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Dasqueek-Master Assassin
16-01-2008, 21:42
Ok, so Im looking at creating a SM chapter that mostlyworks hand in hand with the other factions of the Imperium. I.E. Guard, sisters, grey knights, deathwatch, Witch hunters (both puritanical and radical), and deamon hunters (both puritanical and radical).
I was thinking of something like a chapter founded almost completly on faith in the emperor or something like that. Its just a rough idea, but its a starting point so its ok.
The chapter was made to add tactical support to everything from the holiest grey knights and pious sisters to the more radical members of the =][=
their faith keeps them pure, but some might sometimes waiver a bit in their faith.

So I send out a call to anyone who might like to help me on this endevor.
I have some ideas, but I would like to hear yours to.
I need stuff like;
-chapter name
-fluff/ background
-iconagraphy
-unique traits
-tactical out look
etc...
Help me create this chapter, lets make it totally bad A.

Baltar
16-01-2008, 21:46
Go to the Lexicanum site, and look through the list of Space Marines chapters. Most of them are blank templates with only colors and a name.

Dasqueek-Master Assassin
16-01-2008, 23:31
I looked at those, but none really caught my eye.
but I did get some ideas...
how about this:
Brothers Luce (roughly translated by my roomates who took latin three years ago as brothers, english of course, of light) Or all in latin, Frates Luce.

maybe an all white, or gold, something bright, color scheme. With the Iconography of lamps and candles everywhere.
Something like bringing to light of the emperor to the dark reaches of the galaxy.

Its a starting place, and I kinda like it. Opinions/comments/help?

ThorOdensson
16-01-2008, 23:45
From what your describing you want Ultramarines, that are heavily religious.

Name: Divine Knights
Iconography: Sword through a Book or Book in front of a sword etc.
Background: 2nd Founding Chapter - Formed out of the Members of the Ultramarines Legion that had taken up the faith in the Emperor as God. Much like the Black Templars are to the Imperial Fists i.e. the Religious Fanatics from the Legion placed in a single Chapter.

Traits: I'd go with standard codex - use Honour Guards
Tactical Outlook: Rigidly Codex (except for Honor Guards - althoguh they may be part of the codex anyway)

Commander Dante
16-01-2008, 23:53
You could use some of the robed Dark Angel models...white robes and gold armor? or maybe White Armor and Robe with Gold Trim? You could use Grey Knight terminator as a captain or something too.... Name could be Sons of Lucifer? (Lucifer means bringer of light)

Other names:
Light Bringers
Emperor's Castellans
Light Knights
Knights of Light
White Knights
Knights of Viligance

Dasqueek-Master Assassin
17-01-2008, 04:08
do you think,the light thing makes them seem to pure?
cause they are going to have to politically mesh with puritans like the grey knights, as well as radicals.
so I dont want them to seem like they would be to uppity to deal closely with radicals

Commander Dante
17-01-2008, 04:54
No i dont think so....

Dasqueek-Master Assassin
17-01-2008, 05:35
ok, what do ya'll think of the other info?
-chapter colors- yellow/gold/white (havent really decided yet)
-lamp/candle iconography. maybe each marine is given one upon his inclusion to the chapter to always brighten his path from the darkness, with the liht of the emperor
- maybe like you suggested ThorOdensson, a 2nd founding chapter, of the the ultra marines.
but im kind of leaning towads something else maybe more like the Relictors, for purely background info.
-combat doctrines- basically regular marines, but often help out the Ordos with special missions. maybe more veterans as a result, with fewer young tactical marines that couldnt make it through the training.
- various connections to high ups in all orders in the Imperium, not particullarily powerful, but very politically influential

GalenArtorius
17-01-2008, 09:01
do you think,the light thing makes them seem to pure?

Remember that those that stand facing the light will have long shadows behind them.

Where Grey Knights walk the line between light and dark readily, but in secret, perhaps your Chapter are overly eager to show their purity with white robes, etc to hide their readiness to deal with more radical inquisitors.

I like the idea of combining white with yellow (perhaps mostly white armour with yellow trim on kneepads, gauntlets, shoulders, etc). With white and yellow being the heraldic substitutes for silver and gold, your HQ could have metallic gold trim to stand out from the regular troops. Iconography could include lamps (but take care to not go to close to the Black Templars), or maybe silhouetted skulls? (just an idea).

If you haven’t done so already, check out the Bolter and Chainsword forums for help on making DIY chapters.

Brother-Captain De Angele
17-01-2008, 09:24
base your paint job on the angels of vengence but call them something different like the the emperors fists or something and model them with robes, with lots of use of plasma weaponry and led by some sort of grand chaplain and use like skull helmets from the chaos space marines box

Dasqueek-Master Assassin
17-01-2008, 15:58
Remember that those that stand facing the light will have long shadows behind them.
.
Oh MY GOD!!! THAT'S PERFECT!!! I love it
[QUOTE=GalenArtorius;2268397]
I like the idea of combining white with yellow (perhaps mostly white armour with yellow trim on kneepads, gauntlets, shoulders, etc). With white and yellow being the heraldic substitutes for silver and gold, your HQ could have metallic gold trim to stand out from the regular troops. Iconography could include lamps (but take care to not go to close to the Black Templars), or maybe silhouetted skulls? (just an idea).QUOTE]

I like the white with yellow trim idea. Althought I dont want them to look to much like eggs lol.
What do you think about using a combination of black templar and dark angels robes?
------------------------
Here is what i have come up with so far. I just had a moment of insperation, and i went with it. Let me know if you like it or not, as well as if you see any inconsitincies or problems.
ok here it is:


Brothers Luce
Frates luce- brothers of light

• 2nd founding The Age of Apostasy (M36)
• Formed in response to the loss of the word bearers, but built from the gene seed of Roboute Guilliman.
• Founded on a planet without light for most of each year. From where the primarch of their founding chapter,_____, went to find the true meaning of piety through X years of darkness as a show of faith to his Emperor god.
• Revere light as a gift from the emperor
• Eyes have been augmented to receive light as well as darkness
• Training consists of three phases each conducted by one of the chapters many chaplains:
o Phase 1)Training in complete darkness
o Phase 2)eye augmentation, followed by training
o Phase 3)given ceremonial lamp to signify completion of training

• Ceremonial candles, lamps, and braziers to ‘bring the light of the emperor to those that have lost it’
• Chaplains’ have a high strength in the chapter and their liturgies are even more fanatical and inspiring than normal. They speak of the guiding light of the emperor and of how they must bring it to the whole galaxy. As a part of a Chaplin’s initiation to his office, he is blinded, but is gifted by his faith in the emperor to ‘see’ (much like The Daredevil) especially to see taint or corruption in those of the Imperium.
• Many veterans as recruits are hard to come by, but are incredible night fighters and use extreme ambush/ night fighting tactics to combat the enemy
• Have been known to be incredibly zealous, sometimes to the point of fanaticism to spread the word of ‘light of the emperor’
• Upon the announcement of a mission, chaplains go into a solitary area, sometimes for days on end. The room is completely devoid of anything that is to be considered a distraction, save a single lamp. Upon entering, he enters into a meditative state where it is said he is blessed with ‘visions’ of the mission to come. Upon finishing his visions, he leaves his confinement to re-unite with both his brothers and his allies to discuss his vision and tell them of the battle to come. In this was, battle plans are formed, units are organized, and tactics discussed. And although they are sometimes disagreed with by their allies, they are always respected. Even by the most influential leaders, for the Brothers Luce have an impeccable success rate on their missions, and are known throughout the Imperium for their dedication to victory.
• Their battle plans are usually enacted at night to make use of the orders impeccable night fighting abilities.
Are constantly used as allies by all manner of Inquisitor (Ordo Hereticus, Ordo Malleus both puritanical and radical) for their zeal to bring their guiding light to every corner of the galaxy. No matter the means. They are often also used by the Grey Knights, and the Adepta Sororitas (Sisters of Battle), and the Ordeo Xenos (The Deathwatch). And have been known to bring such allies along as support, on many of their expeditions.

“ Those that face the light, still have a shadow behind them”

• appearance- since most of their time is spent in the dark, pale skin and pale features.
• Even their ships are almost void of light except some parts which are lit by ceremonial candles, candelabras, or lamps filled with oil blessed by a high priest or Chaplin

Commander Dante
17-01-2008, 17:42
they are only 20 Primarchs, so you mean chapter master

Dasqueek-Master Assassin
17-01-2008, 18:35
yes I do mean chapter master. I was thinking about changing that part anyways.

Tell me what you think so far

ThorOdensson
17-01-2008, 21:12
The 2nd Founding was in the immediate aftermath of the Horus Heresy the chapters being founded by breaking up the Legions it didnt happen during The Age of Apostasy.

I.E. The Imperial Fists Legion survivors split into 3 Chapters, Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists, Black Templars (Religious Zealot/Crusaders)

Commander Dante
17-01-2008, 21:26
by the time the age of apotopsy happened they were on the 21st cursed foundung

Dasqueek-Master Assassin
17-01-2008, 23:13
oh, ok. well what do ya'll reccomend?

oh and I have been messing around with army painter and here is the one I like the most so far;
http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg34/dcsirkis/?action=view&current=IMG_0562.jpg

GalenArtorius
18-01-2008, 09:47
Oh MY GOD!!! THAT'S PERFECT!!! I love it
Thanks - glad to help :D

Age of Apostasy - 21st Founding - Cursed Founding
This sounds like a good choice for your Chapter. The blind Chaplains still being able to ‘see’ could be a product of the mutations that afflicted the Cursed Chapters, but as it is not a visible, physical mutation it can be kept a secret from most. Only those initiated into the Chapter’s rites would know that the Chaplains are blind and have some precognitive abilities (the meditation before missions).

As one of the Cursed Founding, I would imagine that the Chapter would be eager to show it is not cursed (going back to my previous post of being over eager to show their purity).

Don’t worry about replacing the Word Bearers in your fluff. Their fanaticism was disapproved of by the Emperor, and that drove them to Chaos. Even with the religious fervour that followed, the Word Bearers would still be remembered as a warning by the elders of the SMs. And the Legions were broken down into the much smaller Chapters by Robute Guilliman [sp?], so one Chapter couldn’t replace that much man power anyway. If your Chapter was founded during the Age of Apostasy, maybe the particularly religious members of the sire Chapter were favoured because of their devotion during those dark times. Later, when it became apparent that the other Chapters from the 21st Founding were mutating, while they remained (relatively) normal, your Chapter saw their devotion had protected them from the Curse - leading to more piety.

ARMY COLOURS

I like the white with yellow trim idea. Althought I dont want them to look to much like eggs lol.

Ha! True - Hadn’t thought about that until you said it! I like the scheme you have done on painter. The Chapter symbol will really stand out on the black shoulder plate if you use a lamp or flame (maybe a flaming torch/brand - like the olympic one? Ties back to the Greco-Roman styles used by their Ultramarine sire Chapter?). If you do use BT or DA sprues I would restrict their use to perhaps Vet Sgts or Command squads, or you run the risk of having what is basically a BT/DA army in different colours (plus it would be a pain in th @$$ to file off all those crosses or swords!) the most obvious choice would be the BT, cause many of those have lamps on the minis already (but lots of chains too), but the DA look more religious.

FLUFF
I like a lot of what you have written. I think SM eyes can see into other spectrums already, so perhaps the augmentation is not needed. Instead, maybe the training in complete darkness is done to help promote those parts of the geneseed implants.

If the majority of your force carries lanterns, prolonged nightfighting might not be your speciality! But I like the idea of ambush tactics. I can see the whole force lying in wait with their lanterns covered, then pulling the covers from the lanterns and attacking in the blinding confusion that follows.

Overall, I think you have some really strong ideas. How about a painted up test mini?

Dasqueek-Master Assassin
18-01-2008, 21:25
Wow, thanks so much for your praise galen. I like your idea of them being slightly mutated becasue of the 21st founding.

On the egg marines, LoL, do you think that they look like pre-heresey deathguard with different colors of is that just me?
I have an idea for the left sholder pad/ chapter symbol, but i think it might be a little hard to pull off, unless I can really get my painting skills up.
Hold on and let me see if I can get a picture up of what i have drawn...

HERE WE GO:http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg34/dcsirkis/BrothersLuce-sholderpad.jpg
Im sorry that is hard to see, but its sort of a black background, with a lit candle illuinating the the darkness to reveal the latin word for light.
But I fear that It would be hadr to paint, especially on such a small area

I bought some stuff last night;
the codex, duh.
a box of 5 marines
and the DA veteran 5 man squad (mostly cause I like the robes)

I was gonna try a test maybe this weekend, and try sculpting some candles out of GS to go on top of the regular marines backpacks.
Ill try to get pics up.
But be looking for a project log in the future.

On the fluff, I like the idea of the dark training simply strengthening the already augmented eyes. Thanks again Galen ;)

Any ideas on what doctrines I could use to represent my force?

GalenArtorius
19-01-2008, 09:49
Don’t worry about looking like pre-heresy Deathguard. Your fluff has them being formed millennia later, and unless you paint them up to be shiny marines instead of weathering them (so it looks like they take pride in their armour, opposed to the DG’s more practical view) then there shouldn’t be a problem.

I think the symbol you’ve drawn would be good to use on the Chapter standard or a Commanders back banner, but might be a little complicated to paint on every single marine! It would be better to look at an ideogram version – perhaps a simple white oblong for the candle with a white / yellow flame shape at the top on the black background. This should be suitable for the space on the shoulder pads, and easy enough to do over and over again. Of course, if your freehand skills are amazing you can go for your design. I have seen minis with ‘painterly’ chapter symbols, but these are usually display pieces or Golden Demon entries.

Regarding traits – what do you want this force to be? Are you aiming for a ‘fluffy’ force for friendly play or an all conquering tourney winning monster? If you fill out your fluff first, then you can select traits to reflect that, rather than picking traits that will win you games, but having to compromise your fluff to fit them.

Commander Dante
19-01-2008, 15:35
Age of Aptopsy defeinitly, it was full of Religious politcial upheaval, a perfect time zone to be created.

Commander Dante
19-01-2008, 15:38
and if you want to fit Luce try putting it at the bottom of the shoulder pad and painting the candle abouve it

Dasqueek-Master Assassin
20-01-2008, 00:05
Would a candle be a suitable image, or does anyone have any more ideas?

On traits, I would rather it be a fluffy force than tourney hearvy slaughter. But thats not to say that I want something that will never be used in games

Oh and here is a redux i did on some of the fluff:
Brothers Luce
“Those that face the light, still have a shadow behind them”
“In the absence of light, darkness prevails.”
Frates luce- brothers of light

• The Age of Apostasy (M36) – 21st founding- cursed founding
• The ‘cursed founding’ led to slight mutations in some of the chapters members. These members had abilities of precognition, but because when the gene seed is implanted in them their eyes become mirrored.
They are allowed to fully develop, but upon reaching maturation, they are ritualistically blinded to hide the mutation. From this point they are bread to accept the darkness they have been given. Once they start to accept their fate, it is said that they start to ‘see’ again, and although their ‘visions’ are rough they begin to sharpen as their faith in the Emperor grows. It is also said that they are able to sense the presence of taint in those around them.
• Chaplains’ have a high strength in the chapter and their liturgies are even more fanatical and inspiring than normal. They speak of the guiding light of the emperor and of how they must bring it to the whole galaxy.
• Members seek to bring the light of the emperor to those they purify, and each marine carries a lit ceremonial candle to “bring the light of the emperor to his enemies.” Squad sergents are given ceremonial lanterns. And some veterans have been known to carry braziers of fire.
• Have been known to be incredibly zealous, sometimes to the point of fanaticism to spread the word of ‘light of the emperor’, but it is thought that it is simply to abolish the thought that a thing like mutation might exist in the chapter
----------------
any opinions on the new stuff?

Commander Dante
20-01-2008, 14:30
As a Trait i would pick to advantage that gave them more Flamers and meltas per squad

Dasqueek-Master Assassin
20-01-2008, 22:34
For what reason?

Commander Dante
21-01-2008, 00:57
For what reason?

To "illumanate" thier foes, and to cleanse chaos and xenos taint with holy promethium

GalenArtorius
21-01-2008, 10:11
Tried attaching a few ideas for alternative chapter symbols.

On using more flamers/meltas - SoB's and Salamanders have a similar propensity to use these weapons for the same reason (of bringing cleansing fire/light to the enemies of the Imperium). It's a common imperial motif, but (as I see it), your marines bring illuminating light. A subtle difference, but can make your fluff stand out.

holiday
21-01-2008, 12:27
I was thinking of something like a chapter founded almost completly on faith in the emperor or something like that. Its just a rough idea, but its a starting point so its ok.
The chapter was made to add tactical support to everything from the holiest grey knights and pious sisters to the more radical members of the =][=
their faith keeps them pure, but some might sometimes waiver a bit in their faith.

So I send out a call to anyone who might like to help me on this endevor.
I have some ideas, but I would like to hear yours to.
I need stuff like;
-chapter name
-fluff/ background
-iconagraphy
-unique traits
-tactical out look
etc...
Help me create this chapter, lets make it totally bad A.

This sounds like a young, idealistic chapter. If they rely heavily on Chaplains then they might downplay force commanders--they wouldn't have any tactical geniuses yet and they would be more likely to have their own agendas and be less interested supporting someone else's.

Their general demeanor might be comparatively simple minded ("Haha, I like you Inquisitor Hote, what do you need?") because they lack the sort of experience that make people complicated. They might waiver when things get more complicated ("We can't break an egg to make an omelet, we have to save everyone!").

In terms of iconography, weapons and space marines (maybe just heads or fists) with rays of light shining out from them. If they were an Ultramarine based chapter, they would probably like the idea that the Codex Astartes holds all the answers, so they would probably have lots of books and scrolls also with light shining from them. Chapter banners might represent historical victories rather than things they have done themselves since they don't yet have a long history of their own.

Chains and Glass
21-01-2008, 16:19
id say take lots of veteran squads or lots of the 6 assault squads without jump packs (use a doctrine thingo to make assaults elite)

Ok so ill help out with FOC mostly because im not really than knowledgable (sp?) on clandestine/monk iconography

Chaplains as ALL HQs
Vet squads ("Venerable" Dreadnaught.... would add a sense of Monk-like Reverance for Relics.... very Churchy
For troops take 2 min-maxed Scout squads.... if you want a Veterans and Recruits style.... convert that to playstyle and use Vets/Scouts
Bikes.... could be interesting conversions but they'd have to be convincing or it wouldnt look like theyd fit in... but theyd look MAD if you did them right
Landspeeders... floating cathedrals??? can't see it otherwise....
Landraiders/ Terminators hmmmm... i'd take the landraider as a centrepeice, with heaps and heaps of Candles/ Scrolls/ Searchlights (Inquisitor Lord on Throne bitz and Imperial Guard Tank Accesorie bitz are good places for these)
Devestators.... hmmm maybe....
id say predators and whirlwinds are conversion opportunities... but dont fit in with the style... they will look good and youll be complimented if they work well... but to me it seems more like you want this in an army

Chaplains
2x Vet squads
1x Ven Dread
2x Scouts
1x Assault
Bikes???
and i think Rhinos would be a good way of "Bringing the light"... maybe modelguys in the top hatches with lanterns???

Use Black Templer Chapter Master Grimaldus for a Vet Sarge ;) look coooool with all those candles and lanterns....

Thats how i'd do it if i were you :D

Dasqueek-Master Assassin
21-01-2008, 18:58
Galen, again I love the sound of what your preaching. I also agree that the melta/flamer being cleansing is a little over used by some other chapters. I also agree that my chapter is 'illuminating' which makes it different. But Im still kind of struggling to find traits that would help to represent this on the battlefield.


This sounds like a young, idealistic chapter. If they rely heavily on Chaplains then they might downplay force commanders--they wouldn't have any tactical geniuses yet and they would be more likely to have their own agendas and be less interested supporting someone else's.

Their general demeanor might be comparatively simple minded ("Haha, I like you Inquisitor Hote, what do you need?") because they lack the sort of experience that make people complicated. They might waiver when things get more complicated ("We can't break an egg to make an omelet, we have to save everyone!").


Holiday, I also love some of your ideas too. Thats exactly what I was going for with the chaplins leading. They are more of a headstrong chapter with a little less taste for tactics. That is why they rely on the 'vision' of their chaplins to dictate their battle plan.
I also like the idea that they have their own agenda, probably as a result in some higher up, maybe a self rightous master of sanctity.
I also like the idea of being young and thinking that they have to save EVERYBODY.

Chains and Glass, Im almost positive chaplins might be the sole HQs. Although Im playing with the idea of using a very limited amount of librarians to help combat the psychic aspect of the LatD.
I would like to use vetrans, but to be honest I have no idea how to equip them.
Termminators I see as being very limited, as the chapter is relativly young and would probably not have access to many suits.

I love dreadnoughts and I think a venerable one would be an awsome centerpiece for the army.But im wary of using more than a few as they are pretty rare and the chapter might not be able to secure many. That is unless, they use some of their more, unsavory, contacts to get some.

I feel the same way about landraiders, they could be rolling chapels of light employed by the chaplins. Very cool centerpiece models

I think im haveing a bit of a peoblem with the troop options, as I dont want them to be all scouts and no tac marines.

Anyways, great ideas fellas. Keep 'em coming.
Any ideas about unit compostions? or such?

GalenArtorius
22-01-2008, 09:17
TRAITS
Advantages - ‘Uphold the honour of the emperor’ and ‘Suffer not the work of heretics’ could be taken to reflect the Chapter’s faith in the Emperor’s protection and their desire to destroy bad guys.

Disadvantages - ‘Have pride in your colours’ - No infiltrators to reflect all of the candles and lights on their armour, and the ‘Chapels of Light’ (sounds like it could be a great conversion). Alternatively, to show they are a young Chapter with limited resources try ‘Aspire to glory’ or ‘Flesh over steel’.

I’m not an expert on FOC and army comp, but here are some ideas:
Tac squads should be the backbone of any space marine army. Take them for mobile fire support or mount them in Rhinos to support assault squads. Take full squads of 10 to show codex adherence.

Assault squads with Jump Packs and a Chaplain have become popular for a hard-hitting combat choice.

If you take ‘Pride in your colours’, the scouts would have to set up in your deployment zone so could be set up for long range support with Sniper rifles/missile launcher. Scout bikes could be used for support and to claim objectives/table quarters.

Take your elites in power armour squads to show limited Terminator armour resources - save termies for command squad only (because you have to love the Chaplain in Terminator armour mini), and cover the armour in scrolls and icons to show how precious it is.

Other then this, I guess it will depend on the armies you’ll be facing or the kind of scenery you’ll usually be playing with (e.g. will it be more Cityfight or lots of open spaces?).

Dasqueek-Master Assassin
22-01-2008, 23:34
Well, I just got done finishing up a test,munis the candle on his backpack, and I must say that I like it very much.
Im not very good with cameras, but ill try to get a picture up soon.
be looking for a poject log soon if your interested