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View Full Version : line of sight AND flyers stems which are too high?!



nikolalia
15-01-2008, 19:37
Have made a unit of terradons with some brass rods for the flight stems. They are a good 4/5" of the base and quite high. They stick above most of my scenary like hills and huts/houses.:rolleyes:

How would everyone play this? am asking because only those marked "Large Target" can be picked out if some infantry in front of them. However flyers are not marked "Large Target" but can be seen easily as they tower over everything else because of their unusually lengthy stems.

Would people be abstract and say that its the bases that should be targetted OR if they can be seen they can be shot at.

What do people think. Can't quite work it out...:confused:

My thought is that if a infantry (not large target) is infront of the flyers, then the flyers cannot be targetted unless they on a hill etc.;)

Similarly, if they behind a house that would normally block infantry, then it would block LoS to the flyers even though they can be seen.

What do people think?

many thanks in advance...:)

Nik

T10
15-01-2008, 19:43
At the basic level all models block line of sight to each other, and skirmishers (e.g. a unit of flyers) block line of sight "through" the unit. Large Targets and models on hills or in buildings above ground floor are some of the exceptions to this.

Rules-wise you neither gain a benefit or are in any way disadvantaged by mounting your models on taller sor shorter stems.

-T10

niox
15-01-2008, 19:44
Everything "lands" when itīs movement is done. Unless itīs a large target you can only
charge, shoot, cast spells on it etc, if you can see the models base. The same goes for the unit itself when it is itīs turn to charge/shoot. Everything blocks line of sight to/from it as it was any other normal unit.

nikolalia
15-01-2008, 21:30
so if the flyers, on the long stems, are behind a house and are way above it, they cannot be targetted by shooters? normal infantry (non large target)models would be hidden as would my terradons if they had the normal small stems on but because mine are on long ones, they could be seen...

so we are saying it doesn't matter, a little abstraction is needed when look at my flyers... they are just like a normal unit even though they can actually be seen?:confused:

galenus
15-01-2008, 21:51
Flyers only fly when they move. At any other moment they are on the ground as they land when they stop or get into combat. The stem has nothing to do with their visibility. In fact many Flyer models don't even have them such as Chaos Furies or Daemon Princes.

ZomboCom
15-01-2008, 21:55
Basically, only use the bases for line of sight.

Gorbad Ironclaw
15-01-2008, 21:55
How would everyone play this? am asking because only those marked "Large Target" can be picked out if some infantry in front of them. However flyers are not marked "Large Target" but can be seen easily as they tower over everything else because of their unusually lengthy stems.



The actual model is irrelevant for line of sight and targeting.

There are 3 sizes in Warhammer. Small(those with a special rule saying so, normal(everything without a special rule) and Large(those with the Large Target Special rule).

A model block line of sight to anything of it's same size and smaller, no matter the individual size of the models.

So a snotling base would block line of sight to a unit of trolls, or a unit of boar boyz for instance.

nikolalia
15-01-2008, 21:59
So just use the base to determine LoS. Many thanks...

ffarsight
16-01-2008, 10:39
HI, if i have a Bolt T. on a hill and there is a flying unit behind a dragon, but its all blocked by the dragon, can i see them because iīm on a hill, and be able to shoot them???

Thanks

grhino
16-01-2008, 12:11
Probably not.... that dragon would block your line of sight. But if the hill is too high you might be able to see him (say, a level 2 hill). This is why you should always discuss the characteristics of the terrain before a battle!

And nikolalia: please take a look at the rules, because they are obvious on this matter. Would be rediculous if the model itself had such an impact on line of sight. I'd model all my archers on something high so that they can see everything over houses, troops and castle walls while not even on the ramparts.... and claim heavy cover while i'm at it... that'd make Warhammer a really stupid game. Try balancing rules and common sense, and you will be able to get the rules right on most occasions.

T10
16-01-2008, 12:14
Whether the models behind the Large Target model are Flyers or not is of no consequence.

-T10

ffarsight
16-01-2008, 13:14
But doesnīt the hill let you see over all models?
I hope not, because a Large target should cover the ones behind, in my opinion. Even if the opponent is is a hill.

T10
16-01-2008, 15:54
Terrain effects on line of sight is mostly up to the players to decide since terrain pieces can vary greatly.

My house rule is that woods, buildings and hills block line of sight from ground-to-ground and from hill-to-ground. More complex issues are determined on a case-by-case basis with those premises in mind. Large Target models are treated the same as any other model in this respect: A model behind a Large Target can be seen from a hill or the upper storeys of a building.

-T10

niox
16-01-2008, 21:08
A good idea is to talk with your opponent before the game about how each terrain piece
affects movement and line of sight. Is it difficult terrain, impassible, etc...
Can save alot of time later in the game and avoid bad situations with long harsh arguments.

Jonke
16-01-2008, 21:13
The rules for hills and large targets does not interact in any way, so a unit behind a large target can be seen by a unit on a hill. Of course you can agree otherwisee with your opponent.