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Heretic12
16-01-2008, 19:25
Well I have been interested in starting one of these Campain based, RPGish, Skirmish games for quite some time, particularly GM as Ive had "Da Uvver Book" for near 5 years and only just got the free rulez book of GWs site. Ive got 2 larger clubs within traveling Distance, GMI is 20 miles away, GW Ontario is 10. Ive yet to call around, though I supose I should, so I have no clue if either are running ongoing Campains that I could hop in. Both are in SoCal, USA and Im up in Rancho Cucamonga.

Now real quick, I will say I would love to start Gorkamorka from initial thought, if only because I have all three rulebooks already. I was an ork since I got into the GW hobby and Ill be an Ork long after I get out. Though still I would like to ask around none the less.

1) What are the ups and downs from all of three games?

2) Hows the Balance in all three?

3) Hows the gang progression in all three?

4) Whats your game of choice, do you play multiple?

5) How often do you get in games?

6) With the (Im assuming) often conversions you need, is it ever a hassle to have to quit playing for the day if you dont got the bitz on you at that moment? Games dont seem to take long from what Ive read/estimated so it would kinda suck to drive down to a place get in a 20 minute game, not have the bit for your serjury and have to call it quits cause of it.

Thanks in advance for any help and advice you can send my way.

P.S. Ive called both gaming clubs, While there is nothing solid atm, both have word and talk of starting a league for at least Mordheim. Though both said I can attempt to start up any

Bloodknight
16-01-2008, 19:45
I can only really comment on GoMo, although I've played Necromunda, too (the rules are basically the same), as well as a few games of Mordheim.

1. Ups: It has Orks, vehicles and a lot of humour.
Downs: the rules are sometimes a bit ambiguous, but then it is a game for fun, not tourney play and people usually play it like that. The other factions' figures are quite hard to come by, especially Muties and Rebel Grot vehicles.

2) It's good. Intentionally CC-focused, however. Shooting is quite weak. Gangs of the same points cost are usually quite equal regardless of faction. Underdog bonuses are very good, so weaker gangs get a chance, too.

3) Quick. You get quite a lot of XP per game, especially with an underdog gang. The procedures are well explained and not hard to use.

4) GoMo. The vehicles alone do the trick, drive by shooting and boarding actions are fun. Add to that the hilarious doc tables etc. I know which one I prefer.

6) People usually would not demand converting between two games on the same day. That would be just stupid. GoMo games take about 45 minutes to an hour if both players know the rules.

Cirrus the Blue
16-01-2008, 20:07
For starters, I'll give you word for word what it states in the Doc's Serjery, just to give you an idea that this is not a mandatory solution to fixin' up your boyz in GorkaMorka. ;) "Think twice before sending warriors to the Doc because you will have to do some converting and major surgery of your own." The injuries sustained in GorkaMorka aren't horrendously bad. They keep your WS up which is a plus and only really hinder Toughness, Movement, BS (this one being the worse out of the 4 big ones I'd say), and Strength if they happen which honestly if I had to, I'd be able to deal with.

As for my personal favorite, GorkaMorka hands down as this was the turning point for the Orks in all aspects, most importantly their background/history/and society making them all out to be reminiscant of Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome which was a brilliant sci-fi I always thought and one of my favorite movies. At least those are my thoughts on the subject. Also the fact that you get to drive around in vehicles with the greatest vehicle rules GW has ever produced! I hear Dark Future had some amazing vehicle rules these were based closely off of, but I never actually got a chance to have a game of that one.

Compared to Necromunda and Mordheim, GorkaMorka has a cap on all mobs at 400 gang rating, meaning that your mob never becomes an invincible force that's impossible to defeat at the best of times and this happened more often than not with Necromunda and Mordheim (Mordheim especially with the possible -1 Armor save. Yes. A -1 Armor save.). Also, Necromunda with overwatching Lascannons got kinda lame and that was only one of it's downfalls. Which brings me to the point of falling damage was a bit of a pain in the ass, too. haha Seriously though, some of the towers got really high and it was inevitable that your boys take upwards of Strength 10 hits on the way down without any sort of Grav Shute which were rare equipment at best. There's a bunch of other points, but the main one is that if your mob or gang or warband were to join a campaign later on in either Necromunda or Mordheim, you'd get royally messed up because they'd be probably somewhere at 10000000 rating above your own mob with a hundred guys and it just wouldn't be fun in the slightest! That's a true story! :D

With GorkaMorka, this can't possibly happen in such a way seeing as you must disband at 400 so that things don't get wildly out of control, thus balancing out the mobs at least enough to make for a good game.

Also some of the stuff from Necromunda was left out such as the Parry rule from ALLLLLL sword based weapons, plus being able to grab it in a skill. GorkaMorka moved this to two items. A shield which doesn't do damage, and the Digga Shaman's Findin' Rod which is a great weapon, but there's only one of 'em and it's already a two handed sort of deal anyway. The guns are never amazingly well crafted, so your boys could easily avoid shots due to the opponent's jamming or running out of ammunition much faster than in Necromunda with all their shiny cyberpunk stuff.

Regarding Mordheim as well, I wasn't so much of a fan of that system of post battle considering the income generation was a bit screwy and to get really good stuff happening to your mob, you quite literally had to roll Yhatzee, and not only that, you had to roll SPECIFIC Yhatzee to find some stuff which was sorta lame. Not only THAT, but the Dwarf warbands were the only ones who could alter this in that they could feasably do this about a quarter of the time, leaving everyone else in the dust which was kind of unfair. Also the rare trade in Mordheim compared to Necromunda wasn't very well done in the fact that some stuff actually WAS impossible to find unless you had modifiers in your favor from how the game went or something, but in Necromunda, nothing was ever IMPOSSIBLE to find.

Also in Mordheim, you had 6 Heroes in your warband and about a thousand Henchmen that you needed to keep track of, but in a much more different kind of way with their own skill charts, equipment choices, etc and got kind of confusing, not to mention a pain in the ass for painting so many extra guys!

Necromunda had a good rare trade chart, but sadly GorkaMorka didn't. GorkaMorka kept mostly to simplicity regarding a lot of that and focused on the vehicle rules and getting your gunz, trukks, and boyz upgraded at either the Mekboy'z Werkshop, or the Doc's Serjery. You might've noticed I did up a file a buddy of mine posted up in a PDF with a rare trade chart, so this adds a whole other element to the game in that case, so if you decide to do GorkaMorka, feel free to use it! I'm gonna post up Version 1.1 this weekend though seeing as I've added a few things since then. :p

What it all boils down to is what are my choices? First place by a wide margin, somewhat on personal taste for the flavor and setting of the game and the rest on the replayability and fun factor is GorkaMorka. Second is Necromunda as it was rather close and had a good post battle sequence with very well done gameplay and also a great setting. Mordheim must inevitably come in last place because it was very different in the way the post battle sequence played out giving the 'right' warbands the upper hand and on some levels of personal experience of playing more games of simply showing up and running off the board in the first turn, everyone jumping up 5 or 6 levels and effectively 'playing the post battle' sequence was just a bit lame I felt. It's a very well done game all the same, don't get me wrong, but it's just not my personal choice. Hope this helps with your decision!

OH!! One last and CRUCIAL point. If you decided to go with Necromunda, do NOT NOT NOT go for the new book! It sucks in comparison to the original one first and foremost of all that it left out the whole second book of the original version which bent my brain and you can find the thick hardcover which includes both books required on ebay for like 70 bucks which is 10 more than the new one at any retail shop. Key point in that - they took out the 'Set on Fire' rule in the revamp. GorkaMorka still uses this rule, but Necromunda lost a LOT of appeal for me after they cut that little tidbit out and wasn't able to use the 'old rules' at my local GW when they were playing a campaign of it. Just a lot of little things in the new Necromunda book were a pissoff, so if you can, try to find the old hardcover or the two soft cover books. :)

- Cirrus

carlisimo
17-01-2008, 06:12
Necromunda can be tough to get into because you need to build a lot of terrain for it to work well. Shooting is very powerful in that game, so if you skimp on terrain, everyone will die.

Gorkamorka toned down shooting a lot (guns are poorly built, and orks are T4 and don't get pinned). You would want to build a fort though. And of course the vehicles. Another great thing about Gorkamorka is that there's just more humor in it... orks will be orks...

commandergabriel
24-01-2008, 18:33
Personally, I like all 3 systems... Gorka being my favorite... My gaming group now is all switching to Orks in 40K so Gorka is making a comeback. The only problem I have with Gorka is that it does get stale after awhile. Orks are Orks are Orks; but afterall, Orks are Orks are Orks...

Last time we played gorka was 1 year ago; we played it for 4 months religiously, then put it aside before we got disgusted with it... Ahhh! Time to revitalize it.

Justice And Rule
28-01-2008, 18:49
I think each has their own charm to them.

Mordheim:

Mordheim is probably the best-balanced system of them all.

Firstly, it has the best hand-to-hand combat system of them all, taking the Warhammer route that 40K eventually went on to adopt. It made initiative much more immediately important to a game, as every time one entered hand-to-hand the big "I" would eventually come into play. Also, it's cool to see guys nail each other at the same time, something I hated not seeing in the other games.

Secondly, it is the easiest book-keeping one there is. Yes, there is a different chart for henchmen, but you have to juggle 5 charts different types of boyz and gangers anyways. Along with the fact that 1) Henchmen gain experience collectively, 2) They only rarely gain more than 1 box in any given game, and 3) The box system makes it so I no longer have to look in the book to see that I have gained a level, I'm all about that sort of approach.

Mordheim also has a great amount of different gangs without stretching the setting too much. Each gang (even the half dozen different human ones) has their own unique flavor and plays differently, not to mention the multiple non-human gangs there are.

This goes into the after-battle sequence, too, which is the most robust of the bunch. I love the "Doubles, Triples, etc" reward system. You can't expect it every game, but it throws some variety into what is normally a cut and dry sequence, and can result in some interesting finds. And maybe I'm the only one, but I liked the Mordheim Market more than the Necromunda one. Even though I didn't always get something, it restricted gangs/warbands from getting a ton of interesting stuff quickly. It seemed way too common for our Gangs to have a dozen different weird equipment pieces in only a few battles. Mordheim made you work (or get REALLY LUCKY) at finding those neat pieces of equipment you wanted; when I got that Ithilmar Armor, it was an achievement. Also, I liked that it allowed me to direct my searching; I always thought it would be frustrating as a Gang-Leader for someone to come up to me and say "Look, I didn't find the Power Weapon you needed so badly, but I did find you Mung Vase!" If I want a Power Weapon, I'll waste the time trying to get the power weapon. Finally, the "Hired Swords" are the best of the three games, giving a wide variety of mercenaries with greatly-varying abilities.0

The worst part about Mordheim? Well, it's obviously a hand-to-hand game first and a shooting game second. This can be said of most games, but it's pretty obvious here. Also, you need a lot of terrain to make the place look properly city-like (Along with the need to be able to go into the buildings), something not really necessary (Gorkamorka) or less obvious (Necromunda). And if you're into really connecting with your guys, the inclusion of a 'henchmen' designation isn't going to be well for you. The setting for me was always just 'okay', but they've come out with multiple setting for different places, which keeps things alive.

Overall, it's the most stream-lined of any of the systems, and probably the best when you just look at the rules. That's to be expected, though, as it's the newest game of them all and includes a lot of the things they've learned over the years. I find the other settings more interesting, but this one still has its own charm.

Necromunda

Necromunda is the game for shooting-oriented players, and people who wants varieties in their weapons. It also has the best setting of them all.

First off, let's talk about weapon options. Just about anything you've seen in 40K is possible. Lascannon? Hell yes, man. How about a Heavy Plasma Gun? Sign up right here! The amount of weapons and different weapon effects is stunning, and for a 40K fan, you'll see a lot of things that were lost when 2nd Edition went out of style (Hallucinogenic Grenades, how I miss you). While I've already expressed my irritation about the Rare Trades Chart, the stuff on there gives a welcome amount of interesting things that you might see in a technopunk/industrialpunk world like this one.

The amount of gangs is perfectly fine, along with the interesting differences between regular mobs and "Outlaw" mobs. It's fun to watch a gang go "Outlaw" and see how things go from "Getting cash" to "Getting food" really quickly.

People complain about the terrain, but I never found a problem in modeling the gantries and such. Building burnt-out buildings and stuff like that for Mordheim, which really requires an interior to things, is something else entirely. The setting and the idea itself is great, along with controlling multiple territories: We used to set up a hex map and show where our territories were, along with other places of interest. It made the campaign into a mini-map campaign, which was endlessly fun. This is also probably the best setting for a GM if you want an overall direction to your campaign, as House Politics, Aliens, and many other different things can be thrown in to make it interesting.

What's wrong? Well, some of the weapons I named can be a bit overpowering (Lascannon Sniping can get real irritating after a while). Sadly, they have yet to officially upgrade the hand-to-hand system to the current style of things. And, as I mentioned in the Mordheim, things can get out of hand quickly with the "I always get something" Rare Trades Chart. There's almost too much stuff in the game, which makes games longer.

So if you like the setting and a more range-based game, this is the game for you.

Gorkamorka

Simplicity is a virtue. Gorkamorka has it in the extreme.

While Mordheim might have the most streamlined rules, Gorkamorka is probably the most streamlined setting of them all. The story is fairly simple, there isn't much variety in weapons, and there are 2 to 5 (Depending on whether or not you use Digganob) different types of mobs. If you are looking for institutionalized individuality, it isn't here.

What is here, however, is two aspects that are sorely lacking in the above two sets: Customization and Humor. The ability to take a weapon and get something that will be completely unique to them is something you don't normally see. Trukks can be customized endlessly, as can weapons and even the Orks themselves. Sure, there is some... well, a lot of risk involved, but the game plays into that: You're Kannon only fires 6", but it's Strength 5 and has two sustained fire dice!

I had to mention humor as one of my main reasons as well, because the first two games feel so damn serious all the time. Gorkamorka took us away from the Dark Future where there is only war and said "Hey, let's just make a game about Orks driving trukks and shooting each other". There is little seriousness and a lot of humor. I think the seriousness of the first two games carries a bit into how one plays, and I think that it's equally true with Gorkamorka's humor: I'm a lot more likely to be laughing and doing stupid things with my Orks rather than my Reiklanders.

And you can't understate how much vehicles can change a game. Having Trukks, Trakks, and Bikes makes things so much fun, even in a "Blew myself up in a head-on collision!" sort of way.

The bad part? It's too simple to a fault. You can customize, but a few more weapons and a lot more cool, Orky things (Especially Gubbins and Surgery Results) would be nice. No rare trades, no variety in the post-game sequence (Mine, Customize, Fight, Mine, Customize, Fight), and still using an antiquated hand-to-hand system are all strikes against it.

But for me, it's not hard to get past the game. It's simplistic enough that it isn't hard to add things in without upsetting the rules. And just the fun, wacky-happy atmosphere is enough for me to recommend this for people who want less "I need to take care of my warband" and more "LET'S GO GET SCRAP!"

fattdex
29-01-2008, 06:40
Orky things (Especially Gubbins and Surgery Results) would be nice. No rare trades,

Members of this forum have taken care of these issues good and proper :)