 100 Pts
- I would like to have some deployment options a bit. Plus I like the fluffy idea I have in mind for them.

Total Roster Cost: 1999 (Again!)

So there were are. I wouldn't mind putting a few more gunners either in the detachment or the gunner block. If I put them in the block, I could put a few more free company guys in. Maybe have a rank of 6-7 each. There just wasn't the points.

Also, its possible the list might be a few points off. I've found a couple of point descrepencies in Army Builder regarding the Empire. I fixed the one for the Steel Standard (was 5 points more expensive than it should have been), however I'm pretty sure there was something else that was too expensive too. I just haven't been bothered to track it down.

The Farmer
15-01-2008, 07:40
Solid, agressive list. Remember WYSIWYG isn't vital in fantasy, though GW is trying to make it, as long as you declare all your things if your opponent asks.

Sigil of Sigmar is a fine choice as it makes your knights less vunreable to magic.
The armour on your captain could be excessive as any opponent will attack the mount not the captain as it is easier to kill and limits his mobility. If you're opponents are prone to attacking characters then by all means its probably the best option. Sword of battle is a nice touch as most of your enemies will be t3 machine crew so good. The pistol is also good as it allows pot shots when march blocking.

A pegasus captain will require you to convert or buy older miniatures.

Once again a solid list that will be fun to play against and hopefully with.

Spoonie
15-01-2008, 08:18
Much better, but a couple more things to think about. Personally, I wouldn't find any use in the two detachments of 5 free company for the handgunners. If you want to give them some protection from fast cav and such, you could give them 2 detachments of 5 archers instead to better effect, I would say. Or you could just let the hand gunners fend for themselves. Also, the halberd detachments don't need shields :)

For the Templar, I'd say a lance is probably better than the sword of striking. If you want to stay effective in rounds after the first I'd suggest taking the Laurels and the sword of power, but with 9 knights and a Grandmaster with the Laurels, I'd think the idea would be the charge in and break units on the charge. On that same note, since you're taking so many knights, I think they should definitely get the Banner of the Daemonslayer instead. That way even if you lose your second rank, the extra bodies might help with outnumber so you can autobreak enemies.

Lastly the captain, I'd suggest Aldred's Casket isntead of the Dawn Armor, his protection is his mobility. Otherwise running him with no magic items would be fine too, his job is a dangerous one so he might bite it.

Just made up my slant on it, you may find it to your liking (or not!). Although I do encourage at least some of the point saving things I listed, I managed to fit an entire other combat unit in place of the flagellants, and I think you'll find a second one very useful. I had 18 points left over, so I figured an extra pistoleer would be a good buy aswell.

Templar Grandmaster with Lance, Laurels of Victory, and Sigil of Sigmar

Captain of the Empire with Pegasus, Lance, Full Plate, Pistol

Battle Wizard with 2 dispell scrolls

Warrior Priest with Armor of Meteoric Iron, Great Weapon

9 Knightly Order - Inner Circle with Full Command, Banner of the Daemonslayer

24 Swordsmen with Full Command
- 10 Halberdiers
- 5 Handgunners

25 Swordsmen with Full Command
- 10 Halberdiers

10 Handgunners with a Marksman, Hochland Longrifle

6 Pistoleers with Outrider, Repeating Pistol

10 Archers with Huntsmen upgrade

Mortar

Great Cannon

Helstorm Rocket Battery

Edit - Just thought of this - Another alternative would be to drop the handgunner detachment, the banner of the daemonslayer, and the sigil of sigmar, and your second swordsmen unit could be upgraded to greatswords if you were so inclined, but I only mention this because I have a love affair with greatswords!