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Arhalien
14-01-2008, 19:02
Hi

I've suddenly become quite interested in the idea of a Pre-Heresy Thousand Sons army for some point in the future, and I was woindering a few things about them. I've checked Lexicanum but that doesn;'t seem to have an answer so I though I'd ask here.
Firstly: Did the legion have any specific imagery pre-heresy; was it the same Egyptian style that they have now or was it something different?
Secondly (more of a general question here): How did pre-heresy marines look in general, as I've seen two variations; like post heresy loyalist marines but with older armour marks, or far more elaborate in their appearance (primarily from Horus Heresy artwork). Is either of these more correct than the other?

Thanks!

trigger
14-01-2008, 19:17
Look at the the blood ravens
They are almost identical to the pre-heresy Thousand sons
And the blood reaven books also point towards that they are one in the same

Johnnyfrej
14-01-2008, 19:28
The dust marines technically haven't changed since the Rubric turned them all into empty suits of armor. If you want to make a pre-heresy 1kson army just use normal 1kson units but maybe paint/model them in a more ultramarinesish way rather than chaosy.

Icarus
14-01-2008, 19:33
Its worth sneaking a look the Horus Heresy artbooks, they have loads of cool pictures of pre-heresy Thousand Sons, including some cool stuff on the fall of Prospero.

Basically their armour is bright red with gold decoration, and they have a heavily Egyptian-influenced style. Their symbol is a scarab and many of them have that Egyptian-style crest on their helmets like current Thousand Sons do. They often wield cool-looking Halberd weapons.

Arhalien
14-01-2008, 19:37
Look at the the blood ravens
They are almost identical to the pre-heresy Thousand sons
And the blood reaven books also point towards that they are one in the same

Ah, interesting; hadn;t heard that before but now that I do it seems to make sense from the Blood Ravens fluff in the DoW manual


The dust marines technically haven't changed since the Rubric turned them all into empty suits of armor. If you want to make a pre-heresy 1kson army just use normal 1kson units but maybe paint/model them in a more ultramarinesish way rather than chaosy.

So possibly the standard 1ksons models but based on the loyalist plastics not the chaos ones?
I was thinking of using WFB Chaos Warrior helmets on the normal infantry (with horns cut off) as it would be cheaper than the metal heads and I think that maybe tehy;d look a bit ott on the entire army


Its worth sneaking a look the Horus Heresy artbooks, they have loads of cool pictures of pre-heresy Thousand Sons, including some cool stuff on the fall of Prospero.

Basically their armour is bright red, and they have a heavily Egyptian-influenced style. Their symbol is a scarab and they often wield cool-looking Halberd weapons.

I'll try and take a look when I'm next in GW ;)
And that last post was what I wanted to hear; Good to see that the cool egyptian theme isn;t just a post-heresy thing :)

Ghost Of Caliban
14-01-2008, 21:18
Look at the the blood ravens
They are almost identical to the pre-heresy Thousand sons
And the blood reaven books also point towards that they are one in the same


interesting, what books?

Arhalien
14-01-2008, 21:31
The Dawn of War series from the Black Library I think (haven;t read them but heard of them)

downundercadet07
14-01-2008, 21:45
The blood ravens really aren't that similar to the Ksons, actually.

They are a totally fleet based chapter, as opposed to having a homeworld. They don't integrate their psykers into the army to nearly the same degree that the Ksons did, as all the librarium's members are either leadership cadre, or grouped into that all-librarian veteran unit. They are (except the lost 3rd company) fanatically loyal to the Emperor, more so than most any other chapter (because they don't know their primarch). They maintain close relations with the Eldar, which I don't think the Ksons ever did, and they seek all kinds of knowledge, either technical or magical, as oppossed to just sorcery like the Ksons. Plus, they are heavily Native American/Pacific Northwest influenced as opposed to New Kingdom Eqyptian/ Near East influenced. Really, outside the very high incidence of psykers, there isn't a huge amount of overlap.

Talos402000
14-01-2008, 22:51
Here's some information from a guy who asked this same question a few years ago.
Some information that isn't in the article is that even then they had an egyptian motif with the scarab being prominent along with the blazing sun symbol.

They also named their units with egyptian sounding names (Photep, Khnum, Apophis, Etc...).

All the Legions top officers were either psykers or sorcerors or both.

Their Legion was organized into cabals (sorceror led command squads), covens (company sized units), and sects (chapter sized units).

Some special charachters aside from Magnus himself were Battle-Brother Amsu, the Standard Bearer of the Legion, Sorceror Uzthizaar (later a daemon prince), a sect commander and original Terran Marine from before Magnus was found, Sorceror-Librarian Phosis T'kar, also a sect commander, Librarian-Sorcerer Hathor Maat, and Battle-Sorceror Onouris Neith, and last but not least, Ahriman the Black, Chief Librarian-Sorceror of the Thousand Sons and second in command of the Legion itself.

Terran Thousand Sons had light skin like Europeans, Prospero Thousand Sons had darker skins like Egyptians.

Terran Thousand Sons and Prosperoan Thousand Sons were not mixed into the same units, but kept seperate.

Only the fates of Uzthizaar (Daemon prince), Magnus (Daemon Prince), and Ahriman (exiled) are known.

The fortress monastary of the Thousand Sons was named Tizca.

The Great Library of Tizca was named the Athanaeum.

Some notable formations of the Thousand Sons are:

The Rehati, the personal guard of Magnus himself.
The Scarab-Occult, a chapter composed only of Veterans (all of whom put out an eye so they would be one-eyed like their primarch and dyed their skin red).
The Meketre, T'kar's sect.
The Ankhet, Uzthizaar's sect.
The Anku Anen, called the Guardians of the Great Library. The Anen was a company in size and every member was at least a minor psyker.

Oh yeah, two things I forgot. Magnus's chief Tech Priest Advisor was named Telemoht, who after the Heresy was called the Abomination of Tzeentch. Second, the Thousand Sons used a special curved (even more than a scimatar, kind of like a sickle) Egyptian blade called a D'siah. It came in both sword and axe form.
The name of the Titan Legion under Magnus's command was the the Blazing Suns, afterwards known as the Suns of Dammnation.

PondaNagura
15-01-2008, 02:01
in some of the later HH artbooks, pics of the Ksons have the modern version of the helmet, which i believe was orginally reserved for either bodyguard, elite, veterans only. the standard troops either had regular helmets, or more popular the T-slit helms that had a sort of golden mask over a red helm.

Griffin
15-01-2008, 04:50
Talos, Where'd you find that info ?

ArtificerArmour
15-01-2008, 07:32
Here's some information from a guy who asked this same question a few years ago.
Some information that isn't in the article is that even then they had an egyptian motif with the scarab being prominent along with the blazing sun symbol.

They also named their units with egyptian sounding names (Photep, Khnum, Apophis, Etc...).

All the Legions top officers were either psykers or sorcerors or both.

Their Legion was organized into cabals (sorceror led command squads), covens (company sized units), and sects (chapter sized units).

Some special charachters aside from Magnus himself were Battle-Brother Amsu, the Standard Bearer of the Legion, Sorceror Uzthizaar (later a daemon prince), a sect commander and original Terran Marine from before Magnus was found, Sorceror-Librarian Phosis T'kar, also a sect commander, Librarian-Sorcerer Hathor Maat, and Battle-Sorceror Onouris Neith, and last but not least, Ahriman the Black, Chief Librarian-Sorceror of the Thousand Sons and second in command of the Legion itself.

Terran Thousand Sons had light skin like Europeans, Prospero Thousand Sons had darker skins like Egyptians.

Terran Thousand Sons and Prosperoan Thousand Sons were not mixed into the same units, but kept seperate.

Only the fates of Uzthizaar (Daemon prince), Magnus (Daemon Prince), and Ahriman (exiled) are known.

The fortress monastary of the Thousand Sons was named Tizca.

The Great Library of Tizca was named the Athanaeum.

Some notable formations of the Thousand Sons are:

The Rehati, the personal guard of Magnus himself.
The Scarab-Occult, a chapter composed only of Veterans (all of whom put out an eye so they would be one-eyed like their primarch and dyed their skin red).
The Meketre, T'kar's sect.
The Ankhet, Uzthizaar's sect.
The Anku Anen, called the Guardians of the Great Library. The Anen was a company in size and every member was at least a minor psyker.

Oh yeah, two things I forgot. Magnus's chief Tech Priest Advisor was named Telemoht, who after the Heresy was called the Abomination of Tzeentch. Second, the Thousand Sons used a special curved (even more than a scimatar, kind of like a sickle) Egyptian blade called a D'siah. It came in both sword and axe form.
The name of the Titan Legion under Magnus's command was the the Blazing Suns, afterwards known as the Suns of Dammnation.

I've heard nothing about this and I've studied the history of the 1k sons (well, kinda.) Source?

pookie
15-01-2008, 09:11
I've heard nothing about this and I've studied the history of the 1k sons (well, kinda.) Source?

same here, got to say that they would be the most detailed legion if this is all true, not that im doubting iot, it just seems starnge that in 16+ yeras ive never heard of 90+% of what you posted.

if its canon then good find ( or Kudos to who found it), but seems a little suspect and more 'fanfluff' to me.

*edit**

please dont think im saying your full of BS or making this up, and i dont profess to have read everything, im just curious as to the source so i can go check it out myself ( as i always do when i come across fluff/info ive not heard)

DantesInferno
15-01-2008, 09:21
Talos, Where'd you find that info ?


I've heard nothing about this and I've studied the history of the 1k sons (well, kinda.) Source?


same here, got to say that they would be the most detailed legion if this is all true, not that im doubting iot, it just seems starnge that in 16+ yeras ive never heard of 90+% of what you posted.

if its canon then good find ( or Kudos to who found it), but seems a little suspect and more 'fanfluff' to me.

I suspect Talos402000 is referring to the Horus Heresy: Visions of War series, but I don't have it on me...

ArtificerArmour
15-01-2008, 13:51
I have Collected visions, and don't recall any of that. :p

reds8n
15-01-2008, 14:02
Me too and a lot of that isn't ringing any bells.

I thought that type of sword was called a Kophesh or similar ?

If memory serves the picture of Prospero in the visions series consits of gleaming silver pyramid type affairs, and much of the imagery of the legion does maintain the Egyptian type theme.

And they were betrayed by Horus ! Go figure.:p

Fulgrim's Gimp
15-01-2008, 18:42
It does seem to be based closely on the HH artbooks ,but, with links joining parts of it such as the Abomination of Tzeentch being linked to the Thousand Sons and also some Epic info like the Suns of Damnation which I'm sure I've read on the SG website. If it is partially fanfic then it is good fanfic for once.

Talos402000
15-01-2008, 20:07
The information I have comes from several sources. One is the card game, another is the visions book, another is the Burning of Prospero side game, and the other is the Black Library Author list(restricted).

Here goes:

Some information that isn't in the article is that even then they had an egyptian motif with the scarab being prominent along with the blazing sun symbol.

This is taken from the art from the card game.

All the Legions top officers were either psykers or sorcerors or both.

Black Library forum list.

Their Legion was organized into cabals (sorceror led command squads), covens (company sized units), and sects (chapter sized units).

Black Library forum list.

Some special charachters aside from Magnus himself were Battle-Brother Amsu, the Standard Bearer of the Legion, Sorceror Uzthizaar (later a daemon prince), a sect commander and original Terran Marine from before Magnus was found, Sorceror-Librarian Phosis T'kar, also a sect commander, Librarian-Sorcerer Hathor Maat, and Battle-Sorceror Onouris Neith, and last but not least, Ahriman the Black, Chief Librarian-Sorceror of the Thousand Sons and second in command of the Legion itself.

All of these are in the card game.

Terran Thousand Sons had light skin like Europeans, Prospero Thousand Sons had darker skins like Egyptians.

Terran Thousand Sons and Prosperoan Thousand Sons were not mixed into the same units, but kept seperate.

Black Library forum list.

Only the fates of Uzthizaar (Daemon prince), Magnus (Daemon Prince), and Ahriman (exiled) are known.

Card game for Uzthizaar and common knowledge for Magnus and Ahriman.

The fortress monastary of the Thousand Sons was named Tizca.

The Great Library of Tizca was named the Athanaeum.

The card game.

The Rehati, the personal guard of Magnus himself.
The Scarab-Occult, a chapter composed only of Veterans (all of whom put out an eye so they would be one-eyed like their primarch and dyed their skin red).
The Meketre, T'kar's sect.
The Ankhet, Uzthizaar's sect.
The Anku Anen, called the Guardians of the Great Library. The Anen was a company in size and every member was at least a minor psyker.

The card game and Visions. The card information for the Scarab-Occult lists them as Veterans and the Anu list them as Psykers.

Oh yeah, two things I forgot. Magnus's chief Tech Priest Advisor was named Telemoht, who after the Heresy was called the Abomination of Tzeentch.

This guy will be a charachter in the upcoming Thousand Sons novel (takes place before the Burning of Prospero) and later during the Burning itself.

Second, the Thousand Sons used a special curved (even more than a scimatar, kind of like a sickle) Egyptian blade called a D'siah. It came in both sword and axe form.

This, you can see from the art on the cards.

The name of the Titan Legion under Magnus's command was the the Blazing Suns, afterwards known as the Suns of Dammnation.

That one is kind of iffy. I remember reading about that somewhere where it listed all the Titan Legiones but I'll be dammed if I can remember where.

I hope this helps and clears up any confusion.

pookie
16-01-2008, 09:04
cheers for that, i'l be able to track it down now.

one thing, what Card Game are you talking about? i think i know but for the life of me cant remmember..lol,

ArtificerArmour
16-01-2008, 11:42
The horus heresy cardgame. Alot of that are taken from the name given to the card's being played, and isn't expanded on exceptfor a picture, the name and the function the card plays in the game, IIRC.

reds8n
16-01-2008, 13:35
, another is the Burning of Prospero side game, and the other is the Black Library Author list(restricted).


Cheers for the update, cool to know, but what can I ask are these last 2 ? Is the burning a sub game of the card game or something ? Black Library Author list ?