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View Full Version : New to fantasy. Starting Kislev apparently.



northoceanbeach
14-01-2008, 06:25
Soo...basically I bought a Kislev army because I thought they look cool and would be a fun army that noone else has. I don't know much about the rules, but have searched the archives here and people are saying they are just not very good. Now, I don't need to win every game, but I do like playing at least 50% of the hobby so I can't have an army that is unplayable, or won't make for a competitve game.

I've been reading the rulebook and I myself can't see why they wouldn't be good. I have 50 horsemen in 2000 points plus some kossars and either a bear fighter or an Ice Queen. Looks good on paper, but since I am not familiar with the other armies and have never played I really don't know.

Now, I know you can ally them, but if I bought a main army and took Kislev as allies, I couldn't use either of my characters and they are a big part of the army in my opinion. Also I couldn't take most of the models because you can't have that many allies. So that's out. Looks like my only real option besides swapping them out is to take an army and ally them with me. Any advice? Thanks.

Knights of Requiem
14-01-2008, 08:18
Any Army can Defeat Any Army At Anytime.

The key is, whether your playing as Kislev, or High Elves, or whoeever, is to play games before you make up your mind.

Half the people who talk about other armies as *crap* have not read the book, or have only seen them a few times in battle.

Just play with them, learn to get the feel of them, and learn how the do's and do not do's of the army. Sure they may have a smaller list then other armies, but they are still an army.

They may not come out looking the best, but they can still win, the key is to TRY!

You sound like your giving up before you have even deployed a unit onto the table!

Jedi152
14-01-2008, 08:36
Well first of all you'll need the Kislev army book - it was a free leaflet given away in WD. It should be easy enough to find one on eBay or from someone on here.

They aren't a bad army, they're just a bit of an afterthought, and so are particularly detailed - but any army is as competitive as any other.

The thing to do is to get a hold of the book, make whatever lists you can and try a few games.

northoceanbeach
14-01-2008, 08:50
Oh, I have the book, it's a 2004 chapter approved. I'm not giving up. I'm just wondering. See if I assemble and start painting, that's alot of work, and if they are not the ideal army for me I should get the right one.

Kerill
14-01-2008, 09:26
Congratulations on getting a new army first. Double congratulations for getting a unique one.

Kislev on their own are a bit of a weak army because:

They don't have any mages apart from Katarina (so no magic defence)
They can only choose common magic items (so very little customisability)

Having said that they have great cavalry against non ITP foe and stubborn heroes is a nice bonus.

One simple option you have by the way is to use some of them as normal empire troops- empire has a lot of core cavalry and other units anyway so you do it quite easily. This would also allow you to overcome the lack of choice in the kislev list.

For a quick example:

General of the empire, great weapon/lance, full plate, shield, holy relic
Level 2 Wizard, 2 dispel scrolls
Level 2 wizard, rod of power

6 Knightly orders, full command:steel standard (use kislev lancers)
10 archers (use kossars)
10 archers (use kossars)
20 swordsmen, FC + detachments
16 great swords, FC (stubborn goes with the kislev theme)

1 Bull Rhinox (use boris on the bear)

Kislev Allies:

Boyar, steed, h. armour, enchanted shield, sword of might
6 Gryphon Legion, FC, war banner
5 Winged Lancers, musician
5 Winged Lancers, musician
5 Horse archers, musician

Thats about 2000 points, you can use your kislevite models to represent almost all of it, it has some tactical flexibility but no gunpowder (to keep in theme) its very fast and hard hitting cavalry based with bows for shooting backup- just as it should be. The bear rider (bull rhinox) allows you to use the model and is a very powerful psychological and melee weapon. Ask your opponents to allow you to use ice magic for the two mages (who offer decent magic defence and, with the rod of power, the option for decent enough magic offence too).

And good luck with it all :)

rodmillard
14-01-2008, 09:41
a friend of mine runs Kislev with a DOW contingent, including hireling mages with Lore of Beasts. Similar process to the one kerill suggested, except his core army is Kislev and the allied contingent is DOW using the old mordheim kislevite models (assuming you can track them down - they've been off the GW webstore for a while)

Bloodknight
14-01-2008, 11:56
That's what I would do, either play DoW with Kislev allies (like I do) or just ask people in your gaming group (I guess they're for casual play, not competitive) if you can just include DoW wizards (with the ice lore for flavour) as Hero choices - after all they are just basic human wizards and most people should be ok with it.

The Kislev army itself is not bad, they just lack magic defense and a rare choice. Cannons fit in nicely (during SoC I remember there being rules for Kislev blessed cannons).

northoceanbeach
17-01-2008, 20:55
Thanks, great responses.
So by themselves, the army would be lacking. But someone somewhere else said I can't take Kislev as my main army and take allies with them. I haven't read this anywhere, don't know if it's true. Ideally this is what I would like to do, take some empire or DoW as allies with my Kislev for some artillary and heroes(wizards)
I'm sure most if not all people would let me slide on some things, but there are competitive people out there, so I would rather just not have to ask for any favours and make my army legal.

Festus
17-01-2008, 21:23
Hi

A Kislev Army on its own is fully legal. The problems of its Army composition are already given above.

By RAW (Rules as Written) Kislev may not include DoW, and a few RoR (Regiments of Renown) cannot be included too. But most RoR are allowed by RAW.
Basically there is little point in disallowing the DoW to Kislev, but you may run into trouble there.

Whether Characters from the DoW list can be hired as well is open to debate - most will disallow it, too. But it could be a way to include Wizards if your mates are laid back about that kind of stuff.

Empire are out, as are all other Armies from their own respective books. There are no rules for Allies in WHFB, as already said in the other thread: There are only rules for allied contingents to be added to other armies, and the only allied contingent up to date is the Kislev one.

My Kislev Army is a full cavalry Army, as the Kossars do not add anything of value to the army. They are too slow and too expensive for a decent rank bonus. Static CR can be gained by the Cavalry as well.
My main WL unit is 15 strong(12 in 1000 points), so CR of usually +4 (+1 Banner, +2 ranks, usually +1 outnumber with US30).If they get the charge, they will hurt - badly.
Supported is this unit by a unit of GL with WarBanner (6 strong) and a unit of WL 5 to 8 strong.
5 units of 5 HA each with a Musician provide tactical flexibility and a menial taskforce - WarMachine hunting, trapping, annoying,...
Two mounted Boyars assist where needed, often one is with a unit of HA to make them worthwhile in combat against the flank of a smallish regiment.
I love to add two Gallopper Guns and Bronzino in the near future (*Kislevized* models of course) to add another element. Depending on the group I play in, an Empire WarWagon has been spotted (Rules from Ravening Hordes Empire) and an Ice Mage or two - but those are inofficial additions.

I love the Tzarina, as the Lore of Ice can be devastating. The Bearriding Tzar is not as good - but he is cheaper at least ... You could use him as an Ogre Rhinox Rider as suggested above.

Festus

rogueTrader
18-01-2008, 16:10
Just as a small warning. I too have a Kislev army that I love the models for. However with the release of the empire book last year the 2004 annual is no longer considered "legal", at east for tournament play. I don't know if tournaments are something you are looking into or not.

Going through all of the different army books I've come to a personal decision that the Wood Elf list most closely matches the actual kislevite rules.

Kossars=Glade Guard (can even take 1 magical banner that lets them always stand and shoot)
Ungol Horse Archers=Glade Riders
Winged Lancers=Wild Riders. (on the charge cause fear, kind of like the wl panic rule)
Rangers=Waywatchers
The orion rules can be used for Boris on the bear, or a Glamorweave mage on a unicorn can be used for Katrina.