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Emperor's Avenger
17-01-2008, 18:49
I'm sure I'm not the first person to post this, but do you play largely for fun or largely just to win?

This comes after a 900 points games against a Tau player who uncluded in his army:

2 squads of 7 fire warriors

2 commanders and six battlesuits in teams of 2 - all with missile pods and either plasma rifles or fusion blasters

Basically, you sit the battlesuits behind terrain, use the fire warriors to shoot at whatever and jump the suits out of and into cover. Nearly impossible for a none-deep-striking army to deal with. An easy win for him, but ever so dull for both players.

IG_hopeful
17-01-2008, 18:53
Pretty much play for fun (something to do)

kermit
17-01-2008, 18:56
If you are playing to win... then you need a different HOBBY!

HOBBIES ARE FOR FUN!!

I play for fun!

Adiem
17-01-2008, 19:01
Play for fun, but like to win :)

Max Jet
17-01-2008, 19:02
That's not THAT bad. Switch one fire warrior squad to 6 people only in a devilfish and the other to some kroot just infiltrating in a forrest with a 4+ save and nearly impossible to get out there and you truly have a "I want to win" army (1000 Points game).


Well... compare this thing to a game of Monopoly. Of course you want the best steets with the best hotels, don't want to go to jail, but just make a lot of money (which of course is being paid by your very best friends.) But in the end you are just happy everyone enjoyed a fine afternoon, with lots of laughter, joy and snacks. That's jsut the key of a social hobby.
You want to make it as a challenging and remarkable event (in college you do not really have that much time for such a hobby) so you really try to win, but without cheating, getting loud, or showing signs of frsutration.
So I say, I play both for winning and the fun! Nobody wants to play a game against someone with a dull army intended to loose, and also nobody wants to play nidzilla while not being prepared for such a foe or something else.

Xenocidal Maniac
17-01-2008, 19:09
Well, I think everyone is going to vote for play for fun...

I play for fun and like to make themed lists. Unfortunately, most people at my local game store make the most broken lists they can and try to pound others into submission.

But I guarantee you they would vote "for fun" on this poll.

Caboose123
17-01-2008, 19:13
Who's going to actually say:
"Actually I play to crush my opponents, the more they cry, the more im satisfied. I like the smug satisfaction of massacering opponents with my cheesy list of unstoppable ness. RAW is cheating, as a game system we have to accept whats written; GO RAI!!! ..... You smell :D"

Seriously? The game is for fun, anyone else can probably be at least partially included in the above.

Onlyhestands
17-01-2008, 19:13
I make a fun list that I try to win with, so its both. Theres no point if your not trying to win at all, but someone who only wants to win isn't fun to fight either.

CommisarMolotov
17-01-2008, 19:15
I try to win, but I like to play with a "fluff" army that I enjoy. That way, I don't mind losing quite as badly...

I'm also a bit picky about who I will and won't play against.

redbaron998
17-01-2008, 19:17
I play for FUN,

I regularly take the less efficent options to fit fluff and fun factor and never regret it. It is a proven fact with me that Fluff fitting armies roll better, same goes for paintint armies and units with big banners.

I dont mind if my opponent plays to win, I still strive to win, but as long as it isnt a cake walk for anyone and its at least semi close we have lots of fun

Dominatrix
17-01-2008, 19:22
I play to win. No cheating, no making the opponents' life miserable by whining over broken lists or freakish dice rolls. This way no matter who wins in the end we both have fun.

Radish
17-01-2008, 19:26
Winning I find is only good if it was a close game, and thats where the REAL fun comes into it. The best games I've had (as I bet many people) are ones that I barely won or barely lost. And sometimes I think its more fun to lose quite heavily, refusing to give and dieing to a man as a result in true Dark Angel form!

TzeentchForPresident
17-01-2008, 19:28
Play for fun, but like to win :)

Same. But it isn´t much of a game if the outcome is never in doubt from start. Losing or winning all the time = no fun. Close fought games = the sex

That is why I play WH40K not APOC, since that game doesn´t have much support for balance except points.

3 0f 6
17-01-2008, 19:28
I play for fun, when i go to the 40k gt i go to have a laugh, to meet up with friends to meet new people, to drink, to do the pub quiz, to play 40k for the playing not for the winning

Barador
17-01-2008, 19:30
I most certainley play for fun.

I much prefer a good narrative to go with the game rather than just for winning thats why i will never go to tournements.

Lord_Squinty
17-01-2008, 19:33
Same. But it isn´t much of a game if the outcome is never in doubt from start. Losing or winning all the time = no fun. Close fought games = the sex

That is why I play WH40K not APOC, since that game doesn´t have much support for balance except points.

Aaah, but the sex is ALWAYS > close games...

CommisarMolotov
17-01-2008, 19:36
Aaah, but the sex is ALWAYS > close games...

Oh, Squinty...if only that were true!

Keadaen
17-01-2008, 19:38
I play by the rules and the rules say play for fun, thus answer your query.

Lord_Squinty
17-01-2008, 19:45
Oh, Squinty...if only that were true!

LOL,

Then you've either had some REALLY good games or some REALLY bad sex...

:D

C'mon - even the bad sex is better than toy soldiers.. *most of the time* :angel:

Marinox
17-01-2008, 19:46
i love how everyone plays for fluff and fun and puppies and rainbows... and competition and strategery is the devil...

but everyone else around them just plays to win. every time this topic pops up it's the same story

where are all these horrible people? shouldn't it stand to reason that there should be just as many topics about people hating to play fluff armies...?

Baltar
17-01-2008, 19:50
I play for fun, but I REALLY LIKE TO WIN.

I would feel bad if I was slaughtering a guy and he wasn't having fun. But as long as we are both enjoying it, I definitely want to trounce the other guy.

I tend to get pissed when the other guy is whipping my ass, and he is just loving it hard, bragging about how well his army is doing.

Democratus
17-01-2008, 19:56
If either player in a game isn't playing to win, then the game isn't fun. I (and my league-mates) only enjoy games where both people bring their A-game and challenge each other tactically.

If someone comes to a game and playes to lose, there is no enjoyment or satisfaction.

IceWind
17-01-2008, 20:06
For fun, definately.
Though it's priceless to see Space Marines beaten up by the humble guardsmen :D

boogle
17-01-2008, 20:08
For fun every single time, hence my prediliction for picking armies and taking the most underpowered stuff i can

Baltar
17-01-2008, 20:09
For fun, definately.
Though it's priceless to see Space Marines beaten up by the humble guardsmen :D

It happens often enough. Except when those space marines have spikes and worship a certain god of slaughter named Khorne.

Khornies & milk
17-01-2008, 20:18
I play for the FUN of it, but I make a concerted effort to win. The aim of each battle is to beat the enemy so a certain amount of competitiveness is always in the air.
Whayever the outcome, it should be a fun experience for all concerned, otherwise what's the point.

MALICIOUS LOGIC
17-01-2008, 20:19
I play for fun. But I have fun playing against people who are hard to beat. (And likewise, I have top-tier tournament armies). I don’t understand why that Tau player is “boring” to you. I’d love to play him.

Why on earth would you play against “easy” armies? Does that make you feel better just because you won? Even if you know you’re playing against a sub-par player/army?....

~Logic

Caboose123
17-01-2008, 20:25
People who dont play for fun dont like this forum ^^
look at the poll

I play for fun (as ive said) but, its not really playing if im slaughtered if i lose by turn 2, or even before the game...is it?


IT IS dammit! Laugh at your poor performance, if you cant laugh at yourself who can you laugh at? Take solice in the fact that you enjoyed playing the game. Not enjoying curshing opponents. Great defeats can be better than close games!
~Rant over :)

slasher
17-01-2008, 21:39
Well you could hardly say i play to win - who else takes a 1500 point eldar aspect army with NO ARMOUR...... against guard.

result I was masacared.....

Oh and no MCs eithor

scratchbuilt
17-01-2008, 22:03
It is odd to assume these are opposed in any way. I would say they have a positive relationship. Football is fun, you enjoy football by attempting to play well.

dblaz3r
17-01-2008, 22:03
Playing, winning, losing, it's all fun with toys to me :)

Damien 1427
17-01-2008, 22:14
For fun. I'd rather have my **** handed to me but have a laugh than get a decisive win and have a dull game.

Depends on the opponent, really. WAACers can be a laugh, fluff gamers can be dull as dishwater.

Meriwether
17-01-2008, 22:22
I can't decide whether or not this poll is offensive or ridiculous.

I always play to win. I always play to win against people who are also playing to win, because everyone plays to win, even those who are playing for 'fun'. Supposing you could actually find some people who play to lose, why would it be any fun to play against them? Isn't the challenge of besting your opponent a major factor in a competitive game?

I always play for fun. It's a frikkin' game, and if I'm not having fun, why the heck don't I get another hobby?

I do not: cheat, gloat, talk smack (except with my brother), or bring my most brutal army lists against noobs.
I do: help my opponent if they aren't as good as I am, remind them to do things (like shoot with squad X) if they forget, let them go back and take psychic tests even though they've already moved half their models, etc.

Conclusion: The poll is most absolutely offensive _and_ ridiculous. Good thing I'm hard to offend, and like to laugh at the ridiculous. :D

Meri

VetSgtNamaan
17-01-2008, 22:25
It would depend on whether or not I paid to play. If I am in a tournament and spent money to be there they yeah I am there to win. If it is a casual game on games night or another time they it is all about making sure both players are having fun.

boogaloo
17-01-2008, 22:36
Well i play to have fun... but every once in a while i set up some little side objective where even if i lose... really i won. Like my buddies dag nab invincible daemon prince (old dex) After it walked through my army about 3 times i jsut wanted to kill it... i didn't really care what happened to my army as long as that damned monstrosity just got sent back to the warp! (p.s. damned not a swear, the thing was actually damned)

So it all starts as fun and games, untill i get severely trounced a few times by a certain unit and then you'd better believe that unit is going down! (in the most fun way possible :D)

Ddraiglais
17-01-2008, 22:42
I don't differentiate between the two. It is fun to play to win. I am not a win at all cost player, but I will field what I see as the best army possible (that's still fluff). I will use the best strategy that I can come up with. If I don't win, I'm not going to throw a fit though.

I was into sports a lot when I was younger. I always played to win, but still had fun if I/my team didn't. I don't see how you can play any game and not try to win. That's what competition is, and even Monopoly is competition.

BigWeirdCreature
17-01-2008, 22:48
I play to win, because winning is fun. I do enjoy crushing opposing armies, I get a laugh out of it. The best is using the marine trait d6 roll to get an extra turn just so that I can wipe someone to the man, it's priceless.

Imperialis_Dominatus
18-01-2008, 00:47
I'm in the hobby for fun. And the creative aspect.

I play the game to win. But I attempt to make the journey fun. It's not as simple as "Fun or Win?" Both, foolz. I do what I want.

Paul Nexus
18-01-2008, 00:47
I like to win, but not at the expense of fun. I prefere to have fluffy, themed or characterful lists than powergame ones. I like to intentionally limit myself to fit the idea I have for my army. That is fun for me, and if I win then it's all the more enjoyable.

He who is doom
18-01-2008, 00:59
i play for fun but in the end it usually ends up that i win because it is fun

Thylacine
18-01-2008, 01:29
I play the game for fun, I like to win, but winning is not everything, I have enjoyed a number of the games that I have lost. Loosing a game can be a learning experience, you don't feel as good as you do with a win. However, if the game was hard fought, a real back and forth tussle then the loss is easily accepted.

Sadly for some winning is everything, their game can consist of cheating, bullying, sledging or just making up over the top lists and justifying their list by saying things like; "I am a tactician first and gamer second", or "My list is legal."

I see more and more power-gaming killer-lists, go to any tournament and they are there, their owners seem to seek out their own kind and enjoy a good round of self congratulatory back-slapping. They are ever defensive of each others list and say things like (using a well know Eldar list as an example) "Well a couple of power fists thrown at my Wraithguard and they are toast" accept that you units with the power fists will never get close to the Wraithguard because the multiple walking walls of death are too tough for most of your weapons to hurt. You would need 4's to hit and 6's to wound and they have a re-roll of their save, you don't. Then when they are in range they shoot back, possibly with re-rolls to hit and of course they are using a weapon that allows no save.

But their list is so legal and so good, that they will never give them up unless they swap it for one just as good and legal.

If we all took this approach to the game, GW would only ever sell one or two armies. Codex creep aside, some of the armies out there are just too easy for that type of player to make up killer lists. Lists that match their huge win-at-all-costs ego's.

Sorry if this is starting to sound like a rant, but the tournament season is starting and some of those lists are appearing on sites. Shamelessly they are touted as gloat, gloat look at my amazing wipe the table, army of death. To which their mates reply, 'so cool', 'lovely', 'you thought of everything' and 'look at that you managed to have 40% troops!'

Still we sign up and have a go, everyone has a chance to win, don't they?

:chrome:Thylacine:chrome:

Captin Korea!
18-01-2008, 01:32
Its fun to win and winng is fun.

AngryAngel
18-01-2008, 01:37
I play for fun. My lists I try and make solid but not cheesy. Fluffy, and not power gamerish. That said, I do enjoy to win when I can. I also with said balanced, and fluffy list try to make the best choices I can, and not make mistakes in use of my army. Even going so far as to do something brave, over something smart just to be in flavor of the army.

So I play for fun, and I normally don't mess around when it comes to strategy and unit use. However I do also enjoy to win, when I can.

AllisterCaine
18-01-2008, 01:40
play for fun of course, but i always try to win as long as it doesnt interfere with having fun in the game.

but you know those people when you just WANT to kick their ass? i have those moments too, in which the goal is to win, kick ass, and destroy.

The UnNamed One
18-01-2008, 01:47
I play for fun, but i play to win at the same time, but not at the expense of not having a fun game for me and my opponent, thats why i only run cheese lists against other cheese lists.

Hive Mind 33
18-01-2008, 01:50
Fun playing to win ruins any game IMO.

starlight
18-01-2008, 01:53
A) I try to win. :) I'm not sure I've met anyone who *doesn't* at least *try* to win...

B) I don't really *care* if I win. I mean we *are* talking about a game of toy soldiers after all...is *winning* really that important?:eyebrows:

C) An evening spent with mates rolling dice, laughing at terrible luck, and generally having fun is a win in my books any day. :D

dr.oetk3r
18-01-2008, 04:49
Some people find winning fun. Hence the creation of "cheese."

Nveci
18-01-2008, 05:11
Playing for fun is the way to go where I am. I don't have too many people to play (hard to seek them out with my schedule) with, and the army variations aren't much (IG, SM, SM, SM, Ork, and a few others). Since most games are at my house with friends, we try to do weird things with the army lists to make the games fun, or just modify the rules all together (squad based capture the flag!). It is nice to win, of course, but I don't mind losing when it has been a good game (or when something rediculous has happened that caused a loss...which is usually funny).

Triggerdog
18-01-2008, 05:40
hell I've been going to the chicago GT for the past 3 years just for fun. Not to win or anything like that, just to play 5 games in two days.

JustTony
18-01-2008, 05:40
Okay, I admit that I voted that "I play to win". However, let me qualify that. I prefer a good, tightly-fought battle that goes down to the last turn before deciding a winner. Losing every game is no fun, and neither is winning every game. I like the challange of matching wits with my tactical equals or better my superiors. Playing people who are better than you is how you improve, assuming good sportsmanship and similar interests in the quality of the game whether 40K or tiddlywinks. I enjoy teaching new players the intricacies of the game and I have been known to attempt to guide a new player into effective tactics which will win against what I'm playing.

When all is said and done and the game is over, a strong handshake across the table and "Great Game" is the true reward, that and the libation of choice afterwards.

Now I will also admit to this: IF you are playing in an organized tourney with a paid entry fee and with set senarios and victory conditions and the best goodies for the winner, THEN it is play to win and if that means crushing the opponent, then so be it. At that specific venue everyone should be focused on the same goal. In pro sports, EVERY team begins the year going for the championship. Losing the Superbowl can be the worst thing ever, so play to win.

Otherwise the game is the thing and that should mean an enjoyable time for ALL.


Peace: through superior firepower.

MasterDecoy
18-01-2008, 06:05
I play to win, but in a way that is fair. I always remind my opponents of the things they have avaible ( I would win a ton more games if I kept my mouth shut, but that wouldnt be fair).

A fair game is a great game, By the book and to the numbers as best I can. Just remeber though, Im just as likely to say, that guy cant rally cause he's within 6" of me, as you passed the regrouping test even though you rolled 1 over becouse they cant see any of my guys.

Ive said it before, cheese armys only work becouse they are attempting to utilize some sort of weekness they belive exists in the game mechanics. A proper understanding of how it works can easily unglue them. If Im playing a power gamer, I insist everything is done slowly so I can check that everything is legal. (also if Im to play them, they need to bring their codex, f'ed if Im gonna play someone who is attempting to WAAC without even proving such rules exist.)

a guy with a gun
18-01-2008, 06:23
Both. And I try to respect my opponent as well.

alphastealer
18-01-2008, 08:27
I play for both reasons (to win and for fun). In fact I would not play if it were only mindless fun with no competition or only competition and no fun. The two go together.

I like to try and win but want to win based on superior skill, not uber cheezy power lists, cheating or exploiting grey areas. If a guy is 6.2 from me and he wants to charge and it looks like it could go either way, I let him do it. Same for shooting range. I will only get firm if it is more than 1 inch too far away.

I don't bother D6 for a rule dispute. If I know I am right but he is being pig headed about then, then he can just do it. I am not aa walk over but some find the game is more fun for me when I can still win despite these disputable issues of rule or distance or even line of sight.

It is a great feeling though to beat a cheezy rule bent fanatic who argues everything he doesn't understand. I don't mind playing these people as I know from the outset that I am the underdog with my balanced force. It is actually more fun, since there is less expectation for me to win, and more pressure on him if he loses with such a kick ass list.

I also tend to take gambles in the game which sometimes work, other times don't, but for me that is fun. It is amazing how often the risky maneuver can catch your opponent off guard.

I ask only that my opponents be respectful of me and my models like I am of them and theirs and that we both try to win within the rules. Know the rules, know your codex and don't take too long per turn and I am always up for a good hard game.

inquisitor solarris
18-01-2008, 08:30
I play for fun but i do get very peeved when my loss count is increasing or when someone is doing things (mostly cheating or strecthing their movements) for their own benefits.

twj
18-01-2008, 11:39
Like most people, I play for fun. However, a win every now and then is good but not as important as a good (close) game... Though, the game is only as good as your opponent.

Gorbad Ironclaw
18-01-2008, 11:44
If you are playing to win... then you need a different HOBBY!


Do the two things have to exclude one another?

I certainly do try to win when I play, the game isn't really all that fun if both players isn't actually trying to win.

However, I most certainly also play to have fun, and I win or lose I can have a great game. I lost the game I had last night, but I certainly had fun.

I think you need both. If you honestly don't care what the result of the game is, why bother playing? But that's not to say that you only have to care about winning.

Just that there is a middle ground where most of us are, but that seems to be 'forgotten' in this kind of discussions.

infernus31
18-01-2008, 11:54
Play for fun, winning is always like icing on the cake but as I and my opponent have fun playing thats all that matters.

Fixer
18-01-2008, 12:00
A combination for me. I always play with the goal of winning and try to do that to the best of my abilities but it's the game that matters and not the outcome.

I do get depressed occasionally when the dice utterly rebel against me and my elite army of space marines manage to dismally fail at even the most basic and simple of tasks (I have a chaplain that seems to have a severe allergy to tau combat drones and endlessly dies to them in close combat) but most of the time I generally laugh it off. I don't like long arguments about rules or things and I wont get into long heated arguments about rules or junk so I'd like to think I'm a fun opponent to play against in general.

I guess what I enjoy most of all is playing against good friendly opponents and close fought games even moreso.

I'd rather lose to a player that's had fun, laughed about things and been relaxed enough that we both let each other move units when we've forgotten rather than play and beat a horrible jackass that argues about every ******* movement or charge and uses ruler which gently nudges your models back from assault range when he 'checks' then bitches about how a plasma pistol downs a Falcon and kills everyone inside and THEN accuses me of using rigged dice when I was using his OWN DICE to make those rolls.

Yes Mr tournament playing Tri-Falcon Eldar player, I'm talking about you. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE >:|

So yes. Play to win but have a fun game doing it and also (hopefully) your opponent enjoys the game as well.

Nurglitch_PS
18-01-2008, 12:15
Play for fun to win.

Sgt Biffo
18-01-2008, 12:43
If your not playing to win then your doing your opponent a dis-service; winning a game that your opponent has intentionally thrown isn't really a win.

Grand Master Raziel
18-01-2008, 13:28
I try to make interesting, themed army lists, then play them to the best of my ability. Some of the lists I've made are freaking hopeless, like the Radical Daemonhunters with inducted IG list I'm currently using. Still, I enjoy using them, even as my inducted IG are getting massacred.

Still, it's been my observation that, to some people, winning is more important than fun. Or, perhaps more accurately, they can't have fun unless they win, and the bigger they win the better. The other day I played against a DE player using a Raider-rush army with the aforementioned Radical DH+Inducted IG list. It took him about 2 turns to smoke half my army, one to get in position, and the other to dump out units, shoot, and charge. Mercifully, the store was closing and we had to pack up after that, but I've often wondered after that: did the experience really make him feel all that good? Was that really all that much fun for him? I can't see why you'd play an army like that unless you have a cumpulsive need to win all the time.

KaldCB
18-01-2008, 13:30
there should be a "both" box in the poll...
winning is fun, losing can be fun too, but mostly if the game have som dramatic events.

Glennie
18-01-2008, 16:22
I play to win but I make sure not to let that get in the way of having fun. I also take into account my opponent, some of them want a competitive game so I try to make it challenging for them and others prefer to relax during a game and I adjust my attitude accordingly.

Groksnag
18-01-2008, 16:27
I'm too competitive to play for just fun. I play to win. I still try to have fun while playing because honestly, where's the fun if your list is really cheesy and unbeatable? It takes away the point of winning.

So for me, I play to win.

Earthbeard
18-01-2008, 16:33
For Fun everytime.

Kinsley
18-01-2008, 17:00
I play for fun but winning is nice sometimes to :) I'm also somewhat choosy as to who I'll play in a casual setting which has earned me some flak, but oh well.

VetSgtNamaan
18-01-2008, 17:00
I end up teaching alot of kids how to play at the local indie. So in that venue I am not worried about the win mostly making sure they have a good time and learn the rules. To keep them interested requires a challenge without the challenge being to huge. If I just sit down and roll over a 9 yr old in two turns they are not really likely to stick with the game. Though as I stated before in a tourney atmosphere the gloves do come off.

Stella Cadente
18-01-2008, 17:04
I play for fun and fluff..............which means I've won 10 games out of 1500+
BUT I've decided to say sod it to Fun and fluff, and just play to win from now on, why should I put hours of effort into my lists to make them fair and balanced, when nobody else I play can be arsed to do the same, screw them, I may as well power game, whats the point in being a nice person when its not appreciated?
and don't gimme that "you'll never make friends that way" BS response, I never made friends being nice anyway

Kaptin Gavrin
18-01-2008, 17:06
I play to win, but I'm less likely to be upset about losing outside of a tourney.

This is a game, with winners and losers. Anyone who claims they don't try to win is lying. If they're not, then THEY need to find a new hobby.

I remember when GW games were for real gamers. Sometime in the late 90's, early 2000's, GW decided that it was a good idea to force people to lose their manhood to play the games so it was easier for children to cope with. It's created a culture of people who claim it's all for fun, don't worry about losing, be "nice" to each other, don't use a potent army list, blah blah blah. If the game was played the way it should be, everyone would have fun. Stop claiming fun and winning are two separate and mutually exclusive things. This is why Privateer Press is growing. The local PP community plays those games to win and pulls out all the stops. They're a lot healthier gaming community than the GW community, which keeps worrying about "cheesy lists" or people "playing to win" (which is the point of a bloody miniatures game!).

Grow up, people. You can win games and still be playing the game to enjoy yourself. And tell your opponents to stop being babies if they want to cry over losing. I don't spend $500 on gaming supplies so I can try to make someone else feel better, I do it to enjoy myself.

Meriwether
18-01-2008, 17:58
I play to win, but I don't get upset when I lose. If I know things are going down hill, I just try to do as much damage as possible on the way out.

Playing to win and being a good sportsman (and all-around nice person) are not mutually exclusive.

Thus, I reject the entire premise of the poll.

Meri

Grazzy
18-01-2008, 18:07
I play to win BUT i will not let this get in the way of a good game. Also, if i know i am playing some mates then i will put away the las/plas and play with whatever i like.

The Guy
18-01-2008, 18:59
Play to win.
If I play to win then so will my opponent.
If we both do then the match becomes more stimulating and challenging.
End result = fun

Griffin
18-01-2008, 18:59
I have a competitive streak a mile wide but I won't let it turn me into a ass. Fun before anything else, sometimes If your winning, doing things in character but not really tactically sound from a war games perspective is Hell of a Fun.

AngryAngel
18-01-2008, 22:13
I try to make interesting, themed army lists, then play them to the best of my ability. Some of the lists I've made are freaking hopeless, like the Radical Daemonhunters with inducted IG list I'm currently using. Still, I enjoy using them, even as my inducted IG are getting massacred.

Still, it's been my observation that, to some people, winning is more important than fun. Or, perhaps more accurately, they can't have fun unless they win, and the bigger they win the better. The other day I played against a DE player using a Raider-rush army with the aforementioned Radical DH+Inducted IG list. It took him about 2 turns to smoke half my army, one to get in position, and the other to dump out units, shoot, and charge. Mercifully, the store was closing and we had to pack up after that, but I've often wondered after that: did the experience really make him feel all that good? Was that really all that much fun for him? I can't see why you'd play an army like that unless you have a cumpulsive need to win all the time.

I have a friend, an old friend of mine, great guy for everything but games. He's just like that, win at all costs. If he isn't winning, its because of bad luck, or your good luck and you hear about it the whole game. Then if you win, its because of that luck, if you lose his great skill came back even over your good luck and his bad.

He's even gone so far as to say if he isn't winning a game, or hasn't won. It's a waste of his time. So yeah I can bet that one guy had all the fun he could handle.

Lord_Squinty
18-01-2008, 22:42
Poll is broken.

155 fun to 23 win?

Looks like some people aren't being very honest...

Everybody plays to win, its HOW they play that makes the game fun - thats why the poll's broken.
If your'e playing connect 4 (or 4-in-a-row or whatever you call it) you TRY to win by getting four in a row?? no? Or do you just make pretty patterns for fun?

I could repeat the analogy for many other 'regular' games - but you get the point.

If so many players ARE playing purely for fun and not trying to win, then why are the tactics, rules, and army list threads so busy?

slamcannon
18-01-2008, 22:51
The goal of the game is to win, but it's the goal that's important, not the winning.

Hulkster
18-01-2008, 22:56
I used to play to win

but I have since grown up and now only play for fun

in fact, because Tau are boring to play with now, I am going to sell my MASSIVE Tau army

Soulless Enigma
18-01-2008, 22:58
For fun. Definately for fun. For the moments when the impossible happens. Like umm...
I'm sure I'll think of one example eventually.

Emperor's Avenger
19-01-2008, 14:16
Sorry, i don't think I made the question very clear. Obviously I try to win when playing (who doesn't), but the reason for playing is fun. The "To win" choice is for those who play only to win (i.e. fun doesn't even enter the equation).

Grand Master Raziel
19-01-2008, 16:18
Poll is broken.

155 fun to 23 win?

Looks like some people aren't being very honest...

Everybody plays to win, its HOW they play that makes the game fun - thats why the poll's broken.

I think it's more accurate to say that the poll could be worded better, or that responders are interpreting it to mean different things. I think the place where players reveal themselves to be either relaxed, friendly games or cutthroat WAAC-types isn't so much at the playing table as in the list-writing phase. Both types will try and win once models hit table. However, the for-fun type won't make as much of a point of squeezing every last bit of effectiveness into a list as a WAAC-type. So, the for-fun type will come to the table with a list that's reasonable, but with theme being a greater design consideration than power. A WAAC-type comes to the table with an undisguised power list.

Caboose123
19-01-2008, 18:05
Or maybe warseer is full of "nice" gamers who mostly enjoy playing for fun?

Imperialis_Dominatus
19-01-2008, 18:48
Or maybe warseer is full of "nice" gamers who mostly enjoy playing for fun?

Ha. Ha. Ha.

I play to win. I have fun. I do my damndest to make sure my opponent has fun. But I play to win. So there, call me a powergaming WAAC jackass, I play games to win them. Or to get better in order to win later games, in the case of a loss.

Meriwether
19-01-2008, 23:21
Sorry, i don't think I made the question very clear. Obviously I try to win when playing (who doesn't), but the reason for playing is fun. The "To win" choice is for those who play only to win (i.e. fun doesn't even enter the equation).

What a ridiculous question, then. Who plays a game for any reason other than to have fun?

Meri

Grimtuff
19-01-2008, 23:23
What a ridiculous question, then. Who plays a game for any reason other than to have fun?

Meri

Read my sig ;) Therein lies the whole confusion of this thread.

silence
19-01-2008, 23:29
Some of my most memorable games are ones that I have lost. I definately play for fun.

squeekenator
19-01-2008, 23:42
Both personally, but more fun. I optimise my army, but I make sure that I never use a tournament staple list. I tend to win most of my games (in fact, my Tyranids (gaunt swarm, before anyone jumps on me) have a 100% win rate in about 20 games), but I'm not too fussed about it. I don't like it when I lose because of bad rolls, but EXTREMELY bad rolls are great fun on the receiving end. My tooled-up Chaplain and 3rd edition Aun'Shi dueling for pretty much the whole game before a gun drone got through my 2+ save is one incident I shall always remember.

I'm used to winning as well, so the excitement of a successful game has lost its oomph. I'm now more interested in having fun, although I still prefer having fun while winning. However, I hate winning simply due to bad luck. If my opponent rolls horribly or I roll really well, I feel just as annoyed as they do.

VetSgtNamaan
19-01-2008, 23:51
I think it is pretty fun how people that do not know me are accusing me of lying when I say I play for fun. If I needed to build my ego with wins I sure as heck would have picked a cheaper hobby. :) But sweeping generalizations are the norm when people are annonymous, I am pretty sure we all play for different reasons and I know exactly what those reasons are for me.

Lord_Squinty
20-01-2008, 01:15
Both personally, but more fun. I optimise my army,

And by that reasoning - surely you play to win then? if you optimise your army for what other reason? colour scheme?
This is not a dig at you btw, more a demonstration as to how the poll is broken and should have been worded better.

99% of gamers should have voted - play to win.
Its a GAME!! - thats the aim of the game.
To sound like a broken record - Its HOW you PLAY the game that determines how much fun you or your opponent has.

Dragonlv8
20-01-2008, 01:20
I play for fun but its not really fun lossing non stop, so now im going to start playing to win :)

Laughingmonk
20-01-2008, 02:01
I'm a Hardcore Hobbyist and a casual gamer. Does that answer your question?

So yes, I play to win, but I don't dwell on it solely. My armies are effective, but they are not 100% optimized, because i would rather spend more time putting together and painting terrain and models, since, you know, that is why we play this game.

If one plays solely for teh wiN, there are better things to play, like chess or any casino game, where you can actually win money and prestige.

Frankly, anyone can put together a net list and then stomp his freinds with it (provided they know howto use it, and frankly, alot of these uber lists are pretty easy to use). But alot of gamers won't spend the money to get the correct models, nor even have a desire to use them in game.

For example, I have over 3500 points of eldar, and it is well within my ability and means to bring out the tri falcon list of doom. I never have, and I never will because it is a stupid list that preys on gamers who don't know how to counter it (which is alot of people). It's an "I win" Button against two of my friends. Furthermore, I always take a maxed unit of swooping hawks. I am fully aware this is not on optimized unit. i still take. It gives me great pleasure figuring out new uses for them.

So yes, I play to win, but the key word is PLAY. I don't focus on utterly humiliating my opponent, nor do I believe that 40k should be the stage of power struggles between two grown adults (I KNOW most of you know what i'm talking about, you know, when the game gets stupid personal and therefore, ruined.)

the1stpip
20-01-2008, 11:23
As Lord Squinty and Grimtuff say, I play to win, but I try to make sure my opponent is still enjoying themselves.

And that is the crux of it. Like in any relationship, you should ensure your opponent is having a good time, and he should be ensuring you are having a good time.

Josef Bugman
20-01-2008, 11:30
I play for fun but the people I usually play (not mentioning any names) play to win.

Grimtuff
20-01-2008, 11:33
I play for fun but the people I usually play (not mentioning any names) play to win.

Can we just establish something here? EVERYONE plays to win, you do not go into a game thinking "I really want to lose this", have a read of my sig to see what *should* have been asked in this thread.

A gamer who plays for fun=/=someone who consistently loses by their own consent.

f2k
20-01-2008, 12:02
I play to have fun. Og course, I also want to win. But a victory is worth nothing if I didn't have fun while playing.

I would rather take a weak, but fun, army than I would take a hard-as-nails army...

Cirrus the Blue
20-01-2008, 12:16
i love how everyone plays for fluff and fun and puppies and rainbows... and competition and strategery is the devil...

but everyone else around them just plays to win. every time this topic pops up it's the same story

where are all these horrible people? shouldn't it stand to reason that there should be just as many topics about people hating to play fluff armies...?

It's arguably the same case as drunk driving, I'm thinking. Nobody does it, of course, but somehow police video shows always seem to have plenty of juicy drunk driving footage, no? Go figure how that could possibly happen.

Then again, it could very well be that most people on this particular forum do in fact just like to play for kicks and the social activity of the hobby and all the super competitive ones stick to other forums like Bolter/Chainsword, etc. *shrug*

- Cirrus

Rider-Of-Kurnous
20-01-2008, 13:55
I play for fun but the people I usually play (not mentioning any names) play to win.

Lol that may be me. Seriously I play for fun. But the fun comes in the challenge. The challenge is to win.
Now if you are both playing a complete and utter power gaming force, then as far as I see you both have a challenge.
If you are both playing an absolutely terrible list, then you will both have a challenge.
If one has a bad list and the other has a power list then niether one will have fun. SO as long as you both have the same type of list you can both ahve fun, THE problem is having the co-ordination to both have the same list.

So I play for fun and to win!

Rider-

IG_hopeful
20-01-2008, 16:27
A gamer who plays for fun=/=someone who consistently loses by their own consent.

And if you think this about other people who play for fun/enjoyment of the game, Then you must be an annoying power-gamer. It's you people who take the fun out of the game.

Marshal Argos
20-01-2008, 16:57
99% of gamers should have voted - play to win.
Its a GAME!! - thats the aim of the game.


But that's your point of view.

On saturday morning on the way to the local GW I don't think about winning or loosing. I think about who's gonna be there, and if anyone wants a game. When i start the game I could care less if I win or loose, In fact I'll base some of my decisions during the game so that the game is more fun, even if by doing it I know I'm going to loose. If it makes things "fun" for me and my opponent, than that's what matters.

So, I play for fun.

kairous
20-01-2008, 17:03
depends who im playing and what army im using, i mean when i get around to trying orks i will probably be playing for fun.
But when i use my CSM i generally play to win:)

the1stpip
20-01-2008, 18:04
I'm not sure if people are getting the point here.

Most people like to win, it is how you win that matters.

If you win by having a powerful list, by being picky (you are an 1/8th of an inch out) or by pure arrogance, then you may have won, but I doubt you will play that person again.

If you win, while having friendly banter, a good laugh and have a thoroughly enjoyable afternoon, then you have still won, but both players have enjoyed themselves.

If you hadn't realised, the latter of the two choices is the one you should be aiming for.

Imperialis_Dominatus
20-01-2008, 22:31
I'm not sure if people are getting the point here.

Most people like to win, it is how you win that matters.

If you win by having a powerful list, by being picky (you are an 1/8th of an inch out) or by pure arrogance, then you may have won, but I doubt you will play that person again.

If you win, while having friendly banter, a good laugh and have a thoroughly enjoyable afternoon, then you have still won, but both players have enjoyed themselves.

If you hadn't realised, the latter of the two choices is the one you should be aiming for.

So, to be clear, the options in the poll should have been:

1) I play for fun! Even if I try to win...

2) I'm a powergaming *******! Screw fun...

3) I really don't care!

Is that about it?

Snackes
21-01-2008, 14:31
I play for fun, and it gets even more fun if I win.

Rirekon
21-01-2008, 14:39
What is it that whenever people talk about playing to win the idea of "crushing your miserable opponent's core belief in life and the universe" seems to pop up?
I certainly don't play to lose games, I write all my lists to be competitive and will attempt to do my best with them. However I still manage to have fun and would like to think my opponents have fun too.
Playing to win and playing for fun are not mutually exclusive.

f2k
21-01-2008, 15:17
Playing to win and playing for fun are not mutually exclusive.

Certainly not. But unfortunately, some people believe that you have to win in order to have fun.

azimaith
21-01-2008, 15:19
As opposed to playing for misery or playing to lose?

We all play to have fun. Some people don't play for everyone to have fun.

If you don't play to win I don't want to play you, your boring then, no challenge. It won't be fun for me, and I'd guess it won't be fun for you.

Playing to win is what everyone should be doing, just don't play to win at all costs.

Rirekon
21-01-2008, 15:21
Certainly not. But unfortunately, some people believe that you have to win in order to have fun.

That still doesn't make it mutually exclusive even for that sub-set of people. Also if being successful is what makes those people happy then that's what the hobby means to them, the important factor isn't that them winning is fun for them, but that it doesn't affect your fun.

AmBlam
21-01-2008, 16:52
I think both is the only real answer but playing to win is a part of playing for fun.

intellectawe
21-01-2008, 18:25
I voted Play to Win.

This is largely due to all you liars out there.

Just check out the rules forums and see how heated it can get. Rules forums kinda prove people just want to win. If they didn't care, and just wanted to have fun, they wouldn't need the opinion of strangers on the internet. They could just ask their friends if something was ok.

f2k
21-01-2008, 19:00
That still doesn't make it mutually exclusive even for that sub-set of people. Also if being successful is what makes those people happy then that's what the hobby means to them, the important factor isn't that them winning is fun for them, but that it doesn't affect your fun.

Indeed. Sadly, most of the people I've played, who were like that, didn't give a damn about my fun. As long as they won, they couldn't care less about anything else.

CannedLaughter
21-01-2008, 19:57
I play to win and have fun doing so.

Archangel_Ruined
21-01-2008, 22:38
Play to win, have fun doing it. I don't mind losing if everyone has fun, but if you don't intend to win when you deploy the army I don't get the point. This doesn't excuse beardy tournament lists in store though.

nightshade_eyes
22-01-2008, 02:23
I voted "play to win".

I prefer to play against people with the same goal; I enjoy competitive games of 40k (and WFB). What I don't like is the people that whine about others being competitive. From experience, these same people that whine spend more time complaining and "arm chair quarter-backing" than they do actually playing the game. And when they do play, they expect people to play the game for their enjoyment first (aka play the game the way the they think it ought to be played).

Aside from the total jerks, which come in both the WAAC and fluffy player varieties, I find that competitive players are much more fun to play and chat with. Fluff players I found to be arrogant and elitist.

My advice, play with people you enjoy playing with. Others are enjoying the game playing it the way they like with players they enjoy playing with.

"playing to win" against rookies is bad form though. :mad:

Captain Micha
22-01-2008, 02:28
I play for both. Half of the fun is winning. But winning means nothing if you are not having fun.

Meriwether
22-01-2008, 14:51
Read my sig ;) Therein lies the whole confusion of this thread.

Indeed!


I think it is pretty fun how people that do not know me are accusing me of lying when I say I play for fun. If I needed to build my ego with wins I sure as heck would have picked a cheaper hobby. :) But sweeping generalizations are the norm when people are annonymous, I am pretty sure we all play for different reasons and I know exactly what those reasons are for me.

Well, as the stater of the sweeping generalization, I stand by my statement. If you're not trying to win, you're doing your opponent a disservice. Do you throw games when it looks like you might win?

Meri

JodiePascal
22-01-2008, 14:58
I play Orks in both 40k and Fantasy, so...win or lose, I always have fun!!!

Capitán Sánchez
22-01-2008, 15:03
I never win, so it's been a long time since I decided to play for fun. :p


Thank you

Grand Warlord
22-01-2008, 15:51
the group i play with tends to play more to win, but with my school and work schedule I tend to shoot for fun.

Zapherion
22-01-2008, 15:59
if you dont play to win then you play to lose...and losing isnt fun...in all honesty its a dumb question

whiteperegrine
22-01-2008, 16:39
when I played, played purely for fun....if I won, so be it. most of the time though I lost given I didnt "tool up" and "minmax". as such, those style armies ate me for lunch. ah well...~

f2k
22-01-2008, 17:54
if you dont play to win then you play to lose...and losing isnt fun...in all honesty its a dumb question

You know, it is possible to lose and still have a good time...

Gaftra
22-01-2008, 18:31
the best way i heard it is this.

The purpose of the game is to have fun, the objective of the game is to win.
I think that is true of pretty much all games, though ive met plenty of people who cant have fun if they arent winning or the game isnt being played their way.

Vishok
22-01-2008, 18:42
Play to win, for fun.

LittleLeadMen
22-01-2008, 18:54
You know, it is possible to lose and still have a good time...
Yeah, if you're a masochist. ;) Who goes into any game or competition looking to lose?

Caboose123
22-01-2008, 20:08
No, you go into the game looking to have a good time, winning or losing doesnt matter, not activley seeking a loss because its more fun.

This thread is strange, the poll shows that most people play for fun, but the only people who post are those who play to win (although they justify it). Perhaps its worded badly.

Is the question (as one guys sig put it so well) about the objective of the game or the purpose of the game? It seems very simple...

IG_hopeful
22-01-2008, 21:49
If you don't play to win I don't want to play you, your boring then, no challenge. It won't be fun for me, and I'd guess it won't be fun for you.

Sorry you feel that way. I know we'll never face each other, but if I did then maybe I should use a DW cheese army from h*ll if I am "suppose" to try and win a game?

Keep dreaming!. I play for fun and enjoy the games I play regardless how bad I get beat from having a meager 25 - 26 man army of terminators. vs an army twice to three times the size.

Stella Cadente
22-01-2008, 22:05
Perhaps its worded badly.
I agree, I think it should say
1: do you play for fun, win or lose it makes no difference to you, as long as both parties have a good time?
2: are you a powergaming git who doesn't care about anyones enjoyment except your own?

in this situation I think most people I know would vot 2 unfortunatly

Havock
22-01-2008, 22:10
Who's going to actually say:
"Actually I play to crush my opponents, the more they cry, the more im satisfied. I like the smug satisfaction of massacering opponents with my cheesy list of unstoppable ness. RAW is cheating, as a game system we have to accept whats written; GO RAI!!! ..... You smell :D"

Seriously? The game is for fun, anyone else can probably be at least partially included in the above.

I do. I also make a habit of eating babies after a good thrashing, just because :p

azimaith
22-01-2008, 22:12
If you don't try to win your boring to play against. Who wants to play against someone who just moves models at random and doesn't bother considering what hes shooting at. It would be like playing a rock.

So apparently IG hopeful you play your army by just selecting random things, ignoring all the objectives and unit effectiveness and rolling dice for any result.

"Oh heres a squad of guardsmen with lasguns, i'm going to shoot them at your land raider..."

"You know that won't do anything."

"I don't care!"

"Why don't you shoot your lascannon at it instead."

"Because I don't play to win you cheese monger."

IG_hopeful
22-01-2008, 23:00
Just becuase I have IG in my name doesn't mean I play them.. as stated I play DW..

With having a low number count of figs (26 in a 1700 point game) do you really think it is going to win veruses an army three times it's size like against Eldar?

Or did you forget that the DW had got nerf'ed with the lose of one of the two Assualt cannons they use to be able to take?

Nothing is going to change how I play. I may not win with a pretty much static army (as other players may also have) But nothing will take the enjoyment of playing away.. Whether you like it or not, I'm not changing "just" to make you happy

Getting back on track...

azimaith
22-01-2008, 23:06
Just becuase I have IG in my name doesn't mean I play them.. as stated I play DW..

Perhaps you are not aware that examples need not pertain directly to the armies you use but rather function to prove a broad point by analogy.



With having a low number count of figs (26 in a 1700 point game) do you really think it is going to win veruses an army three times it's size like against Eldar?

If your facing 60 eldar in a 1700 point game they must have alot of guarians or not many tanks, both of which should be to your advantage.



Or did you forget that the DW had got nerf'ed with the lose of one of the two Assualt cannons they use to be able to take?

Boo hoo. If all your count on is assault cannons to win its no wonder why your having a bad run.



Nothing is going to change how I play. I may not win with a pretty much static army (as other players may also have) But nothing will take the enjoyment of playing away.. Whether you like it or not, I'm not changing "just" to make you happy
What makes you think I even care how you play your army. If you don't play to win games then your going to be a boring opponent because your army won't have any sort of direction on the battlefield. Your just rolling dice. You can roll dice without models. Hell why even bother shooting at enemies, after all, that would constitute attempting to win in a fashion, you are after all damaging enemy forces which generally makes winning easier. You should just skip every turn after you deploy since winning is not important. You'll get more games in.

IG_hopeful
22-01-2008, 23:19
Your post

*Yawns* I now leave this topic open to other as the prior post sems to have wandered on topic (into a personal discussion)

PM me if you want to continue this discussion, knowing full well it wont change how I play

Stella Cadente
22-01-2008, 23:39
So apparently IG hopeful you play your army by just selecting random things, ignoring all the objectives and unit effectiveness and rolling dice for any result.

"Oh heres a squad of guardsmen with lasguns, i'm going to shoot them at your land raider..."

"You know that won't do anything."

"I don't care!"

"Why don't you shoot your lascannon at it instead."

"Because I don't play to win you cheese monger."
thats not an example of NOT playing to win, thats an example of a player being a *****

so its a pointless idiotic example

Takitron
23-01-2008, 00:29
Winning is fun. As will all polls, this one doesnt have enough options. maybe you mean to say "Are you one of 'THOSE' guys who has to win to feel good about themselves" or "Are you man enough to lose graciously and have fun doing it" because I play to win (I believe I do anyway) but it doesnt always happen that way. Ive never had a bad game though.

Take that how you will

Warp_touched
23-01-2008, 00:38
I do play for fun, but I'll admit I'll throw in a super falcon or two. But really, half the fun for me and my opponent is watching all the shots that come their way. However, my most common opponent is a Tau player with 4 railguns...

I enjoy the games where everyone laughs when something big goes bad, or when the lone inquistor rapes an entire squad of banshees somehow. When everyone can enjoy the game, not matter whats going on, thats my kind of game.

azimaith
23-01-2008, 00:40
thats not an example of NOT playing to win, thats an example of a player being a *****

so its a pointless idiotic example

If your not playing to win then what the hell are you doing then. Your not going to be taking any action toward winning now are you.

Theres a difference between playing to win and playing to win at all costs. Nearly everyone plays to win, a few people make asses of themselves by playing to win at all costs.

Caboose123
23-01-2008, 00:45
If you don't try to win your boring to play against. Who wants to play against someone who just moves models at random and doesn't bother considering what hes shooting at. It would be like playing a rock.

So apparently IG hopeful you play your army by just selecting random things, ignoring all the objectives and unit effectiveness and rolling dice for any result.

"Oh heres a squad of guardsmen with lasguns, i'm going to shoot them at your land raider..."

"You know that won't do anything."

"I don't care!"

"Why don't you shoot your lascannon at it instead."

"Because I don't play to win you cheese monger."

This is just juvenile...
Playing for fun does not mean being an idiot, you can play competetivly while playing for fun.You take an army based on preference, balance and fluff (Justifying taking a beardy list is a different matter entirely...), not what guarantees victory (and people calling you names)

azimaith
23-01-2008, 00:56
This is just juvenile...
Playing for fun does not mean being an idiot, you can play competetivly while playing for fun.You take an army based on preference, balance and fluff (Justifying taking a beardy list is a different matter entirely...), not what guarantees victory (and people calling you names)

Your missing the point. Your playing 40k to win games, thats the objective. The point of playing 40k is to have fun.

The reason why your shooting/assualting/moving, is in an attempt to win.
The reason your playing at all is because attempting to win is fun.

Just because your actually trying to win a game of 40k doesn't make you a powergamer, it makes you a normal player.

You can take a fluffy army, a non cheesy list, and play a game of 40k and attempt to capture objectives/kill enemy units/win the game. Congrats you just played and won through the use of tactics to accomplish the games objective. You probably also had fun, as did your opponent in a challenging game.

Playing to win is not playing to win at all costs.

Just because you played the game and tried to win doesn't mean you acted like a jackass, broke rules, made bad army lists, or anything else.

Zapherion
23-01-2008, 00:59
sorry mate, but ive played against people who only play for fun, and ive got to admit that its seriously unentertaining as they make stupid moves that compromises their own position just because they just arent bothered about the result. i stand by my previous statement that if you dont play to win then you play to lose.

40K is a competative game and as such it should be treated in such. simply playing for fun may provide you with fun, but by easily allowing yourself to get beaten is unenjoyable for your opponent. Thus, if you only play for fun you should not only think of yourself, but of your opponent aswell

paddyalexander
23-01-2008, 00:59
The whole point of the game is to have fun playing it. The objective for each player in the game is to win whilst having fun.

"Win at any cost" players generly aren't that much fun to play against becuase the first thing that get "spent" is the fun aspect of the game.

I picked play for fun becuase thats my first priority in a game, that both I & my opponent both have fun. Secondary to this but just as important is to try to win. If I'm not playing to win the game then what exactly am I doing? Just moving my models around the table at random? Will my opponent enjoy playing against me in that situation?

Most of the best games I've had came down to the last dice roll. Most of the most fun moments occured becuase something unexpected happened (guardsmen gunning down an Avatar in one round of shooting, a single kroot winning CC against 7 marines and running them down... etc.). The best compliment I've recieved in this hobby is that I'm a fun person to play against.

IG_hopeful
23-01-2008, 01:05
sorry mate, but ive played against people who only play for fun, and ive got to admit that its seriously unentertaining as they make stupid moves that compromises their own position just because they just arent bothered about the result. i stand by my previous statement that if you dont play to win then you play to lose.

40K is a competative game and as such it should be treated in such. simply playing for fun may provide you with fun, but by easily allowing yourself to get beaten is unenjoyable for your opponent. Thus, if you only play for fun you should not only think of yourself, but of your opponent aswell

Oh okay then.. From now on That =2 armour save that Termies have will be treadted as a =2 Invun. save. That should give the people I play against a challenge..

Myself like the other players I face. play to enjoy the game

Imperialis_Dominatus
23-01-2008, 01:06
"Actually I play to crush my opponents, the more they cry, the more im satisfied. I like the smug satisfaction of massacering opponents with my cheesy list of unstoppable ness. RAW is cheating, as a game system we have to accept whats written; GO RAI!!! ..... You smell :D"

How'd you find that recording?

Wait... no, I never said it! NEVAR!


I used to play to win

but I have since grown up and now only play for fun

Thanks for implying that I'm an immature git.


Sorry, i don't think I made the question very clear. Obviously I try to win when playing (who doesn't), but the reason for playing is fun. The "To win" choice is for those who play only to win (i.e. fun doesn't even enter the equation).

Badly worded poll is badly worded, then.


And if you think this about other people who play for fun/enjoyment of the game, Then you must be an annoying power-gamer. It's you people who take the fun out of the game.

Er... do you realize that you've just entered the Guinness for that astounding leap to conclusion?


I play for both. Half of the fun is winning. But winning means nothing if you are not having fun.

Wise counsel, much like the sig mentioned earlier:

The objective is to win. The point is to have fun. The two should never be confused.


You know, it is possible to lose and still have a good time...

Yes, and I've done it. That does not mean I don't play to win. Nor does the fact that I play to win preclude me from having fun while losing. My mind isn't that one track (despite what the ladies may tell you).


*Yawns* I now leave this topic open to other as the prior post sems to have wandered on topic (into a personal discussion)

PM me if you want to continue this discussion, knowing full well it wont change how I play

Bye bye. I agree with Azimaith. But losing an argument on the Internet shouldn't knock anyone's self esteem down any number of pegs, so I'm happy that you're unfazed.


Oh okay then.. From now on That =2 armour save that Termies have will be treadted as a =2 Invun. save. That should give the people I play against a challenge..

And some posters thought Azimaith's example was ridiculous...


Myself like the other players I face. play to enjoy the game

But why does that preclude you from attempting to win?

azimaith
23-01-2008, 01:09
Exactly paddyalexander. Playing to win the game and to have fun are not mutually exclusive, in fact they're often totally inclusive.

If your not playing to win a game what the hell are you doing? Playing to lose? Just randomly rolling dice? Your army won't have any direction to it and won't be doing anything.

Playing to win is not the same thing as playing to win at all costs but for some reason people seem to be thinking the two are the same.

IG_hopeful
23-01-2008, 01:22
Exactly paddyalexander. Playing to win the game and to have fun are not mutually exclusive, <-But playing to beat the other player shows that you are nothing but a power-gammer..

If your not playing to win a game what the hell are you doing? <-Something you win-mongers know little of, and that is how to enoy a game.

Your army won't have any direction to it and won't be doing anything. The DW already dont have a direction to them, they are terminators. I'd like to see you come up with a 1700 fieldable DW army

Playing to win is not the same thing as playing to win at all costs but for some reason people seem to be thinking the two are the same <-Which they are..

azimaith
23-01-2008, 01:24
<-But plauing to beat the other player shows that you are nothing but a power-gammer..
No it doesn't. It just shows that your playing a game of 40k with someone else.



<-Something you win-mongers know little of, and that is how to enoy a game.

I enjoy my games and so do my opponents. I'm fairly convinced your a troll.



The DW already dont have a direction to them, they are terminators. I'd like to see you come up with a 1700 fieldable DW army

I certainly could. I've already got a fieldable 1000 points of death watch marines attached to my elysians with 4 squads.



<-Which they are..
No they aren't. Your obviously a troll trying to start a fight IG.

Imperialis_Dominatus
23-01-2008, 01:28
I bolded your responses for clarity.


Exactly paddyalexander. Playing to win the game and to have fun are not mutually exclusive, <-But playing to beat the other player shows that you are nothing but a power-gammer..

What?

Wait. What?

I'm sorry, my brain is leaking out of my ears. Are you trolling? Like, deliberately trying to sabotage this thread into a swirling meelee of insults and flaming?

Playing to defeat the other player in a game where there is often a clear winner and loser has nothing to do with being a powergamer. There's a distinction between being a good sport and being an ******. You confuse them as one when they are distinctly two.


If your not playing to win a game what the hell are you doing? <-Something you win-mongers know little of, and that is how to enoy a game.

See above. I really can't bring myself to even sympathize with your point of view anymore (which, despite being a win-monger :rolleyes: I tend to do well). I enjoy my games plenty, even when I lose; I play to win. Am I destroying your reality yet?



Playing to win is not the same thing as playing to win at all costs but for some reason people seem to be thinking the two are the same <-Which they are..

No. They are not the same thing. And I am now convinced that you are, indeed, a troll.

Caboose123
23-01-2008, 01:37
Lets clear some things up here;

A)
-You can play for fun and lose (does not mean being an idiot...)
-You can play for fun and win (through tactics...)

B)
-You can play to win and have fun (almost always through winning...)
-You can play to win and not have fun (Usually through losing...)

Are these points right?

Which of those 2 groups do you belong, if A vote for play for fun, if B vote play to win.

A bit more clarification on the poll there...

Imperialis_Dominatus
23-01-2008, 01:39
Lets clear some things up here;

A)
-You can play for fun and lose (does not mean being an idiot...)
-You can play for fun and win (through tactics...)

B)
-You can play to win and have fun (almost always through winning...)
-You can play to win and not have fun (Usually through losing...)

Are these points right?

Which of those 2 groups do you belong, if A vote for play for fun, if B vote play to win.

A bit more clarification on the poll there...

Not really, as the 'play to win' crowd is still stereotyped as the WAAC through these. I suggest that the poll not be voted on and a better set of poll options be introduced in a different thread.

azimaith
23-01-2008, 01:43
The problem is present in that one is listed "play to win"

Well if your not playing to win then what are you doing exactly?

Playing for fun is equally as senseless because just about everyone who plays does it to have fun.

Whats more accurate is:

Play to win, but make sure everyones having a good time while you do.

or

Play to win at all costs, screw everyone else.

I'm part of "Play to win and make sure everyons having a good time while you do." Just about everyone else is too. If you take any time to think about how to make an effective army or how to best use units in a game while not divorcing yourself completley from the fluff background you'd fall in here too.

Example:
During a game a group of mega armoured nobz are dead square across from a squad of space marine terminators in an apoc game with 6 players.
My nids exploded the enemy ork looted land raider (full of orkynaters) and the enemy exploded the space marine terminators land raider. Now while the rest of the ork army and the marine army went out and fought over objectives we all decided that we'd leave the orks in mega armor and terminators alone so they could fight.

We were still playing to win, but we were also playing to have fun. Sense wise, we would have just shot the ork mega armored nobz because they are so slow, but fun wise we wanted to see how it would turn out.

Gensuke626
23-01-2008, 03:17
Last night I sort of proved my play to have fun status...I rolled up an 'ere we go on a Weirdboy and Deep Struck him and the 27 slugga boyz he was attached to near the Tau Fireline...but I deviated onto a Firewarrior and...dey all died...

My friend and I ended up Laughing about it for a good 5 minutes before I delcared myself "King Uv Da Orkz"

But I agree With Azimaith...we all play to win, but the focus is important...win at all costs, or win while having a good time. I'll admit that I deep struck those boyz cause I figured he'd never be able to kill 27 orkz in 1 shooting phase...

Ulrig
23-01-2008, 03:29
play for fun mostly, but i love winning.

king-ace
23-01-2008, 03:47
Basically, you sit the battlesuits behind terrain, use the fire warriors to shoot at whatever and jump the suits out of and into cover. Nearly impossible for a none-deep-striking army to deal with. An easy win for him, but ever so dull for both players.

ah yeah, the classic battlesuit jump-shoot-jump tactics. Were you playing with WYSIWYG rules in a cityfight? Cause thats when they REALLY get ridiculous (You wont see them like...ever)

I think different people have different ways of having fun. In magic the gathering there are a few 'archetypes' of players

the johnnys:people who likes to do crazy complex stuff
the timmys:People who like to use excessive stuff
the spikes:people who likes to do things efficiently
the vorthos'es:people who go for flavour or fluff

its the same as in warhammer i guess (even though im new to the game). Some people like to deny their opponent of any chance of confronting them directly (like some tau players and to a verry lesser extent, some catachan players)

some like to go crazy and overwhelm their opponent with nid swarms, or multiple fexes (which i learned isnt that scary when youre using a catachan captain with powerfist)

bottom line is, different people have different playing styles they prefer, but they all think its fun. Some think winning is fun (and come on, dont tell me it isnt), some think making fluffy underpowered army is fun (kudos to them, they keep the hobby more friendly)

i like to look at it this way. If youre making a fluffy underpowered army (like my catachans), then when you do beat list that are 'cheesy', then you can laugh in their faces while pointing at them

and in the end, you can always count on miracles in 40k (like a single 5+ armor save catachan surviving a fish of fury barrage before single handedly killing the firewarior team AND the devilsfish)

dark-hamish
23-01-2008, 03:52
I play only fun games. Well, or try to any way. I do feel that part of a fun game is a challenging game, and to that end I build tough, challenging lists. I try to keep my lists as cheese free as possible, and will do my best to win. However, it is all about hangin with some good friends and havin a few laughs. Without that, the game would suck for me.

IG_hopeful
23-01-2008, 08:16
think making fluffy underpowered army is fun (kudos to them, they keep the hobby more friendly)

Whixh with the lack of weapons options the DW have is the slot I fall in.And wont change..

DarkReaver
23-01-2008, 15:31
Well I picked "For fun" as I loving a great game of 40K with nailbiting results, close action and a victor (or a draw, all good).

But I still love smashing my opponents into the ground with fun lists.
Thanks to the GW staff at my local store I'm still allowed to use my Lost & the Damned which usually consists of Mutants, Mutants, Defiler, Mutants and either another Defiler or a Daemon Prince. The staff have actually labelled my army as fun as I do wild things with my Mutants that make my opponent and onlookers think "WTF is he doing?".
While I usually win most of my battles by "slaughter" or "hairs length" its always fun.

One time at the end of a 5th turn game I was eating a Dark Angel army and he had 3 models left surrounded by at least 45 Mutants, he said to me "Your really taking it to me with your Mutants". My reply was with a smile "Yeah, but you would do the same thing in my place". He smiled and agreed.

Just because your playing to win and think up 10+ strategies per turn doesn't mean your trying to win any means possible.

I think I've drifted off abit.......... oh well *shrugs*

Cuthullu
23-01-2008, 15:48
Normal Games: I play hard but fair, that means it depends on the opponent if i let him do things he forgot or let him move 6,5 inches instead of 6.

Fun games: Well, everything is possible, as long as the rules are not cheated.

Tournament games: 6 inches are inches, not 6,000001. And i will never let someone do something afterwards when he forgot, its tournament.

So n short:

Normal games: i play for fun
Fun games: i play for big fun
Tournament: i play to win, with every option allowed by the rules and exploiting every mistake of my opponent.

Sekhmet
23-01-2008, 19:09
I think the poll should've been:

Play for fun and to win
Play for fun and to lose
I play to win, 40k isn't fun
I play to lose, 40k isn't fun

I bet you'd only get 1 option with votes.

mechu95
23-01-2008, 19:18
I always play for fun, no matter if it's a friendly game with bent rules, or the final of a tourney, it's always for fun. Of course, it's always nice to win, but it's also nice when you loose with someone that doesn't try to win at all costs. If you only play to win, and you think of your opponents as little wiggling worms that you have to crush, then find something else to do in free time (maybe World of Warcraft?), coz hobbies are things that you do for fun, and competition is just an addition to it. That's it for now, before I reach for my flamer...

Sekhmet
23-01-2008, 19:37
I always play for fun, no matter if it's a friendly game with bent rules, or the final of a tourney, it's always for fun. Of course, it's always nice to win, but it's also nice when you loose with someone that doesn't try to win at all costs. If you only play to win, and you think of your opponents as little wiggling worms that you have to crush, then find something else to do in free time (maybe World of Warcraft?), coz hobbies are things that you do for fun, and competition is just an addition to it. That's it for now, before I reach for my flamer...

And some people think winning a hard-fought victory is fun. I certainly do. If I win because my opponent decided to throw his expensive HQ at my C'tan (and resultantly, they all die a horrible death without breaking a sweat), I don't feel that great. Competition IS fun to certain people. These terms aren't mutually exclusive. Some people aren't competitive by nature, fine. Some are, you have to recognize that.

My point is, everyone plays 40k for fun. If it wasn't fun, you wouldn't play. Some people derive their fun from competitive games where both players are trying to win, like a chess match with nicer miniatures and more variety. Some people derive their fun from fantastic narratives that go with their games. Some people derive their fun from simply moving toy soldiers and rolling dice. Some people derive their fun from the people themselves - hanging out, drinking beer and just doing things with their friends. And some people derive their fun from painting and converting.

People can have one, all, or a combination of the above that they feel applies to them. But fun or win is not a valid comparison.

northoceanbeach
23-01-2008, 21:49
I just sold my Emperor's Children army because I thought the new rules were bad, and I bought Eldar in mostly because I like the rules and think they are the best army. So I think I'll vote play to win.

IG_hopeful
23-01-2008, 21:52
Some people derive their fun from the people themselves - hanging out, drinking beer and just doing things with their friends.

Sadly that part :( will never happen as I play mostly at the local comic shop..

Havock
23-01-2008, 21:59
You do not "play" Warhammer, warhammer is not for fun. Warhammer is WAR!

Warhammer is serious business! :mad:

Stella Cadente
23-01-2008, 22:10
Warhammer is serious business! :mad:
no its not
*points at Grot armies*
I rest my case

Guy Fawkes
24-01-2008, 00:36
Play for Fun or Play to Win?

Can't you do both at the same time? Taking fun and characterful choices does not stop you from being competitive and trying to beat your opponent does not stop you from having a good time. I like games when my opponents beat me, because most often they genuinely outsmarted me and taught me more about the game.

That being said, there are many people at our local store ranging from completely non-competitive to die-hard tournament-goers, so you have to adjust a lot from making up new rules like "On a 6 that Giant tramples through that building and destroys it" just for the hell of it, to constantly being on your toes.

Havock
24-01-2008, 01:23
no its not
*points at Grot armies*
I rest my case

Failed to notice the obviousness flying overhead? :p

Eladamcio
24-01-2008, 02:41
I like both, I use a kinda broken Eldar army for tournaments, 1200 pts, 2 Falcons, a Fire prism, and everything else is on jetbikes or with wings. It wins alot. But outside tournaments, I like just playing for fun with friends, as long as they know that if they start saying they beat me badly, I go grab my broken Falcon tanks and ask for a rematch =)

Captain Micha
24-01-2008, 03:22
I play to have fun, and I play to win. Winning is not necessarily fun though. (like when you just totally slaughter someone. and by totally I mean by 1k vps)

Sekhmet
24-01-2008, 05:06
I play to have fun, and I play to win. Winning is not necessarily fun though. (like when you just totally slaughter someone. and by totally I mean by 1k vps)

You know what's not fun?
Slaughtering someone by 2k vps. In a 1.5k point game.

Havock
24-01-2008, 11:52
Same here, I'd rather lose slightly in a good game than completely rape an opponent to death. Did this last Saturday on a tourney, some newbie eldar kid only brought a wraithlord, an avatar and a missile launcher as "anti tank", everything else was S6 and below, even on his wraithlord: no brightlance. There I was with a 'russ, a demolisher, 2 hellhounds and two chimeras in a 1250 pts match. Almost felt sorry for bringing that list along ¬_¬

Meriwether
24-01-2008, 14:54
Same here, I'd rather lose slightly in a good game than completely rape an opponent to death.

I think pretty much everyone would be in this same boat. However, your opponents will never get better unless they play against people who are better than they are -- so if that's you, use the 'raping to death' as a teaching opportunity. Heck, if they're that bad, talk them through what to do differently as you go... Maybe they'll learn something, and it'll be a tighter game.

(Of course, if you show up in a tournament and suck, well, you're gonna get crushed by people.)

Meri

P.S. And with Doc Grotsnik, you can bring the Cyber-Grot army! (Mmmm... 180 grots with cybork bodies...)

Ianos
24-01-2008, 15:02
I do my best to win, but i always play to enjoy myself and my opponent much as i can. BTW loosing by 2000 points can be fun too, if you can't avoid it better enjoy it. I really don't understand people when they say they play for fun but hate loosing or at least too much, if you play for fun ONLY then you don't mind loosing ALL the time, unless you are also playing to win and care about winning.

P.S. Voted nothing, there is no both option....

sunkist
04-02-2008, 02:07
I play for fun because if I had played to win, I would have abandoned this hobby a long time ago because I am not a good tactician... I lost 70% of my games, 20% ended in a draw and finally 10% were ended by a victory...

Despite my terrible W/D/L stats, I’m starting to collect my third army. :D

Horus38
04-02-2008, 02:13
I play to crush and humiliate my opponent and then laugh as his cries like a girl :evilgrin:

Well actually I just play to have a good time with friends.

imperial_communist
04-02-2008, 10:20
Both everyone says for fun and yes it should be but hobbys are allso about exeling and lets face it if your imperial guard army is crushed undder a wagh ur gonna be pissed off but if you win theres a good feeling there