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Warlord Kyle
19-01-2008, 23:29
First time im playing in a campaign and Im very new at fantasy. Heres my idea of a decent list but i could be way off.

Hq
90 Captain of the empire (armor of Meteronic Iron and Sword of Might)

101 Warrior Priest (Shield, Heavy Armor and Biting Blade)

150 lvl 2 Wizard (lore of light and 2x dispell scrolls)

Core
123 5 Knights (musician)

128 19 Spearmen (full command, shields, Warrior Priest is here)
50 detachment of 10 halberiers

139 18 swordsmen (full command, wizard and captian here)
60 detachment of 10 swordsmen

160 2x 10 Handgunners
80 2x detachments of 5 crossbows each

Special
114 5 Pistollers (outrider with repeater pistol and musician)

129 5 Outriders (champion and musican)

100 Great Cannon

75 Morter

= 1499

Most of the other armies in the campaign are bretonnian, undead, empire and various chaos armies. Any ideas would be helpful.

lparigi34
20-01-2008, 00:35
The army looks pretty good IMHO!



139 18 swordsmen (full command, wizard and captain here)
60 detachment of 10 swordsmen


My only issue is in this point. Too many points attached to one unit. Beware your flanks if you still decide to go with this. This unit will be the obvious target offering a huge reward if defeated and successfully pursued or panicked off the table.

Caboose123
20-01-2008, 01:22
I would put your warrior priest on a barded steed and stick him with the knights. S5 attacks with re-rolls to wound is quite devastating.

I would change the combat units slighty;
20 halberdiers with shields (just in case)
with a detachment of 10 free company

20 swordsmen
with a detachment of 10 halberdiers

You need units of 20 to have a detachemnt of 10 (technically) And i prefer to have swordsmen or halberdiers, spearmen aren't really worth it, once charged, they will suffer a lot of casualties.

The captain isn't a good enough fighter to bother, i would consider changing him to a BSB, then give him the armour, or a magic banner, and there are some very good banners, such as the griffon standard

Otherwise the list is very solid, there is a lot of shooting, but has strong (read: not weak) counter assault to go with it, very good for a first fantasy list!

RavenBloodwind
20-01-2008, 03:36
Some thoughts:
Characters generally not too bad. I'm inclined to agree with Caboose that a BSB might serve you in better stead. Additionally I'd go with a plain great weapon or extra hand weapon for the warrior priest.

As pointed out your detachments max size is half rounded-down of the parent unit.

I'd entertain a big rearrangement in your troops as follows:

Keep the Knights

Increase Spearmen to 20
Keep detachment of 10 halberiers
Add detachment of 10 handgunners (see below)

Increase swordsmen to 20
Change detachment of 10 freecompany
Add detachment of 10 handgunners (see below)

Turn 2x 10 Handgunners into detachments as above

Drop crossbows and replace with a small unit of huntsmen for a forward-deploying march blocker and warmachine hunter

Warlord Kyle
20-01-2008, 04:50
im limited for cash and dont really have many more models ti use. i also realized that i cant use the morter because only 3 special units choices in 1500pts
also y cant the detachments be 10 if with attached heros the unit is 20 strong?

another idea was given to me
i should lose the weapons on warrior priest and just with heavy armor and great hammer

change the spears and swords detachments to halberdiers

lose the morter i cant already have:p

and get ride of the outriders champion

and that leaves me enough room for my helblaster

could that be better?

nub5
20-01-2008, 07:24
im limited for cash and dont really have many more models ti use. i also realized that i cant use the morter because only 3 special units choices in 1500pts
also y cant the detachments be 10 if with attached heros the unit is 20 strong?

I don't think so because you characters are attached to the unit and that is not until the last part of deployment. So you have to bump up into 20 to have 10. However since you are not using FC there is no reason to have them 5x2. Drop them to 9 and run them 3x3. You still negate ranks (just have to be US 5 or greater) and it will be a lot easier for you to manuever. You get you static CR from your main unit.



another idea was given to me
i should lose the weapons on warrior priest and just with heavy armor and great hammer

Close, but I was going to say ditch the sword of might on the captain and give him a great hammer. However if you make him your BSB you may not want to do that.

You may want some more protection on your priest. Heavy armor does not provide that good of save and don't expect to alway be getting your prayers off for the ward save as a means of protection for him.

I liked the idea of putting him in 5 man unit of knights. The hatred really offsets rubber lance syndrome.



change the spears and swords detachments to halberdiers

lose the morter i cant already have:p

and get ride of the outriders champion

With Swordsmen as parent, I generally will run a 3x3 halberdier detachment with them. S4 can actually kill something and the halberdiers usually go first from the counter charge. With spearmen I either go with swordsmen in 3x3 or free company in 5x2 (that way I have one unit that rolls lots of dice)

If you going the hochland rifle, the champion outrider is great. However if you not, than no huge reason to have him and he should be dropped.



and that leaves me enough room for my helblaster

could that be better?
You can't hate the hellblaster. Any unit that always kills something when used (whether the enemy or your troops) is golden :cool:

If you can work it, you may want to use the helstrom instead.

And remember we chose our lore just before rolling spells which gives Empire an advantage of tailoring the lore to our opponent.

greendan
20-01-2008, 15:05
Sadly you have too many special choices for 1500pts.
So the helblaster may need to roll out (instead of the mortar). As horribly unpredictable as it can be when it does hit its completely worth it.
Maybe attach some of those handgunners to the block infantry.
And another unit of knights wouldnt hurt.
Outriders i find a bit hit and miss. I guess this is due to my bad deployment of them, but i seem to end up running them around the board all game trying to find a good position for them to shoot and not be shot at.
Also i like free company as detachments for the sheer volume of attacks.
:chrome:

bigbear bailey
20-01-2008, 15:16
Here's what I think..

Hq
90 Captain of the empire (armor of Meteronic Iron and Sword of Might)
(great weapon is better for him IMHO)


101 Warrior Priest (Shield, Heavy Armor and Biting Blade)
(Forget bitting blade and give him either two hand weapons OR a GW... Challenge with a unit champ if you are scared he'll get killed the first round)

150 lvl 2 Wizard (lore of light and 2x dispell scrolls)
(I like him, same on I use if I ever do)

Core
123 5 Knights (musician)
(great unit)

128 19 Spearmen (full command, shields, Warrior Priest is here)
50 detachment of 10 halberdiers

(Good unit, but could use 5 more men)

139 18 swordsmen (full command, wizard and captain here)
60 detachment of 10 swordsmen
(I would give them halberdiers instead of the swordsmen detachment)

160 2x 10 Hand gunners
80 2x detachments of 5 crossbows each
(I like the units BUT I would make the crossbowmen detachments of your foot slogger blocks)

Special
114 5 Pistollers (outrider with repeater pistol and musician)

129 5 Outriders (champion and musician)
(I like both of them)

100 Great Cannon
(good unit)

You just need 5 more men to the big blocks and then you are good... Oh and you can't listen to Caboose... He is a little slow...

Caboose123
20-01-2008, 16:56
Oh and you can't listen to Caboose... He is a little slow...
...
...
...
...
HEY thats an insult! ;)

I agree with most of what bigbear said, i like halberdiers with shields and sworsmen as the core blocks with free company or halberdiers (w/o shields) as detachments. 25 6 point guys with a detachment of 10 5 points guys :P

If you plan on staying still and shooting your opponent then the crossbowmen should be detachments to your blocks, if you plan on advancing then they should be detachments to the handgunners

BSB, seriously... Captains cant fight im afraid :(

Pistoliers are always handy, and Outriders are devastating, i tend to move them only if necessary and use them like a stationary shooting unit.

Cannon is great, i wouldnt get a hellblaster though, too random for my liking, take vanilla knight unit or more troops instead. The lore of light is a decent lore, but the lore of beasts could be handier...

And i still think the warrior priest should join the knights!

Warlord Kyle
20-01-2008, 18:57
the knights i wanted to keep cheap because my idea is just to sneak around march blocking, taking out weapon crews and charging if the oppertunity presents itself.

I would love to have a BSB...but there again is the cash issue unless i convert an extra lace with some glue and layered kleenex....

The reason i dont have any men at arms is because 3 people at the tournement that i know charge through detachments and swordsmen have a slightly better chance at surviving....

I will switch out the swords detachment for halbediers, is there any point giving them shields?

Are the lores of beasts any good? The only list of lores i have is from 6th edition, my friend is lending me his old codex/army book (what ever i call it someone is going to yell at me :P )

Shouldnt both the warrior priest and captain have some form of magical weapon to deal with ethernal creatures though?

What is this rubber lance condition? Just a charge that doesnt wound?

And i will be sur to deploy 3x3 for the detachments, might help me last longer.

Caboose123
20-01-2008, 19:11
The warrior priest and wizard can deal with the 1 ethereal creature you may encounter during the tournament. If you think they are very likely to come up in droves, then yes, a magic item could be handy

You need the new rulebook, its that simple, especially since you play empire, but i like the lore of beasts, bears anger is level 1 spell (which confers +3 A and +2 S to a Unit Str 1 person within 12"), they have wild hunt as Lv6 spell which moves knights and cavalry forward, handy for your knights. Hunting spear is a bolt thrower spell that auto-hits, and the beast cowers slows/stops a cavalry unit or chariot or monster. Overall it is my favourite lore for empire

Rubber lance syndrome is when your knights charge, but do absolutely nothing against all expectations, surprisingly common, it is stopped by putting a warrior priest with them ;), so they re-roll to hit in the first round with their lances!

Detachments getting charged and destroyed is fine, they dont cause panic, are cheap as chips, and usually result in your parent unit charging the people who killed the detachment. (They overrun/pursue >9" away, in your turn you turn your parent unit, there turn they turn their unit*, your turn your parent unit charges, thats the theory!)

*or they continue forwad towards your guns but have a strong-ish unit threatening their rear

3x3 detachments? remember 5 front rank minimum...

Anyway, good luck!

nub5
20-01-2008, 23:25
3x3 detachments? remember 5 front rank minimum...

Anyway, good luck!

Were does it state that you must have a 5 wide front rank? I know you have to be 5 wide to claim any CR bonus from additional ranks, but we are talking about detachments here. You should be relying on your parent unit to generate CR from ranks.

To claim +1 CR from rear and deny the opponents rank bonus you only need to be a US 5 or greater unit. That is the detachment job is to remove rank bonus and get a +1 rear. The 3x3 block provide this and are much more maneuverable, deployment friendly.

Caboose123
21-01-2008, 00:10
Maybe, I would leave them 5x2 so they get more attacks...

lparigi34
21-01-2008, 02:00
Maybe, I would leave them 5x2 so they get more attacks...

I Totally agree with Caboose123. Though 3x3 sounds cool, but 5x2 is not that hard to maneuver as to make me give up on those two extra attacks.

I usually field 2 Detachments per unit, on is a ranked unit useful to negate ranks and get bonuses. The other one I usually use for bait or expendable unit.

My favorite units to use as detachments are halberdiers, as the main counterattack detachment, and Free Company as the other one, this one is usually smaller (AKA CHEAP), so I maximize on MSU on the table at a low cost.

Warlord Kyle
21-01-2008, 02:47
can u mount models in a foot unit? Totally out of context lets say a captian on a horse with barding in a unit of swordsmen...totally out of context lol. Can he be targeted specifically because of this?

lparigi34
21-01-2008, 11:38
can u mount models in a foot unit? Totally out of context lets say a captain on a horse with barding in a unit of swordsmen...totally out of context lol. Can he be targeted specifically because of this?

Maybe a little out of context, but totally within the rules, as models US2 or less get protection form a foot unit as if it where on foot itself.

It means that it can not be the target of missile weapons and gets the benefit of the "Look out Sir" rule when hit by template weapons.

Caboose123
21-01-2008, 15:52
And he gets the +2 to his armour, and the option of charging out to surprise opponents, but it will be awkward to position him in the unit, if hes is with small base minis

Cant believe someone agreed with me... :) That just made my day...

bigbear bailey
21-01-2008, 16:04
The only time you really don't want to put a hero on a mount is if you have a great weapon OR you need the points not to... There are to many reasons to have a hero mounted so I would think about that (although you general is very good for his points)

3x3 is great for flanking as it moves better and it makes them very easy to deploy... Your call though

Oh and you know I was just messing with you you crazy Irish bastard... I just figured you would read it since you are always a hawk on these Empire posts like I am ha-ha...

lparigi34
21-01-2008, 17:56
And he gets the +2 to his armour, and the option of charging out to surprise opponents, but it will be awkward to position him in the unit, if hes is with small base minis

Cant believe someone agreed with me... :) That just made my day...

LOL... I just also did in a different thread too. Am I just making your week? :p

Caboose123
21-01-2008, 18:12
Days come and go, but people agreeing with me, thats a rarity!

Warlord Kyle
21-01-2008, 21:28
same with me, must be a empire trait...

Does he count for 2 ranks if mounted?

bigbear bailey
21-01-2008, 21:48
He is unit str 2 so yes he does... Now the best way to put him in a unit is to make the ranks that well be behind him have the bigger bases as well and then the unit is the same size all around. If not then it's no big deal but it well look funny and won't fit in a tray right...

Warlord Kyle
22-01-2008, 19:06
how would it look funny? wouldnt it just take the place of a man behind him?

Caboose123
22-01-2008, 19:24
No, because infantry are on either 20mm or 25mm, empire infantry are 20mm, chaos and saurus are 25mm for example, the horses base is 25mmx50mm, it would be awkward.

(the measurements may not be right, but its the right theory :p)

Warlord Kyle
23-01-2008, 03:05
lol, measurements are always exagerated ;) Any one else have any ideas or tips?

Caboose123
23-01-2008, 19:17
Put your infantry on the bigger bases :D
(Don't, its not allowed, but it was a tip!)

bigbear bailey
23-01-2008, 22:38
You can put the models on the bigger bases... How can you know why the bases are all a MUST be the 20mm ones... Dies it say that some where...

Caboose123
23-01-2008, 22:41
All models must be mounted on the bases they cam with, it does say that somewhere...
*flicks through BRB*
...somewhere, im pretty sure, in fantasy you have to use the proper base size, hence the base size reference sheet, in 40k i think your allowed larger, but not smaller bases...

Warlord Kyle
24-01-2008, 03:47
i dont think u can even do that or would what to because all u would be doing is making more enemies being able to strike u in close combat, harder to manuver through terrain heavy fields, harder to get all models into cc etc...

anyone explain the empire fasination with feathers and beards?

Caboose123
24-01-2008, 16:11
Wierd Fetish?

Bringing all their wordly possesions to battle?

They like their chickens?
(and)
Shavers haven't been invented?

Clumsy village folk make shaving a great risk, so they shave with feathers, which they bring into battle; and it clearly doesn't work...