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Damage,Inc.
19-01-2008, 22:22
Hey all, I'm a Guard player returning to the game after a long time off. I have a question about some of the vehicles that have come and gone throughout the ages.

First off, is the Griffon still a viable unit and if so how do I take one. I have to older codices with it, but where does it fit now days and where do I find the 4th edition rules for it (to bring along to the games).

Second, the Vanquisher- is it still a choice for a standard Guard army? If so, once again, where do I find the rules and how much does this additional ammo stuff I have heard kicked around the net cost? What does it do for you?

Third- I remember there being a vehicle pretty much like a ZSU23-4 Shilka, I think called the Hydra. Is it still available and where are the rules to be found? (See a common thread here?)

And lastly, Chimera weapons. What can be put in the turret of a Chimera now and is it found on the basic models (IG codex), FW stuff, Armored Company stuff, and what not.

My army will be pretty basic, from the regular codex, but I want to use some of the interesting vehicles that were once upon a time available to make the list unique. No, I have not read or played Appoclypse yet, and won't until the basic army is finished and painted. Starting small and building up :)

Thanks. I am not looking for stats and points per se since GW frowns on that sort of thing, but I do need to know how much cash it will take to collect a thousand damn books for these varient vehicles. Also, if your opponent showed up with a photocopied pages for rules, nicely set up in a binder of course, but owned the books, would you really care? I will just take the pieces of a codex I need and compile a 'battle book' for the army I am using that day.

Bunnahabhain
19-01-2008, 22:32
All the answers you're after are in Imp. Armour 1, so only one book needed.

The Griffon, Vanquisher, Chimera turrets and Hydra are all now non codex, all to be found in IA 1 and few few people will mind you taking them. An unexpected Titan is one thing, a turret swap is quite another.

Utility.
Griffon. Great Vs anyone without a 3+ save. Cheap, big blast, IDF and short minimum range.

Vanqusher. Looks good. Overpriced for what it does- the shot is very powerful, but is only BS3 in the standard list ( rolls to hit using BS, no scatter), and still bounces off living metal and SMF, and as ordnance, means it's the only thing you're firing from a tank that's ~30pts more than a standard russ.

Hydra. Never used it myself, but it kills aircraft dead. Of course, the Eldar have a faster and more accurate skimmer tank with more shots for AA duty that costs less...

Photocopies of codex pages, to get everything into one place are a good idea. I do the same.

Damage,Inc.
19-01-2008, 23:07
Much thanks. I read the 4th Ed. rules about 4 years ago now and then packed them away 3,000 miles on another coast. IDF no longer are guess range, right? You just place the template within range and outside of minimums and them roll to scatter, IIUC?

I used to be one of those deadly accurate guessers and my old Guard used to have plenty of indirect fire weapons. My buddies used to get so pissed, especially because my scatter die seems to only have a HIT side :)

I still bemoan losing certain game aspects in the idea of a faster game. You just need players that understand the rules real well and things speed along nicely...

electric
20-01-2008, 18:17
Much thanks. I read the 4th Ed. rules about 4 years ago now and then packed them away 3,000 miles on another coast. IDF no longer are guess range, right? You just place the template within range and outside of minimums and them roll to scatter, IIUC?

That is correct (unless my entire store has been reading and playing it wrong). It's very nice.



I used to be one of those deadly accurate guessers and my old Guard used to have plenty of indirect fire weapons. My buddies used to get so pissed, especially because my scatter die seems to only have a HIT side :)

I know exactly what you mean. I'm one of those accurate guessers in Fantasy, and in both systems I have that useful Only-HIT die.

Epicenter
20-01-2008, 22:37
A slight clarification. Getting IA1 is certainly encouraged or perhaps required for what you're looking for. But you'll also need the Taros Campaign or some similar later FW publication for the Griffon. It becomes significantly better in later publications - in fact it borders on nearly abusive.

boogle
20-01-2008, 23:01
Alternatively, you can download Army builder

Bunnahabhain
20-01-2008, 23:22
Epicentre is normally sound, but he has brought up a dirty little secret Guard players don't like to talk about. The Griffon's infernus shells.

They're incendiary shell that force any enemy underneath them to fall back. That means you can force people off objectives, off the board , or simply out of cover and into the sights of 4 waiting squads. They're nasty. Very nasty. In fact, they are about the only significantly overpowered thing in the whole Guard range (GW and FW), or at least they were pre Apocolypse, which is just silly.

Most people don't use them ,as they are somewaht abusive, and contribute to some peoples dislike of playing against FW stuff- think how annoyed you would be to face three tanks, that can, using indirect fire, force you to do all sorts of horrible things, for under 100pts each.

I strongly encourage you not to use them.