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View Full Version : Yet another thread about plot advancement!



mick005usa
15-01-2008, 13:01
I know that everyone has their own ideas about what the future of 40k could entail. I think eveyone has also realized that GW will not be advancing the timeline of 40k in the near future. Having said this, with all the various theories about the "Armageddon" of the 40k universe, what does everyone really think?

Personally, I think the Imperium, or at least humanity, has a good chance of winning, despite the seemingly long odds stacked against them right now.

CELS
15-01-2008, 13:05
I guess one good way to find out what people really think... would be to search the forum archives... since this thread pops up with two-week intervalls...

And I think the Starchild and Ynnead will form a power duo, much like Neo and Trinity in the Matrix trilogy.

Baltar
15-01-2008, 13:14
Well, I imagine that the Imperium will win at Armageddon and eventually also retake Cadia, meaning that the 13th Black Crusade will fizzle out.

With the Black Crusade over, the Imperium will turn its might to destroying the fledgling Tau Empire.

The Orks will win against the Nids in the Octavian systems, but hopefully the Imperium will be smart and find some way to cripple that Waaaaghh before it begins.

At some point in the next hundred years, the Necrons will begin waking up in greater numbers, and the Tyranids will arrive en masse, meaning that we should expect as full as possible a mobilization of the resources of the Imperium, a consolidation of Ork power to prevent being killed off little by little, and a last great mobilization of Eldar might.

Hopefully the Necrons will recognize the Tyranids for the threat that they are, and the Necrons and Great Devourer will duke it out on a scale that makes the War in Heaven look like a frat party. The Tyranids will emerge victorious, but so weakened that the Imperium can whittle them down.

Thats best case scenario. The more likely worst case scenario is that the Nids eat everything.

Luckywallace
15-01-2008, 18:43
I think the current "frozen" setting could be the state of things for a long time, both in-universe and out.

On the Tyranid-front they are mostly trapped in a war with the Ork empires which qould equate to a huge meat-grinder for two races that have untold billions of lives to throw into such a war. I could quite easily imagine such a conflict lasting hundreds, perhaps thousands of years.

As for Armageddon, the Imperium is a bit too side-tracked by other wars to bring all of its might to bear and drive off the orks. Again that could stretch on for ages.

The Tau are still young and not a major galactic threat. They are probably more in danger of being munched by Hive Fleet Kraken (it's still out there, even if Leviathan are GW's poster-bugs) than taking over much major territory themselves.

As for the Necrons, the Nightbringer is only recently awakened and The Deciever seems content to be playing a slow, manipulative game. Unless the Void Dragon wakes up I would not imagine the 'crons to be taking part in huge galaxy-sweeping wars for a long time (though once Nightbringer gets all his forces mustered, this would curely happen).

The best potential for real plot development would be the continuation of the 13th Black Crusade. How far into the galactic core can Abaddon push? I think from a plot-point it is inevitable they won't get to Terra, but they could certainly get close.

How interesting would a Chaos invasion of the Sol System be, co-inciding with the awakening of the Dragon...? Not that it would happen.

Baltar
15-01-2008, 18:47
Chaos won't take Cadia because Cadia are the models for the Imperial Guard. The Imperium has the massive sales protection field.

Lord Raneus
15-01-2008, 18:56
I think that Cadia will be retaken, if for nothing else it is absolutely the #1 priority for the Imperium.

Once Cadia has been retaken, and Armageddon more or less settled down (preferably by Yarrick ripping Ghazgkull a new one :D ) then I pray that the Imperium will uttely blot out those arrogant Tau.

Unfortunately, that'll never happen because GW and their players like the Tau.
:(

Kage2020
15-01-2008, 21:38
If Cadia were taken, then it would go back to the zero-state... So probably the way that it would happen. ;)

Kage

The Guy
15-01-2008, 22:02
The Ultramarines will single handedly retake the entire glaxay by themselves. Using their great psychic power "GW photoshoot!"

But if GW have no biased intervening in the plot I'd say that chaos and necrons would be left. They are complete opposites and both evil. Out of them two I'd have to go for necrons winning.

Chaos and Evil
15-01-2008, 22:33
Personally I think that the Imperium would crack apart under its own weight, if given another thousand years or so.

Already there are autonomous regions which the Imperium fails to properly control, it can't win major wars on its home ground in a timely manner (Armageddon, Cadia), it can't stop a very minor power like the Tau from relentlessly advancing into Imperial space.

The Imperium is falling back in most sectors, holding in the line in a few...

At some point the Imperium will simply crack apart into autonomous regions, dozens, even hundreds of small empires, some worshipping the Emperor, some the great Omnissiah, some simply following their local strongman...

Perhaps then, with the ability to innovate and compromise restored to Humanity, the people of the 41st millenium will stand a chance of survival...

downundercadet07
15-01-2008, 22:44
First, the Starchild leads Cypher to the Imperial Palace after ages of wandering. The Lion's sword reassembles in the Emperor's presence, then releases him from the mortal coil.

Massive war kicks off near the center of the galaxy with the awakening of the Dragon, the death of the Emperor, and the breakthrough of the 13.5th great crusade. Necron, Ork, Human, and Chaos forces clash, with space marines on both sides sustaining unsurvivable casualties and dwindling into virtual extinction over a period a few centuries.

Eventually Necrons gain the upper hand in the conflict against the younger races. The orks and humans suffer terrible losses across the galaxy until the Eldar, apparently non-players up until this point, affect the course of events to bring all the surviving C'Tan into a final battle. Orks, Humans (including the precious few surviving space marines), and the entire remaining Eldar race engage the Necrons at Rhana Dandra. The C'tan are killed one by one, along with each of the pheonix lords, and those Primarchs who survived ten thousand years to take part in the battle. The eldar host is completely annhillated. The battle field is still, with no survivors. For the first time in an eternity, the galaxy is at peace.

Elsewhere, a human child is born, seemingly unremarkable in every way, but possessing the reincarnated soul of the emperor. And as the last eldar bleeds away on the battlefield, the newest Eldar god, Ynneed, rises up and strikes down Slannesh, destroying the decadent beast and absorbing his energy. In time, a new Eldar pantheon is born, and in time, they will create mortal offspring.

FiendishTau
15-01-2008, 22:46
I did have an idea not too long ago when thinking about this, as a sort of compromise between the stability of a non-advancing plotline and the extra interest generated by a progressive storyline:

Quite simply, would it be too much to have GW advance the 40k timeline by one year for each real-life year that passes?

One could perceive interesting background articles in every other issue of WD, detailing 'news from the front' from various battlezones/wars/incidents going on in the galaxy. This would provide an extra basis for the worldwide campaigns, provide extra depth and player-involvement in the game, and improve the quality of WD as a whole.

Or would 1 year-per-year advancement be too slow? Is it practical?

Baltar
15-01-2008, 22:50
Or would 1 year-per-year advancement be too slow? Is it practical?

Thats the way it started out. The first date in the 40k Universe was 40,988 iirc, and it advanced one year every year until 40,999

Baltar
15-01-2008, 22:56
Personally I think that the Imperium would crack apart under its own weight, if given another thousand years or so.

It has survived WAY too long for that.


Already there are autonomous regions which the Imperium fails to properly control,

The Imperium doesn't depend on that control - the Imperium is better thought of as all of human space, not some centralized government.


it can't win major wars on its home ground in a timely manner (Armageddon, Cadia) .

The very fact that it can win so many wars at once is amazing in and of itself - Armageddon and Cadia basically represent the vast majority of the forces of Chaos, and the largest Ork waaagh in milennia, and the Imperium stopped them both SIMULTANEOUSLY, while also carrying on the Sabbat World and other gigantic crusades, fighting thousands of other petty conflicts, dealing with Nid incursions, etc etc etc That is way way way in excess of the power of any other faction.


it can't stop a very minor power like the Tau from relentlessly advancing into Imperial space

More like it hardly notices. The Tau cowardly take advantage of weak moments for the Imperium, and that is when they attack. The Imperium can't really be bothered to station a bunch of forces at the outer edge of Tau space.


The Imperium is falling back in most sectors, holding in the line in a few...

Not really. The Imperium loses some planets, like say for example the Sabbat Worlds. 100 or so years later, and unstoppable Imperial Crusade comes back and takes them. The Imperium is too huge and vast to respond quickly.

When you say the "Imperium is falling back in most sectors" you are missing the point.

Most sectors AREN'T EVEN ENGAGED. The wars are happening at the Fringes. On Terra, and indeed on the vast vast majority of human worlds, society goes on as it has for hundreds of centuries, peaceful and boring. The Imperium is just so freaking huge that you can hardly hurt it at all.


At some point the Imperium will simply crack apart into autonomous regions, dozens, even hundreds of small empires, some worshipping the Emperor, some the great Omnissiah, some simply following their local strongman...

That hasn't happened in 10,000 years, it won't happen now. Adversity tends to create political cohesion to deal with crises.


Perhaps then, with the ability to innovate and compromise restored to Humanity, the people of the 41st millenium will stand a chance of survival...

Dealing with Chaos or the Aliens would mean that humanity would be screwed. The strength of the Imperium is its ruthlessness and uncompromising nature. Without the power of the Imperium, humanity would be extinct.

Dio´Ra
15-01-2008, 23:42
let them just do a 14th black crusade for next summer 40k campaign....and give him the upperhand by bringing the deamon primarchs to have some fun :D

i would love if chaos would be come more of a threat....it should have a foothold ....how about turning cadia to a deamon world :p

i would worship GW even more for doing something of epic scale to the current fluff! do something evil! return of the necron might, the biggest tyranid fleet so far etc etc.....just something evil, drastic and of a galacric scale!

for my part bring even back the squats or the demiurg or some xenos from the halo stars! i think the whole 40k community has a plea for advancement?

Chaos and Evil
15-01-2008, 23:47
Dealing with Chaos or the Aliens would mean that humanity would be screwed.

Chaos, yes. Aliens? Not all aliens are evil... it's just that it's simpler for the Imperium to assume they are all evil...


The strength of the Imperium is its ruthlessness and uncompromising nature.

Quite true.


Without the power of the Imperium, humanity would be extinct.

Hey, I didn't say that the structure of the Imperium wasn't one of humanity's best chances for survival... I just said that the Imperium is doomed to fracture, sooner rather than later.

Baltar
15-01-2008, 23:50
Chaos, yes. Aliens? Not all aliens are evil... it's just that it's simpler for the Imperium to assume they are all evil...

All the Xenos want humans dead. Some aliens view Humans as scum. Some view them as little more than animals. Nobody wants to help or ally with them (except the Tau, but the Tau are inconsequential on a large scale.



Hey, I didn't say that the structure of the Imperium wasn't one of humanity's best chances for survival... I just said that the Imperium is doomed to fracture, sooner rather than later.

Its not going to fracture because it is so decentralized. It essentially IS fractured...at any given time probably at least 5% of the worlds of the Imperium are only vaguely aware that the Imperium even exists.

The Imperium doesn't depend on cohesion...most of its member worlds hardly participate in the Imperium at all. They pay their taxes and give up men and women to be soldiers. Other than that, the Imperium doesn't intrude in governmental life.

Commander Dante
15-01-2008, 23:52
I think the C'tan would eventualy turn on each other

Dio´Ra
15-01-2008, 23:55
I think the C'tan would eventualy turn on each other

they did once so it makes perfect sense theyll do it again :rolleyes:

i think only the tyranids are save from traitors....just cant imagine tyranid fighting tyranid....

MadDogMike
16-01-2008, 04:07
As far as the 13th Black Crusade goes, I like the idea of the Imperium not completely crumpling (maybe even keeping Cadia) but the "gate" being smashed so badly Chaos can leak through much more often. Not so much Abaddon leading a giant fleet straight to Terra but instead of holding at Cadia the Imperium is trying desperately to hold in a wide radius further back. Or maybe have Chaos itself be the undermining of the 13th Black Crusade, and Abaddon's push for Terra isn't stopped/slowed by the Imperium but by many of the Chaos lords under him saying "OK, it was fun, see ya!" and racing off to do their own thing throughout the Imperial sectors they can now reach.

Basically I think it's possible to make the 13th Black Crusade a victory for Chaos without overthrowing the entire Imperium if you assume the victory was in forcing a route through the standing Imperial defenses but Abaddon hasn't (yet) converted that victory into the complete conquest of all who oppose him. Besides, fluff being written so that Chaos has an easier time leaving the Eye gives lots of excuses for further battles, which should be the goal of all 40K fluff :D.

Johnnyfrej
16-01-2008, 04:28
Perhaps then, with the ability to innovate and compromise restored to Humanity, the people of the 41st millenium will stand a chance of survival...

Heresy! What warp-beast or foul xeno influence has swayed you off the Imperial path to salvation? It was the Tau wasn't it?! Damn grey-skins! Them and all their nonsense talk of "peace" and "unity." Disgusting!

Iracundus
16-01-2008, 04:35
Basically I think it's possible to make the 13th Black Crusade a victory for Chaos without overthrowing the entire Imperium if you assume the victory was in forcing a route through the standing Imperial defenses but Abaddon hasn't (yet) converted that victory into the complete conquest of all who oppose him. Besides, fluff being written so that Chaos has an easier time leaving the Eye gives lots of excuses for further battles, which should be the goal of all 40K fluff :D.

You do know right that the 13th Black Crusade Eye of Terror worldwide campaign was officially a Chaos/Disorder victory? It was never said that a total Chaos victory would mean Abaddon setting foot on Terra. The entire campaign was about the breakout from the Gate, and Abaddon has somewhat succeeded.

Kage2020
16-01-2008, 12:35
...Because there is only one route out of the Eye of Terror? :eyebrows:

Kage

Baltar
16-01-2008, 12:38
...Because there is only one route out of the Eye of Terror? :eyebrows:

Kage

Only one route out that can support a large enough fleet to be relevant and even somewhat safe.

Lets not forget too, that Cadia still hasn't fallen. And, as I said before, the Cadian Shock Troopers have the most powerful protection of all: Sales and Profit Protection.

Kage2020
16-01-2008, 12:40
Erm, rally point?

Kage

Lord Damocles
16-01-2008, 16:35
The map in the front of the Apoc book shows Cadia as a 'stalemate', suggesting that the Imperium has successfully counter-attacked to a point. This would actually make sense, since at the end of the EoT campaign the Imperial Navy was in general control of space over Cadia.

Then again that same map suggests that Mundus Planus is the White Scars homeworld so perhaps its not the most accurate source.:eyebrows:

Commander Dante
16-01-2008, 16:50
The map in the front of the Apoc book shows Cadia as a 'stalemate', suggesting that the Imperium has successfully counter-attacked to a point. This would actually make sense, since at the end of the EoT campaign the Imperial Navy was in general control of space over Cadia.

Then again that same map suggests that Mundus Planus is the White Scars homeworld so perhaps its not the most accurate source.:eyebrows:

Mudus Planus is the White Scars Homeworld...what is the problem?

Lord Damocles
16-01-2008, 17:44
Mudus Planus is the White Scars Homeworld...what is the problem?

All is now clear! For some reason Imperial cartographers also call it Chogoris.

I'll never question a GW produced map again. Honest.:angel:

DrDoom
17-01-2008, 16:34
Without the power of the Imperium, humanity would be extinct.

Not hardly. There is a faction that would welcome humanity with open arms.

Chaos.

Humanity would be lifted up, free to finally express themselves and throw off the dogmatic shackles of the Imperium.

Really Chaos is humanity's way forward. The death of the Imperium would actually help tings a great deal.

Baltar
17-01-2008, 19:03
Not hardly. There is a faction that would welcome humanity with open arms.

Chaos.

Humanity would be lifted up, free to finally express themselves and throw off the dogmatic shackles of the Imperium.

Really Chaos is humanity's way forward. The death of the Imperium would actually help tings a great deal.

:: places call to the Ordo Hereticus::

Chaplain of Chaos
17-01-2008, 19:33
Yeah the Imperium won't fall anytime soon, and if it weren't for the constant warfare it's subjected to at all sides it could militarily crush any single force currently active in the galaxy. I'd like to see Cadia retaken, but hordes of rogue Chaos forces scattering far and wide.

(remember I said currently active, so don't count Necrons and Tyranids as a fully active and mobilized force.)

legio mortis
17-01-2008, 20:18
Remember, nobody knows how many Tyranids there actually are. For all we know, these guys could be the precursor to an even bigger hive fleet, or they could all be dead.

Simon Sez
17-01-2008, 20:38
One piece of progression I would like to see is the result of kryptmans Ork/Tyranid conflict, it would make a killer campaign

Orks vs 'Nids. Whoever wins, the galaxy loses.

Worldwide APOC megabattle summer campaign between Ork and Tyranids. the results would introduce another element to the fluff; 13th crusade, armageddon, third sphere expansion, Necron awakening, Octavian uber (insert campaign winner here)

Honestly though, I do not mind GW not giving us a year by year rundown f whats happening, what I'd like to see is more opputunity to go forwards and backwards into whatever period interests you most, even if it means going beyond the 40th millennium

Famder
18-01-2008, 10:10
There is some slow, but sure advancement with the Ork/Tyranid conflict. In the new ork codex they hint at the fact that orks in the area of Ultrama have enough forces to begin pushing into Imperial space and win. Same with Tyranids. So apparently it has reached such a stalemate that both sides are thriving enough to deviate and fight other foes while still fighting each other.

Critias
18-01-2008, 10:28
I just wish time would advance, period. Give us ten years (in game) before the "next big worldwide conflict" thing springs on us. It's getting a little silly for so many signature armies and special characters to be fighting in so many places all at once.

And it seems to me like while transitioning to a new edition would be the perfect time to do that. Jump things forward a little, and give us a little history lesson in the core rulebook to let us know how things went for the last couple of years (tying up a few loose ends).

FrankManic
18-01-2008, 21:44
Well, ow I see's it is dat de'erll be a lot a krumpin going on, so no matter wot appen, dey Orks win!

Baltar
18-01-2008, 21:46
I just wish time would advance, period. Give us ten years (in game) before the "next big worldwide conflict" thing springs on us. It's getting a little silly for so many signature armies and special characters to be fighting in so many places all at once.


Is it really though? In a galaxy of hundreds of billions of stars we have, at most, 10 defining conflicts and maybe 35 special characters worthy of note?

Critias
19-01-2008, 05:34
Right, but the problem is all 35 of them are at all 10 conflicts at the same time. :P