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Cragspyder
17-01-2008, 02:12
I'm having trouble deciding what I have to do to make my Saurus Warrior blocks even mildly effective.

I've played a rather Saurus-heavy Lizardman list for a while now and while the rest of my list seems to perform (aside from my butterfingered Kroxigor), I can't seem to get my Saurus to do anything worthwhile.

Frankly, although they are good for panic tests and such with the LD 8 Cold-blooded, and as well they seem to be good on paper with the 2 attacks and S 4 and T 4, they never seem to work for me. Ideally they should work great on the charge at least, correct? However, a couple games ago, I managed to charge a unit of 20 odd Big Uns with my Slann's (who has a Battle Standard) unit. They did have 1 rank more and a BSB hero, so on average I should only lose by a little bit, and hold due to LD 9 Cold-Blooded with a reroll. Instead, I killed 1 Big Un and lost by 6, and they were run down. For good measure, I charged another Saurus unit into them again the next turn, and again was immediately broken and run down.... I realize that may just be horrible luck, but it seems to happen consistantly...

Last game I played I ran a unit of 10 HW+S Saurus with a champion for kicks, charged some Dryads (who have the exact same effective stats vs. Saurus except for the higher WS, and I believe are the exact same points) and once again they lost by 4 or so and were broken.

I admit, it's party due to my laziness with having lots of Saurus painted from 5th edition (when they were even more useless) and wanting to use them. And then, of course, not wanting to paint more (or pay the points for) a full three ranks for all three units.

So, I have stuck with 2 units of 15 Saurus and 1 unit of 16 Tlazcotl Saurus (this unit has the two ranks when my Slann is in the unit). I even have a Saurus Hero specfically built to support these units (he has the Charm of You Strike Last in the Lizardman CC phase, and I try to make sure the enemy overruns into me so I can trigger it in my turn.)

Likely I should drop a unit of Saurus and buff the other two up to 20 man, but I rather wanted to use all three units, and that is quite a few of my limited support units otherwise...

I hear a lot about how Saurus (along with Chaos Warriors) are underpowered, and I feel I see that now, unfortunately. With my Lizardmen being shelved for a time and my Tomb Kings taking their turn in the limelight, should I paint up some more Warriors and try it again? Or are Saurus just not worth it at all, ever, and its time to bite the bullet and go with the Skink/Kroxigor horde?

Kerill
17-01-2008, 03:28
Well as a chaos player rather than lizardmen I think saurus are a lot better than CW, it sounds like you have been running into bad luck as much as anything else. Also since I don't play lizardmen the following is mostly maths and theory hammer. Against dryads (ranking 8 wide against you) you should kill 2, get 2.6 killed in return and draw with your rank bonus in your first round. If dryads charge you (and in subsequent rounds) you should lose by a lot though (dryads kill 3.1 saurus, saurus kill 0.82). Having said that if you were charged by 20 dryads (10 in the flank) they would kill 4.4 saurus, you could kill 1.5 dryads (losing by three), dryads would have outnumber. You have 3 ranks and standard to its a draw (saurus win with musician), if we add in the flank attack then saurus lose by 1 and should hold.

Having said that for your slann unit I would say you would buff it to 20 (incidentally with the slann in the unit of 16 you should get 3 ranks not two if they are 5 wide). I would also suggest generally going for quetzl for that unit and giving the slann a magic standard- war banner against most foe and maybe cause fear banner against undead. With a 3+ save, +6/7CR nothing short of a bretonnian grail knight bus should be able to break them. Then keep 1 unit as 16 near the other one (so you could potentially switch sthe slann between blocks if they are threatened to gain the +6CR) and 1 unit of 10 for support/redirecting(without standard, sotec if you use them to countercharge otherwise keep them bare and cheap with nothing but a musician, consider huanchi if you tend to play with a lot of woods to take down scouts, beastherds and to be a general annoyance).

Krox are generally better than small units of saurus but lack the cusomisability so they are better but not game-breakingly so. Against the dryads you mentioned, if Krox get the charge they would kill 2.5, take 1.2 in return and win overall. If the dryads charged they would kill a Krox, take 1.6 in return and dryads win. Krox are also better against cavalry.

2 attacks at S4 is good, but with the amount of armour in 6th and 7th editions you can't expect THAT many kills (average against swordsmen for example (with champ) would be 2.4 on the charge. Also in the case of dryads its as much that they are undercosted as saurus being underpowered.

Dendo Star
17-01-2008, 11:22
The most effective Saurus blocks I have seen have been 12 Saurus, 6x2 with a Standard and Musician. This way, you have not too many points in the unit and make up for your ranks and outnumber with the (at least!) 12 S4 attacks coming at the enemy.

The ultimate question is whether to give them Spears or HW+Shield. Fascinatingly enough, either way of arming such Saurus units works. It is just a question of your own personal preference - additional attacks or a Higher Armour Save. My wife seems to enjoy the 4+ AS and I would vote for that as well.

Semi_Bunny
17-01-2008, 14:32
Well @ dendo, I disagree, spears usually never make up their points from what I have found, but I guess they might work out for some people. I usually end up fielding my saurus units in a 6x3 formation @ 2000 points and actually a few times they've done fairly well. The big problems with the saurus are A: their slow movement and B: their point cost. With this combination, your paying a lot for a unit that wont get into combat until maybe the 3rd turn.

The way I use the saurus are always with skinks as a screen (unless the JSOD is in that unit and needs to charge out, or a skink priest is and needs to cast) and a unit of 3 kroxigors and/or 5 saurus cavalry on a flank to support them. Since they are not really elite infantry but they are better than most, I find the support unit helps to break the units with high static CR or that are better in combat.

An example of the support units lending to their success was a game I played against chaos. We were just playing a small fun game (I think it was at 1000 points) so my friend decided to bring a khorne list with 5 chosen knights and 15 chosen warriors. The way it turned out was I had a fairly depleted unit of skink scouts in front of the warriors (as bait mostly) and a unit of kroxigors on their left flank. My friend (who at the time was fairly new) took the skink bait and charged them with the warriors, obviously killing them all and overrunning into the warriors. I of course charged with the kroxigors into his flanks the next turn (it probably wont be as easy to set up the flank charges but I got lucky this time) and the first round of combat went in my favor as I killed about 3 and he killed 5, but I had ranks, flank charge, and outnumber. The next turn he managed to get his knights to charge at my saurus making the combat 5 chosen frenzy knights and the remaining CWs againt the saurus and kroxigors. Luckily the scar vet w/ great wep in the unit managed to take out a knight or two and turn, and to make a long story short I ended up winning with all my kroxigors left and about 10 saurus remaining.

Bottom line I say is to always have your saurus supported and they will do well, if you put them in alone they will either get beaten by a more elite unit or get bested by static CR.

Windings of a snake
17-01-2008, 16:19
To be perfectly honest with you there is only one way of using them effectivly:

That way is not using them.

This may sound very unkind but they do lack just everything a good unit of infantry needs.
They do not have a decent armour save related to their cost. They are not stubborn or posses any other outstanding abilities.

In addition their weapon skill is insufficient. They have M4 and they are too expensive.

I rarely ever see anyone use saurus warriors except for temple guard.

The extra attack does not make up for that.

Borthcollective
17-01-2008, 17:21
I claim BS on weapon skill as a problem. They are not elite infantry and don't require a higher WS, they hit on a 4+ and are hit by most other units on a 4+. They have 2 Str 4 attacks, 4 toughness, and a 4+ save, can be 3+. The only thing I don't like is the move and initiative. Still I take them every game I play and they do just fine. Put a Scar Vet with them and he'll wipe out the first row of the enemy by himself.

Zoolander
17-01-2008, 17:44
To be perfectly honest with you there is only one way of using them effectivly:

That way is not using them.

This may sound very unkind but they do lack just everything a good unit of infantry needs.
They do not have a decent armour save related to their cost. They are not stubborn or posses any other outstanding abilities.

In addition their weapon skill is insufficient. They have M4 and they are too expensive.

I rarely ever see anyone use saurus warriors except for temple guard.

The extra attack does not make up for that.

Do NOT listen to him. Sauruses are some of the best warriors in the game. They are awesome. I field two units almost every time and they do their job quite well. I would think you losses are just bad luck. I've NEVER had temple guard run... ever. The chances of that are pretty low. Stubborn on a 9 with reroll and cold blood? The trick is to keep them close to your general, for one thing. When I play with blocks of sauruses, I play defensively, and let him come to me. Then my CW riders charge in and the warriors help.

Oh, and hand weapon and shield is vastly better than spears.

Cragspyder
17-01-2008, 17:58
Thank you all for your thoughts and advice!

@Kerill: Honestly I run the Slann's unit at 6 wide just because it looks better :( Silly I know.

Ironically enough, after I posted I got to some thinking on what I would do on this issue, did some math, and decided to push the Slann's unit and my other HW and shield unit to 20 members, then drop the third to a 10 man support squad. This was BEFORE I read your post, I am glad to see we think alike. I really wanted the War Banner on my Slann too but I cannot find the points for it, I will have to try harder :)

@Dendo Star: This is how I run them in a smaller game (6x2 seems better then 5x2 however so I will try that).

@Semi_Bunny: I do my best to support the Saurus. I've got a unit of 4 Kroxigor, 3 Terradons, 2 Salamander Teams, and sadly only 2 units of Skinks (1 scouting). I need to make space for a third team of Skinks as well but then I might as well just run a Skink-heavy list at that point and give up on the Saurus altogether :) Of course the Slann supports the Saurus blocks as well, and my Scar Veteran with the Strike First item does too. With the new layout I will have a 10 man Saurus block for support as well.

@Windings of a Snake: I appreciate your blunt honesty, and I do tend to feel the same way about the WS that you do.

@Borthcollective: It is said that the average WS is 3 but I feel it is truly 4 for anything that will actually threaten the Saurus in the first place. Striking on threes (against Skeletons or Goblins or similar) really turns Saurus into a death machine, but they hit on fours and are hit on threes by anything remotely their match (Dryads, Big 'Uns, any Chaos mortals trooper, most (all?) Dwarves, Elves of any sort, most Knights, etc), and I find it really makes a difference.

@Zoolander: I do not run Temple Guard, the points in the list and the money in my wallet prevent me, no matter how much I really want WS 4, S 5 and Stubborn. :) My Slann is guarded by mere Tlazcotl Saurus. I do tend to keep the Slann nearby, but when you are losing by 6 every combat even Ld 9 Cold-Blooded with a BSB is not going to keep you fighting... I admit it is mostly bad luck though, my rolling is horrendous.

Borthcollective
17-01-2008, 18:36
Dryads skirmish, your CR alone should crush them, Big Uns 1 unit per army, Chaos Warriors pay more per model, Dwarves are slower, but tell me an army that doesn't have hth problems with them, elves, laugh off their str3 no save modifier attacks, and Knights, really don't even compare foot troops to Knights.

One-S
17-01-2008, 18:55
To be perfectly honest with you there is only one way of using them effectivly:

That way is not using them.

This may sound very unkind but they do lack just everything a good unit of infantry needs.
They do not have a decent armour save related to their cost. They are not stubborn or posses any other outstanding abilities.

In addition their weapon skill is insufficient. They have M4 and they are too expensive.

I rarely ever see anyone use saurus warriors except for temple guard.

The extra attack does not make up for that.

I agree with this and I'd like to add, that the low I doesn't help either.

Saurus are probably going to get charged with M4, will mostly be hit on 3's and if not running will strike last in the next round of combat thanks to a fabulous I1.
You really want a descent static CR with them, but 12 points a head is to expensive for that (if you look at goblins and static CR you get the picture).
The 2 attacks, T4, average save and cold blood will help them survive a little longer.
If surviving a little longer is all they're good at. Then they'll still die in the end.

The key to the failure of your saurus based army isn't in your skills. If you can get a charge of with a saurus unit then you understand something about the game. The reason of failure is in the troop choise itself.

One-S
17-01-2008, 19:01
Dryads skirmish, your CR alone should crush them, Big Uns 1 unit per army, Chaos Warriors pay more per model, Dwarves are slower, but tell me an army that doesn't have hth problems with them, elves, laugh off their str3 no save modifier attacks, and Knights, really don't even compare foot troops to Knights.

5 darkriders with repXbows will tease a unit of 20 saurus warriors to death, they don't see the need to engage and get their hands dirty.
And that's not knights I'm talking about, just a fast cav unit with a ranged attack at a low strength.

Borthcollective
17-01-2008, 19:19
5 darkriders with repXbows will tease a unit of 20 saurus warriors to death, they don't see the need to engage and get their hands dirty.
And that's not knights I'm talking about, just a fast cav unit with a ranged attack at a low strength.

Because I'm not going to guard their flanks with skinks or anything. Seriously my 60 points worth of skinks will destroy your dark riders, what was your point?

Caboose123
17-01-2008, 20:02
I fear the common opinion here is "taking them" but ill give some better advice :)

Take the host of X lists, they give the saurus another benefit for few points, well, its a good buy. Quetzl is common for 3+ save saurus.

Saurus are made to fight in a protracted combat, with an impressive amount of damage, even without the charge. They need to hold in the first round crucially (sp?). Against a unit with a character the character will usually swing the combat unless you have your own character in the unit. They need to not get flanked or other kind of disadvantage. Any 1 on 1 fight and they should win. Charging or getting charged inst usually an issue. Support for them is not needed, but handy, i would take out the slann....

Well, hope it helps

Saurus should be taken, for points the OP has noted already, those who dont take them should be ashamed!

Goruax
17-01-2008, 21:07
I agree with Caboose, the Sacred Host lists really give them a boost and, although a touch more expensive, they remain Core.
Huanchi's a good one too, as is Tlazcotl, but they aren't the outright simple save bonus of Quetzl, but mightly useful.

kdh88
17-01-2008, 21:30
I fear the common opinion here is "taking them" but ill give some better advice :)

Take the host of X lists, they give the saurus another benefit for few points, well, its a good buy. Quetzl is common for 3+ save saurus.

Saurus are made to fight in a protracted combat, with an impressive amount of damage, even without the charge. They need to hold in the first round crucially (sp?). Against a unit with a character the character will usually swing the combat unless you have your own character in the unit. They need to not get flanked or other kind of disadvantage. Any 1 on 1 fight and they should win. Charging or getting charged inst usually an issue. Support for them is not needed, but handy, i would take out the slann....

Well, hope it helps

Saurus should be taken, for points the OP has noted already, those who dont take them should be ashamed!

Just as an add-on to this, make sure you take big units in a Sacred Host list, since you pay per unit instead of per model. I'll also second Quetzl as the best option; the spawning is useful on every unit, and Lore of Death is better than Lore of Heavens. Gogo Fear causing Saurus and Terror causing Kroxigors.

Saurus seem to be a unit that's right on the cusp of being good, but falls just a bit short, espescially when compared to the underpriced Skinks. A point less for Saurus and a point more for Skinks would give the list much better internal balance IMHO.

Goruax
17-01-2008, 22:06
Huanchi is good too - free movement through woods/jungle/etc plus it gives the Lore of Shadow: 38" charging JSOD? Hello!
Shadow also gives the Fear-causing spell.

If you can, with either Shadow or Death, try and take quick a few Skink Priests, since that spell can stack, and if you have 2/3 with it, it can be great.

Kerill
18-01-2008, 00:38
I would agree with using the Quetzl host (also because as far as WYSIWYG is concerned they don't have a different colour scheme to normal saurus). Problem with huanchi is that if the slann is in the unit they can't move through terrain since the slann doesn't have that rule. Death also has the fear spell as well as the default spell being a magic missile which is more useful turn after turn than steed of shadows.

And I would definitely try to fit the war banner in, 25 points isn't much after all...

Goruax
18-01-2008, 01:06
Problem with huanchi is that if the slann is in the unit they can't move through terrain since the slann doesn't have that rule. Death also has the fear spell as well as the default spell being a magic missile which is more useful turn after turn than steed of shadows.

Well, Slann isn't a problem when you don't bother and buy a few skink priests.
Besides, who could say no to a 38" JSOD? :D
Yeah, Quetzl is great, I guess I'm a touch biased towards Huanchi :angel:

But Steed of Shadows is great, especially if you have a couple of Saurus characters, you can jump them between units.
And Shadows has Unseen Lurker, which can really help you get the jump on units when you have the pitifully slow Saurus marching about.
Pit of Shades also scares the bejesus into people of the Orc and other Low I ilk, and isn't to be sniffed at by most others.

p3990013
18-01-2008, 14:38
I don't like saurus. I'd use skinks to cover troop choices and then go for either 4 X kroxigors or for 5 X Cold one riders, plus two stegadons and an oldblood on carnosaur.

Very few infantry in the game are worth it IMO...

One-S
18-01-2008, 15:19
5 darkriders with repXbows will tease a unit of 20 saurus warriors to death, they don't see the need to engage and get their hands dirty.And that's not knights I'm talking about, just a fast cav unit with a ranged attack at a low strength.



Because I'm not going to guard their flanks with skinks or anything. Seriously my 60 points worth of skinks will destroy your dark riders, what was your point?

I agree, skinks RULE.

Why would you spend points on saurus wariors then? To give the skinks something to protect? Honestly, I think that this makes the saurus wariors even more expensive, You've just proven that they NEED a babysitter.

240 points of saurus have a threat range of 8 inch in their front arc only.
All you need to do to avoid them is stay out of this 8 inch threat zone. If you consider the size of a battlefield, that 's easy to ignore.

240 points of skinks gives you 4 times 10 skinks, each with a threat range of 36" inch (18 inch in all directions). Your opponent will be looking at 80 poisoned ranged attacks a turn if he doesn't do something about them. THAT isn't easily ignored.

kroq'gar
18-01-2008, 15:29
I field one large block witha bsb bearer and mark of quetzl. The static plus 3+ save plus pain dishout makes thema match for most things (and they can hold any charge with the reroll).

BSB gets lightarmour , quetlzl, tepoc, 5+ ward and +1 st.


Try it, i swear by it as the anchor for my fast units to gravitate around.

Borthcollective
18-01-2008, 15:37
All blocks are susceptible to fast cavalry shooting, that doesn't make them bad. All blocks need flank support. It's not an issue that only affect Saurus.

Caboose123
18-01-2008, 15:52
Those sacred hosts are good, but its not an end-all solution, they just add a little variety to the armies, and are a tad underpriced (on purpose) to help as a "quick fix" for saurus, like you saw done to the DE book. They are in a way very restrictive though, mandatory lores etc.

(cant believe everyone agreed with me! :))

Cragspyder
18-01-2008, 16:01
The way it seems to be, the only infantry that are truly worth have to have one or more of these things:

1. Stubborn
2. Unbreakable
3. Always strikes first.
4. A special ability that can let them get the charge (ie. Waaagh) or that lessens the negative impact of a charging enemy (ie. detachments).

One-S
18-01-2008, 16:13
All blocks are susceptible to fast cavalry shooting, that doesn't make them bad. All blocks need flank support. It's not an issue that only affect Saurus.

True, but this doesn't explain why one should take saurus wariors rather then skinks.

I understand that saurus warriors are good compared to other infantry blocks, but this doesn't explain why I need them.
IMO most infantry blocks suffer from the same weaknessess. They're not much of a threat(as mentioned before), are easy to ignore and they NEED support.
First objective vs an infantry blocks based army: kill the support, the rest will follow. You'll have at least 2 turns to deal with the support and nothing but the support, because the blocks are still trying to close a 24 inch gap with M4.

kbolster12345
18-01-2008, 16:27
IMO most infantry blocks suffer from the same weaknessess. They're not much of a threat(as mentioned before), are easy to ignore and they NEED support.
.


True. and in a way is why Ogres are so soft. Ogre units are very much like infantry units with the exception of higher M rate but lack viable cheap supporting units that can keep up with them.

On the Suarus topic. I had 2 units of 20 and like it. I planted a BSB in with them and made sure he had the sword that let him strike first. I have to say that it worked like a charm.

MarcoPollo
18-01-2008, 17:12
For my tourney list, I use a block of 16 saurus warriors to safeguard my slann. I use them instead of Temple guard as they perform almost as well (and in some cases are more versatile). But, I round out the rest of the army with nasty shooty stuff (salamanders and skinks), and fast hitty stuff (krox/terradons/cold one cav). It does quite well.

But I don't expect alot out of the unit, other than a body guard for the slann. But I also find that the unit needs a character (usually a JSOD) as it helps offset the poor initiative of 1.

Feefait
18-01-2008, 18:18
I myself love Saurus. I typically play against Orcs, Ogres, HE and Bretts. And they excel. I usually do 2 block of 20, never spears. I recently started 6 x 2 or 3 ranks though with spears. We'll see. i like the fear that big block instills. It also helps to dominate the center of the field if that's where i have them.

I completely disagree that in order for a unit to be "useful" they need a special ability. ASF is way over used and is gettign to be meaningless soon. Stubborn should be a very special ability. Plus stubborn with cold blooded is deadly.

As was mentioned, you just need to survive that first round. If you do then Saurus will rock. I always go defensive with the Spawning of Quetzl. Then I challenge them to come after me. If not My Cold One riders, skinks and salamanders will take them out. And if they don't then they still need to deal with ym Saurus basically untouched. BTW I don't use the JSOD.

Malorian
18-01-2008, 18:22
I use my units of saurus for two things:

1. They give me a solid core so you can't just run up and kill my salamanders and skinks

and

2. as a mop up unit. Forst I hit them with magic/salamanders/saurus cav/skinks and then at about turn 4 the saurus hit and finish up any pockets or reinforce problem areas.

Zoolander
19-01-2008, 06:56
True, but this doesn't explain why one should take saurus wariors rather then skinks.

I understand that saurus warriors are good compared to other infantry blocks, but this doesn't explain why I need them.
IMO most infantry blocks suffer from the same weaknessess. They're not much of a threat(as mentioned before), are easy to ignore and they NEED support.
First objective vs an infantry blocks based army: kill the support, the rest will follow. You'll have at least 2 turns to deal with the support and nothing but the support, because the blocks are still trying to close a 24 inch gap with M4.

Because skinks tend to die in droves with no TO and no armor. Any shooting or magic wipes the floor with them. No to mention a charge by anything... warriors have their purpose just as skinks do.

One-S
19-01-2008, 09:31
Because skinks tend to die in droves with no TO and no armor. Any shooting or magic wipes the floor with them. No to mention a charge by anything... warriors have their purpose just as skinks do.

That's what you want skinks for, to let them die in droves ...
As long as your opponent is occupied with the skinks, he won't be targeting the rest of your army.
If you field skinks in units of 13 he'll need 4 or more kills to get a panic check. If your opponent wants to throw his magic missiles at the skinks, let him.
One D6 str whatever isn't going to get rid of them on average, so he'll need at least 2 missiles. Please target my skinks with those, I don't care. the worst that can happen is a panic check on a 78 points unit.
You want to shoot at the skinks, OK. Basic BS 3 for thunderers/ crossbowmen,... Means you'll be hitting the skinks on 6's on long range. you'll need at least 24 thunderers/ crossbowmen,... to get an average 4 hits and then you still need to wound the skinks.
If your opponent wants to spend all his resources to get rid of the skinks, then the rest of the army will get there unscathed.
If you ignore skinks, then they're a pain, raining poisoned death on the enemy.
If you don't ignore them, then you'll be spending to much resources to get rid of them.
IMO skinks are a must have.
Saurus warriors, Well I can live without them.

Caboose123
19-01-2008, 14:22
That's what you want skinks for, to let them die in droves ...
As long as your opponent is occupied with the skinks, he won't be targeting the rest of your army.
If you field skinks in units of 13 he'll need 4 or more kills to get a panic check. If your opponent wants to throw his magic missiles at the skinks, let him.
One D6 str whatever isn't going to get rid of them on average, so he'll need at least 2 missiles. Please target my skinks with those, I don't care. the worst that can happen is a panic check on a 78 points unit.
You want to shoot at the skinks, OK. Basic BS 3 for thunderers/ crossbowmen,... Means you'll be hitting the skinks on 6's on long range. you'll need at least 24 thunderers/ crossbowmen,... to get an average 4 hits and then you still need to wound the skinks.
If your opponent wants to spend all his resources to get rid of the skinks, then the rest of the army will get there unscathed.
If you ignore skinks, then they're a pain, raining poisoned death on the enemy.
If you don't ignore them, then you'll be spending to much resources to get rid of them.
IMO skinks are a must have.
Saurus warriors, Well I can live without them.

The opinion of the masses right there im afraid, do you use a southlands list or normal list full of skinks? The horned ones look really appealing for skink armies...

Still i could never run a list with no saurus anymore. I think its just a stupid army (no offense) unfluffy and exploitation of a slight points problem (7 or 8 point skinks?...)

Goruax
19-01-2008, 14:41
I think that whilst Skinks are undeniably useful, it's just damn unfun, IMHO, to go with TEH SKINK HOARDE OF DOOM!
Frankly, Saurus are cool.
Yes, they're slow and dumb, but they're powerful and vicious fighters.
If you take them with a combination of Skinks, Kroxigor and Terradons, you'll best anything.

Caboose123
19-01-2008, 18:51
skink hoard?
That would be funny, a skink army with as few skinks as possible?...
:D