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Anointed_By_Filth
17-01-2008, 18:11
Pretty simple question, I'm running a chaos army and I want my terminators to be more survivable, which mark is better for this?

EVIL INC
17-01-2008, 18:17
What type of army are you running? Unless it is a black legion army, I wouldnt really get TOO into mixing up the cults within the army and would stick to a theme (thats what the codex was intended for even though it is possible to play unthemed armies as well).
If I was playing an unthemed army or a black legion army, I would go with tzeentch termies. The 4+ inv save would make me feel better then the t5.

Thoth62
17-01-2008, 18:18
Both have advantages depending on what's shooting at it. The IoN will be better for the average to low strength weapons that still let you get an armour save. Anything that's S7 and higher and allowing an armour save gives you the same survivability, and S7+ with AP 2 or better, the IoT is better.

What kind of armies do you normally face? Are there lots of high strength, high AP weapons, or are they predominantly average strength or lower?

Edit: I forgot to mention that I would likely take the increased Inv. save over the increased toughness. But that's more due to personal preference than anything.

TRICorp
17-01-2008, 18:33
I would go with the Icon of Tzeentch. Most of the firepower that will be coming towards your termies will be Low Ap. Almost all of the low Ap weapons will have higher strength, where +1T usually wont be a factor.

Dantès
17-01-2008, 18:37
I would go with the Icon of Tzeentch. Most of the firepower that will be coming towards your termies will be Low Ap. Almost all of the low Ap weapons will have higher strength, where +1T usually wont be a factor.

He's right. Guns that are directed towards terminators are 9/10 plasma gun strength and ap and above. Which doesnt help the Nurgle terminators at all.

Xenocidal Maniac
17-01-2008, 19:01
You know, the "Mark of..." whatever is simply a fancy name for an upgade that costs points. Even if you are taking a Khorne themed army, you can still give your Termies a Mark of Tzeentch or Nurgle or whatever and just say that your terminators have extra armor or are extra tough or whatever.

That's what I do, anyway.

Anointed_By_Filth
17-01-2008, 19:16
Before the codex change I played Word Bearers, but I only ever painted a few because life was hectic. Now I'm playing Black Legion so I can incorporate all of the chaos gods, well, most of them anyway. I typically play against Tau, DA, BT, sometimes Necrons, DE and soon to be Eldar from what I'm told.

EVIL INC
17-01-2008, 19:42
You know, the "Mark of..." whatever is simply a fancy name for an upgade that costs points. Even if you are taking a Khorne themed army, you can still give your Termies a Mark of Tzeentch or Nurgle or whatever and just say that your terminators have extra armor or are extra tough or whatever.

That's what I do, anyway.
That is a good idea. I almost posted it a few days ago but didnt cause I thought I would be laughed down for it.:p
That would actually be a decent way to get past the few problems that are present with the marks and making legion armies that are totally true to fluff. Good lord dont mention that to the anti-new chaos fanatics who are throwing fits over losing thier daemon bomb and pie plate-o- doom armies. It would actually require knowing the fluff and using your imagination to play a game set in an imaginary world. :rolleyes:

Vaz84
17-01-2008, 21:45
Im with Xenocidal on that, chaos marks are nothing more than buffs really these days. Just remember, your icon bearer can be single out, so give it to one of the aspiring champions you upgrade.

I pin my incons with a little blue-tac inside the hole, to change the benefit to the squad around as I go. I think it varies per army what is most useful. Now remember, you dont have to paint the squad whichever way the icon is, the icon is the bonus giver, nothing else.

Hashmal
17-01-2008, 21:50
Im with Xenocidal on that, chaos marks are nothing more than buffs really these days. Just remember, your icon bearer can be single out, so give it to one of the aspiring champions you upgrade.

I pin my incons with a little blue-tac inside the hole, to change the benefit to the squad around as I go. I think it varies per army what is most useful. Now remember, you dont have to paint the squad whichever way the icon is, the icon is the bonus giver, nothing else.

I use magnets to be able to swap icons at whim. It works wonders!

Anointed_By_Filth
18-01-2008, 14:09
I don't know about all of these painting suggestions, if a unit has an icon I like to paint it accordingly. As far as putting the icon on the champion, that'll be pretty easy because I run my terminators as a full squad of champions.

I didn't start this thread as a 'what looks better?' thread, it was simply a question about survivability, and that's really all I want to know, not painting or modeling suggestions.

Joah_from_Alberta
18-01-2008, 16:44
Go with Tzeentch. Marks are history-- everything is a bloody icon nowadays thanks to Britney.

Vaz84
18-01-2008, 16:49
A 50% chance to get your invunrable save is pretty priceless.

qwertywraith
18-01-2008, 16:50
I will be going with the IoT on my termies. The amount of weapons that deny the 2+ save is immense and they almost always are better than S6. The IoT is also cheaper. The only time that I would use the IoN is if they were deploying later (via deepstrike or in a Land Raider) and I could reasonably expect to kill or neutralise some or all of my opponents AP2 weaponry. This is probably only possible in small games.

Incidently, I would only use the Icon of Tzeetch of squads of 5+. Anything smaller and you might as well take another terminator.

W0lf
18-01-2008, 16:50
Tzeentch by miles.

People will shoot Ap2 weapons at your termies.

As a result most Ap 2 weapons are S7+ meaning T5 is no benefit over 4.

TzeentchForPresident
18-01-2008, 17:16
There are a few occasions when Icon of +1 Thougness is better suited than having the Icon +1 Inv save for your spikey Terminators. Vs armies that beats armour saves by doing lots and lots of low strength attacks, in which case the armour save and the Inv. save doesn´t matter. And if you are fighting Banshees, they ignore saves but have low strength.

In fight vs non-spikey termies with Powerfist, then the Icon of +1 Inv save is clearly better. However equipping your spikey termies with the Icon +1 Attack is even better, they don´t really need better Inv. save or higher thoughness since there is hardly anything left to fight back :p.

And you really can´t call them Tzeentch or Nurgle terminators since a Vindicare assassin can reduce them to ordinary spiky terminators with just one shoot.

Madfool2
18-01-2008, 17:30
It depends what kills your terminators.

I see basic firepower killing terminators more, so +1T works for me, although the benefit of 4+ inv is something to consider when being battered by plasma and the occasional demolisher cannon.

Captin Korea!
18-01-2008, 17:54
+4 inv please.

UncleCrazy
18-01-2008, 18:07
Try a few games with the differnt Icons. Find which works the best for you.

P.S.
I have always liked the Mark Of Billy-Bob

Griffin
18-01-2008, 18:56
I prefer to use the Icon depending on what enemies I fight - If I'm going against Nids where my Termies will be swamped by gaunts and the like then Nurgle is Tasty, if I come against Las/plas of doom then I prefer the tzeentch one. Don't under estimate the Icon of nurgle though T5 Termies are actually horrendously powerful against small arms.

qwertywraith
18-01-2008, 22:24
Griffin has it right and Thoth62 explained it in more detail:

The IoT makes you more survivable against S7 and higher weapons that ignore armour.

The IoN makes you more survivable against S6 and lower weapons that DON'T ignore armour.

The IoN and the IoT provide exactly the same protection against S6 or lower weapons that deny armour saves.

With the lower cost and the pre-eminence of AP2 and better weapons, the IoT wins out for me.