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alphastealer
21-01-2008, 09:14
Hi,

How would you rate the current armies in terms of difficulty for a new player to cometo grips with them, ie: which armies can a monkey use well with little effort and which armies require a doctorate in battlefield tactics to get right?

Go from easiest to hardest and say why you think so. For example I would say:

1) Necron - once you have troops a lord and a few destoyers you can handle most situations. Gauss weapons can damage anything regardless of toughness or armour. Only one choice for a vehicle so it is a yes or no situation on selection. The monolith is also very tough to break. A real beginner army with limited model selection and tough as nails troops.

2) Marines - everyone has a marine army (don't they?) and they all have the same stats except for the commanders. Weapons are pretty much the same for each unit, just varying in what quantity can be taken be unit type. They can hold their own in most situations and are quite forgiving if you use them in the wrong role. Good vehicle options, most of which utilise the same chassis which makes them interchagable and easy to assemble.

3) Chaos Marines - Somewhat more difficult to use than standard marines but not much worse. Chaos allows for some unique units with great firepower. The current codex makes demons a useful extra but not much else. The general will need a good balance between close combat and decent ranged weapons. The cost of chaos units is quite high, so it is more about what to leave out.

4) Orks - The new codex is no more complicated than the old one. Lots of boyz and mixed weapons. The trick with orks is to make sure you have enough tank busting weapons, since you will always have more than enough to deal with troops. They are fun to modify and usually it is a 'rush the enemy and see what they do' kind of tactic.

5) Tau - essentially troops and suits. The suit configurations can be tricky but only if you are a perfectionist, otherewise you can't go too wrong with the fireknife (plasma/missle/multitracker). They are weak in close combat so you will need a bit of savvy to get them close enough to shoot but not let them get caught in hth.

6) Tyranids - multiple biomorphs and variable weapon strength per brood type, synape control for infantry, low armour saves and no vehicles make this a unique army to play. Tyranids require a fair bit of experimentation to get them right. Also you will want quite a drastically different army depending on who your opponent is, so balancing them out against a general opponent is tricky.

7) Eldar - A large variety of units to choose from. Lots of psychic powers and a good selection of vehicles make this a thinking persons army. It is more about what not to inculde and tailoring the right combination of heavy long range weapons and close combat ability. Eldar can get murdered if they are not used in their right role, nowhere near as forgiving as marines. In the right hands they are devastating.

8) Imperial Guard - Often thought of as the underdogs due to them getting beaten quite often, the guard are in fact quite good. They just need an equally good general to lead them. They can field more troops than most armies, they have the biggest concentration of ordinance weaponary and have units that can hold their own in close combat. The basic troop is fragile so needs proper support. They are not always the most mobile army, so the clever general will need to choose his army composition wisely.

9) Witch Hunters - Also not very common, they can be potent if used correctly. WH excel in mid range combat where melta and flamer weapons can do their thing. They have tough close combat units but not enough. Once again you will need to place them and move them wisely. Faith points are a bonus but will not save a poor tactician from seeing their tail.

10) Demonhunters - Very hard hitting in close combat and short range. They are expensive and so most armies have few models in them. They lack mobility and will need to close with the enemy soon. They have useful long range weapons but if they get caught in the open, it is game over.

11) Dark Eldar - These guys are very fragile but have a lot of options to help jack them up for specific roles. They are very mobile and will need to be used with care. In the wrong hands they get slaughtered since their troops have low toughness and weak armour, but if used well, they are nigh unstoppable. This is imo the toughest army to master, but gives you the biggest reward when you do.

What do you all think?

Sekhmet
21-01-2008, 09:45
There aren't really any armies that are particularly hard to play.

Being a bad army does not equate to easy or hard play. I'd say DH are easy to play, because you'll get the same outcome with good or bad players: a loss.

Defcon
21-01-2008, 09:59
Daemonhunters are harder to win with than Dark Eldar by FAR. Like, unreasonably by far. As long as the other DE players here won't find me and kill me for unveiling our secret, the myth of DE being horrible is one that we propogate to sound like amazing tacticians when the army is VERY easy to play once you realize what units not to use.

Epicenter
21-01-2008, 10:07
To be honest, you don't need a Doctorate in battlefield strategy to win with Dark Eldar. Any Dark Eldar player who isn't feeling his oats will tell you that pointblank. Dark Eldar have very simple tactics pretty much split between the Raider Rush and a variant of the Raider Rush, the WWP rush. You'll spend more time tweaking your army list so it's good, because they have lots of really lame choices, a few pretty lame choices, and a couple of unsound choices in their codex, probably as many as Witchunters, but the good units of Dark Eldar are really good - once you get the handful of units that are worth taking in a Dark Eldar army arranged properly and get your head around the tactics, you actually have one of the strongest armies that nobody plays.

Witchunters don't actually have very good CC units unless you're playing static Sisters which is unsound because the army is so short ranged. If you mechanize, your "good" CC choices (arcos) become bad. Arcos can't ride in vehicles and can lose members for just running across the table. PEs are slow. Both can be abused like Khorne Berserkers in older Chaos codexes - you get them to chase after vehicles and such. Sisters Repentia are so bad they don't bear mention. Now Assassins are good, but you have to pay for that freaky =I= who is rarely worth his or her points.

squeekenator
21-01-2008, 10:07
I agree with Defcon and Epicenter, I never find anything remotely hard about Dark Eldar. Plant a webway gate, send out assault units, charge. They are anything but difficult to use, glass cannons =/= hard to play. Where does the idea that they are in some way hard to use come from, anyway?


Now Assassins are good, but you have to pay for that freaky =I= who is rarely worth his or her points.

Actually, one is inefficient, one is only a bit below average, and two are complete crap. Eversor, Callidus and Culexus and Vindicare, respectively. The Culexus isn't bad at what it does, the problem is that it only works in a tailored list when you know you're going to play against a seer council equivalent, otherwise it's a waste of points.

big squig
21-01-2008, 10:10
I'd switch the orks and bugs spot.

squeekenator
21-01-2008, 10:14
Why? Orks are very much point and click, whereas Tyranids need expensive and thus uncommon troops to stay alive unless it's a cheese Nidzilla army. Keeping your synaptic web intact is no mean feat. Where's the difficulty in playing Orks? Your basic mob of boyz does everything and has no real weaknesses.

alphastealer
21-01-2008, 10:22
While I agree with the experienced players that DE are a song once you know what to take, how to field them, and what tactic to use...think about this from the point of view of a wide eyed teenager, with no tactical experience, in a GW store with a fat wallet looking to make his first army purchase.

He (hardly ever a she) asks the helpful sales person for a brief breakdown and which armies are easier to learn to use well and which are recommended for experienced players due to their complexity and difficulty to master.

Now, what would you tell him? and why.

lord_blackfang
21-01-2008, 10:27
Eldar to #4 spot.

squeekenator
21-01-2008, 10:32
While I agree with the experienced players that DE are a song once you know what to take, how to field them, and what tactic to use...think about this from the point of view of a wide eyed teenager, with no tactical experience, in a GW store with a fat wallet looking to make his first army purchase.

The point is that you don't need any experience to figure out DE. I didn't have any, and I figured them out within 10 minutes of buying the codex. Oh, and that was at around the age of 12, and while my eyes weren't wide, they were at least more than half open. Webway portals = good. Assault = good. Webway portals + assault = even better. That's all you need to know. The webway mechanic is so innately overpowered that you don't even need to recognise how useless some of their troops are to win once you've made that jump. All I'm looking for here is any reason at all for Dark Eldar to be even slightly difficult to use.

Epicenter
21-01-2008, 10:34
While I agree with the experienced players that DE are a song once you know what to take, how to field them, and what tactic to use...think about this from the point of view of a wide eyed teenager, with no tactical experience, in a GW store with a fat wallet looking to make his first army purchase.

He (hardly ever a she) asks the helpful sales person for a brief breakdown and which armies are easier to learn to use well and which are recommended for experienced players due to their complexity and difficulty to master.

Now, what would you tell him? and why.

I doubt I'd keep my job, to be honest. What am I supposed to say?

"Dark Eldar? Oh yeah, they're really really strong. Sadly, their models look something you scoop out of your cat's sandbox and most of them suck, but Gav felt sorry for them so gave them some brainless choices to make them one of the strongest armies in the game, if not the strongest. Unfortunately, we don't carry their full model range here because players are rightfully repulsed by their old, ugly models that didn't look so hot to begin with..."

Bloodknight
21-01-2008, 13:28
I would not put the DE in the place of the hardest to play army - that would either be Daemonhunters or Witchhunters. The only problem the DE face is list building - it is very easy to hamstring yourself with a lot of the choices in the codex. A wych cult army however is something like a laser guided missile on the TT. Keep the guys in cover unitil they can launch a combined assault and you win. (from me as a DE player from the 1st hour on).

The_Outsider
21-01-2008, 13:38
DE are harder than most, but certainly not the ultimate army for difficulty.

On a board with decent amount of terrain DE are killtastic - you can't run from them and can rarely outshoot/out CC them.

However T3 5+ and fairky high cost for most units outside of the warriors = return fire does infact, actually hurt.

alphastealer
21-01-2008, 13:48
Ok, there seems to be an overwhelming agreement that DE are not that hard an army to know and do well with.

So, where would you slot them in in the overall list of army difficulty, and please give your overall list to go with it, 1=easiest, 10=hardest.

I would also like to know as an aside what GW sales guys actually tell people when they come in with a fist full of cash looking for their first army and are a little gullable, when asked which armies are easy medium or difficult.

The_Outsider
21-01-2008, 13:52
1) Tau
2) Space marines
3) Chaos
4) Necrons
5) Ork
6) Tyranid
7) IG
8) Eldar
9) DE
10) DH + WH

[edit] fixed list

Mr Zephy
21-01-2008, 13:53
They tell them to choose models that they like.

And I'd put Tau beneath chaos but above orks.

yommtz
21-01-2008, 13:55
5- tyranid
6- eldar (arguable, but massing skimmer tanks full of aspect warriors doesnt seem hard to me)
7- dark eldar (sorry they're very easy to play with, you only have two tactics and one list)
8- tau (much harder to get a feel of due to proper crisis outfitting/usage than most realize, much less forgiving than DE imho)
9- IG (depending on the mission this can be out right impossible)
10- witch hunters
ive never seen it done before - demonhunters

im also not sure about the exact order of the top four, old csm where very easy old ork were hard... i don't have enough experience with the new ones to make a judgment... necrons always seemed like more of a luck based army than a skill one

xibo
21-01-2008, 14:08
1. Spammarines of any kinds
2. Necrons
3. Chaos
4. Tau or Orks
5. the other one
6. Eldar
7. Bugs
8. Dark Eldar
---huge gap here---
9. SoBs
10. Inquisition, IG and LatD
11. Grey knights

Logic512
21-01-2008, 14:10
This massively subjective attempt and objectivity just made me throw up a little in my mouth. At any rate, DE are much easier than that... You just have to drop big money on lots of raiders.

Stella Cadente
21-01-2008, 14:14
you see this list is almost impposible to do, because EVERYONE will have a totally different opinion, for example in my case

1. Imperial Guard
2. Orks
3. Tau
4. Marines of any kind
5. Witch hunters
6. daemonhunters (inquisition)
7. Tyranids (not using genestealer spam or big monster spam)
8. Eldar
9. Dark Eldar
10. Daemonhunters (grey knights)

MrPickles
21-01-2008, 14:16
Sisters should be towards the top of the list, as in 4 or 5. Between the best under-costed troop choice in the game (basic sisters), one of the best fast attack choice (seraphim), and a nasty heavy support choice (exorcist), the army is very nasty to say the least.

Rhyskalor
21-01-2008, 14:22
Here be my subjective list:

1) Space marines
2) Chaos
3) Eldar
4) DE
5) Necrons
6) Ork
7) Tyranid
8) Tau
9) IG
10) DH + WH

Paul Nexus
21-01-2008, 14:31
I have never heard of DE being easy until I read this thread. i've never played them myself, so I can voice no opinion.

From the armies I've played, this is how i would list them:

Imperial Guard - High model count, lots of battle tanks, long ranges, can be tailored with a great deal of customisation.

Space Marines - Great all-rounders. Can handle most situations with efficiency. Often struggle against specialist troops though.

Chaos - Much the same as Space Marines, they trade a few loyalist traits for some of their own, like the use of Daemons. They have a few more specialist units than loyalists.

Eldar - Fast, great psychic powers, dedicated specialist units. In the wrong place these units will be wiped out, in the right place they are devastating. Specialist units makes it a little trickier making an all-comers list, as each unit is designed for a specific purpose.

Necrons - Similar statline to loyalist and traitor marines. Very resilient. Can suffer against assault units/armies. Careful unit selection needed to deal with phaseout.

Daemon Hunters - Used on their own, they are a very hard army to play. Long ranged anti tank really only comes in the form of Dreads and LRs. Their infantry are either fragile (ISTs) or expensive (GKs). When used in conjunction with other Imperial Codices, they can utilise other armies strengths to maximise they're potential.

The_Outsider
21-01-2008, 14:36
I have never heard of DE being easy until I read this thread. i've never played them myself, so I can voice no opinion.


DE range from harder than most (though not by much) to literally unplayable.

Chains and Glass
21-01-2008, 14:51
I think that considering each army has at least 4 compeltely seperate list-styles and variants its hard to list them like this.... for example i think Imperial guard is easier than grey knights.... but grey knights is easier than mechanized guard.... which is easier than radical Daemonhunter..... and so on....

however... averaging out the strengths of each style i'd probably say (from my experiance.... so a slightly smaller pool of players and styles to draw my wisdom from)

1: Orks
2: Tyranids
3: Marines
4: Chaos Marines
5: Tau
6: Eldar
7: Dark Eldar
8: Mixed Inquisition or Sisters
9: Imperial Guard
10: Straight Grey Knights

If i had to write down a list involving each major Army variant it'd go into the 60s im sure.... Wych Cult.... Kroot Mercs..... Mechanised Sisters.... Drop Guard(i heard some guy won a game with guard this way :eek: j/k).... Dark Angels/ Black Templars/ Blood Angels/ Space Wolves.... Speed Freaks (well.... you know... orks in trukks) ......... THE GENESTEALER HORDES OF DOOM and nidzilla all are examples of variant books/ list structures that we aren't including and would seriously upset that order....

IMHO.... Radical Inquisition and Mechanized Guard (i play 1000pt tournies mostly.... 2 troops and 1 hq in a mech list costs 685pts without spec/ heavy weapons or any form of upgrade) are the hardest to play.... altho i spose im a bit biased :angel:

Kriegschmidt
21-01-2008, 15:04
I think the question is "how easy are they to get to grips with", i.e. how easy is it with army X to understand the army list, rules, strengths, weaknesses, tactical leaning, etc. and get to a stage where you can start thinking about employing your own tactics because you understand your army well.

So, stressing that this is not "how easy are they to beat everyone with", I would say:

1) Necrons - very small army list, virtually no squad upgrades, virtually all wargear focussed on the Lord, easy to negate cc weakness, "point and click" army.

2) Marines - streamlined rules (even more so now), easy to understand wargear, simple solutions to all game requirements, clear strengths and weaknesses, small numbers of models so battlefield management is easier.

3) Tau - good shooting range means you can simply plan deployment then react from there if necessary. No complex "flitting about" planning required. Simple squad upgrades, consistent abilities through different vehicles. Virtually whole army focussed on same strengths and weaknesses.

4) Demonhunters (assuming here that this is not an "anti-daemon flavoured IG list") - Clear strengths and weaknesses. Obvious application (close-up and hard). Very small army list denies tactically varied army-building. However, limited codex entries make it easy to understand the codex. Less unit types and upgrades than marines. Obivous tactical leaning with little variation possible.

5) Chaos Marines - Similar model count to marines, easy(ish) to manage army on the table, with added difficulty of unique summoning rules. Share some strengths and weaknesses with marines, though several that are more hidden. Broad spectrum of tactical styles, hard to get to grips with all of them but many units have clear roles, allowing for not-too-difficult mixing-and-matching.

6) Eldar - easy to miss/ignore the key factor that they must support each other. With one or two possible exceptions, there are no "send 'em out on their own" units. Vehicle rules are unorthodox but also easy to learn. Strong psychic aspect requires solid understanding but also well designed and easy to get started with. Units have very clear strengths and weaknesses, making list-building easier. "The better the army is understood, the less thinking is required in playing them" - this much more so than many other armies.

7) Dark Eldar - Very clear strengths and weaknesses. However, "no-brainers" are not obvious. Clear understanding of all units' capabilities required to extract the obviously effective tactics. Easily misused and quite unforgiving.

8) Imperial Guard - easy to spot weaknesses, harder to decipher the army's overall strength. In-depth codex rules to make up for the ordinariness of the common Guardsman. List-building is harder due to "entries within entries", e.g. 1 troops choice is more than one unit, support squads for HQ choices, etc. Doctrines add more detail, also require understanding. Clear strengths too but harder to work out how to use them.

9) Tyranids - from the point of view of a human player, this is the most unique army in the game. Totally alien, a thorough understanding of the background is required. Inter-unit support is essential and ability to put aside standard 40k rules like "falling back" (here it's "falling-towards-synapse-creature"). Same wargear items have different stats for different creatures, therefore more understanding required than simply "powerfist does X, plasma pistol does Y....". No reference points in other codices, e.g. If you know marine rhino-chassis vehicles, you immediately have some knowledge of the witchhunters' vehicles, whereas Tyranids are isolated. Too easy to fall into the "run forwards screaming" tactic, which is easily spotted and tackled.

10) Witch Hunters - At first glance, no unit seems to have great strengths. Probably easy to get too quickly stuck into gaming without understanding how units need to rely on each other. Players cannot rely on standing still and blasting, like marines can. Designed for the "hold them back at close range" game, which is probably the hardest game. Their S and T do not help them here. Human troops and easy to understand vehicles help but I imagine much practise is required.

Note: I've left out Orks because I have never played with or against them (and haven't bought the new codex yet) so I couldn't say

Gaftra
21-01-2008, 15:45
1 - necrons. there are so few choices and the army is very forgiving when poor tactical mistakes are made.
2- marines. same logic as necrons, but since the list is deeper there are more opportunities for misspent points and creating ineffective units that seem cool but do nothing.
3 - chaos. same idea as marines but you can really make a bunk list with 30 models
4 - Eldar. its kind of a toss up between them and nids for this spot. I feel that the Eldar codex is more intuitive however for making powerful lists of effective troops since it is very clear exactly what each units is for.
5 - Tyranids. Creating a horde of bugs can be somewhat tricky given the variety and vast difference between the units and their builds. You also have more to keep track of on the battlefeild.
6 - Orks. might seem kinda high up but my reasoning is that once things start going badly for your army its very difficult to turn things around. almost every unit is vulnerable and can take itself out with a bad die roll.
7 - Imperial Guard. Lots of choices and an alternative build structure to regular armies makes this tough to figure out. You can always rely on the effectiveness of tanks and the fact that you can get LOTS of guardsmen with good weapons.
8 - Tau. I put them a little higher than guard because you have fewer models with very powerful shooting and therefore have to be more thoughtful in your deployment and what you target.
9 - Dark Eldar. An army with more weaknesses than strengths, with only a few viable options this army is hard to play with and is really a bit of a one trick pony.
10 - Witch Hunters. this army is really all over the place, between faith points, crazt specialist units, and the fact that you can make totally different armies out of the same book is going to confound alot of even experienced players.
11 - Daemon Hunters. This one goes to the top because of its ability to fuool new players into thinking its good. Marines that are better than marines? AWESOME! what usually ends up happening is you get is fewer models on the table that die just as easily. You have to be incredibly picky about how youmake up this army and its still is going to have difficulty in almost every game.
12 - Kroot Mercenaries. T3 6+ save for you whole army. no vehicles. only one invulnerable save. why did i think this was a good idea to collect?

AngryAngel
21-01-2008, 17:46
If you want to play a hard marine army, play DA. I can promise you they are not over the top strong, and if you win its not because of crazy strong units or rules.

StanMcKim
21-01-2008, 18:47
1: Chaos Marines
Having bolter/cc weapon/bolt pistol means that basic chaos marines are good at either close combat or shooting, so new players are easily forgiven if they accidently get a shooty unit charged. They have the standard MEQ resilience, so they're similar to 'crons and marines in that respect. They have well rounded choices in each force org slot, so no matter what you choose, it'll probably do its job pretty well.

2: Dark Angels
A simple book and all the benefits of being a space marine, dark angels have some really great specialized units in the Ravenwing and Deathwing. I think the tactics involved in playing them are a little more subtle than those used when playing Chaos marines, and are therefore a little tougher to master.

3: Space Marines
Similar to Chaos, but have to pay a bit more attention to what they get into a fight with. The traits system, armoury, nad retinue rules have been recognized as being a bit complicated though and can be a little confusing to a first timer. However, over all they're forgiving and can with despite themselves sometimes.

4:Necrons
Necrons would probably be number one except for the we'll be back rule, the monolith extra armour pen die debate, and the cruel fact that taking the cool models can actually hurt you sometimes because of phase out. There is also the matter of properly using Necron Lord wargear. Unlike power weapons and terminator armour, the correct application of the veil of darkness or res orb isn't always as apparent, especially for someone learning the ropes.

5: Black Templar
These guys have some of the unclear rules found in the Space Marines book coupled with righteous zeal, and some more detailed rules in the form of the emperor's champion and his vows. I think that these things combine to make Templar a little more difficult to learn even than Necrons.

****
the above five are pretty close together in terms of learning curve in my mind. They're all MEQ and therefore a bit more forgiving when you're still learning how to play.
****

6:Tyranids
They're bugs, so there isn't a whole lot of confusion on what they're supposed to do, however, the number of biomorphs that have to be considered, as well as whether or not they should be taken in the first place, can be a bit overwhelming to a new player. There is also the question of balancing your troops and your support units. Its easy to load up on carnifexes and warriors while forgetting about having decent sized units of troops.

7: Orks
I don't know a whole lot about the new orks book, but from what I've seen it offers some very interesting choices to a new player. Once again, you have the problem of being too top heavy and not having enough troops. On the other hand, your troops can't handle everything an opponent might throw at you, so how do you decide how much tank busting is enough, or what elites to take? I think that while Orks might have a simple modus operandi of charging and bludgening, making a good list and executing it would be a decent challenge to a new player.

****
Orks and Nids are kind of similar in that they offer a simple overall strategy of close combat while offering lots of varied units that each require very unique tactics to use properly.
****

8:Tau
I think that Tau and Orks might actually have a very similar learning curve, just from opposite extremes. Each Tau unit is designed to support the other, and learning which units are best at supporting which as well as *when* to support can be a challenge. They can also be frustrating if the Tau player doesn't have the right balance of mobility and firepower and continually gets beaten in close combat. However, once the army is learned, it can be quite sick.

9: Eldar
As above, except now you have to balance mobility/shooting/close combat units, properly co-ordinate them, properly support them, and know when to emphasize one of the three areas of combat. It can take a bit of trial and error on the part of a new player to get things just right.

10: Dark Eldar
I think there has been enough discussion on these guys already. You gotta learn what units are good, what ones aren't, and when to get in close. Once it clicks, the army is easy to win with.

****
The above three are all similar again in that they rely on dominating certain stages of the game while requiring serious support from the rest of the army. They are also very fragile and likely to fold if things don't go the way they had planned.
****

11: Imperial Guard
These guys are tough to play with. Unless you're fighting grots, the other units are probably better than your basic guardsman. I think that this list most of all has to be extremely careful in how it plays each of the other armies. The challenge is to figure out what works against what army as well as what type of build that army is using. Fast orks and Fast Chaos are two completely different things in the eyes of a guard player. There is also the issue of luck and ordinance. I find winning and losing can sometimes come down to whether or not that 'hit' comes up on the scatter die, and learning to play an army that swings big or strikes out can be difficult.

12: Witch Hunters/Daemon Hunters
I've always thought of these guys more of the Dogs of War of 40k and never really an army in their own rights. I think that they have some strengths that bolster the imperial armies and offer some great flavour, but they have some serious weaknesses when played on their own.

****
These final two really do need the best general behind them because they are simply unforgiving in the extreme.

Well, thats what I think. Feel free to critique, the only thing I ask is that you have a clear argument for why you would change anything here, and that you give an explaination of your opinion.
-Stan

Eirich
21-01-2008, 20:07
I'm quite surprised that Tau seems to be considered quite difficult to play...
The extreme firepower and long-range weaponry gives Tau a great advantage in open terrain, and few players drives a tank into the line of sight of a railgun.
But they are quite unforgiving, forget to move your suits in the assault phase and you might consider them lost if the enemy is anywhere near them. Units (other than Kroot and maybe Vespid) that end up i CC are doomed, sure they can survive for a while but don't expect to win.

But I must say that I agree on the list given before my post.

The_Outsider
21-01-2008, 20:11
I'm quite surprised that Tau seems to be considered quite difficult to play...


Depends who you ask, 'round these parts ANYONE can play tau - even necrons require more.....effort (for lack of a "better" word).

Mr Zephy
21-01-2008, 22:06
Units (other than Kroot and maybe Vespid) that end up i CC are doomed, sure they can survive for a while but don't expect to win..

TBH, Vespid and Kroot are doomed, just that kroot and vespid might take some with them...

StanMcKim
21-01-2008, 22:40
The thing about Tau is that they are rather unforgiving if they make any mistakes. Eirich has got it right when he says forgetting to move a unit equate to killing it off. Unlike orks, where there are more of them if they get shot up, or even some of the Eldar aspects who have some skill in CC, Tau are pretty well boned if they're not using their pulse rifles.
-Stan

danscan
22-01-2008, 01:18
Which is easier to play with really depends on who you are playing. IG can move up to near the top of the list when playing other new players. (They simply panic players into not-moving and attempting to out shoot them.)
But against more exprienced players a new IG player is going to get stomped. It takes awhile to realize what options to take and what to leave at home.

I would rank them as the following for playing against other newbies
1=Crons
2=Marines
3=Chaos Marines
4=IG
5=Orks
6=DemonHunters
7=nids
8=eldar
9=dark eldar
10=Tau
11=WH

If they are playing reasonably experienced players
1=Crons
2=Marines
3=Chaos
4=Orks
5=Eldar
6=Nids
7=DE
8=DemonHunters
9=IG
10=Tau
11=WitchHunters

Captain Micha
22-01-2008, 02:59
1 Space marines The best rules, best weapons, best units.... yea... can we say shoo in?
2 Chaos Marines Really this one is tied with number one... reason it's number 2? They don't get a rule that is better than fearless.
3 Tyranid Godzilla... nuff said.
4 Orks newest codex alot of potential 'shock' value here at least for the time being.
5 Tau crisis suits... and alot of harder to use than you think units.
small gap
6 Eldar Sorry, Eldar are mid pack being hard to use. Eldar players generally think too highly of themselves. Everything's use is fairly obvious, but it takes some brain power to use it properly. with exception to falcofield. (might as well trademark that )
7 Necrons people do not seem the least bit fond of giving Necron players credit. Partially I suspect because someone must have told them somewhere "necrons are auto win" They get zero special and heavy weapons. Have limited options, and many units which can be quite questionable without a good player to make them work. (but succeed well in the hands of a skilled player) which constitutes them in my opinion as a fairly advanced army.
8 Dark Eldar Really hard to use, but absolutely rape when done right.
Gap
9 Sisters of Battle Like De, except I've never seen sisters rape.
Large Gap
10 Imperial Guard They might as well call this army "lose alot" or "just body bags until the real Imperial Army shows up"
Huge gap
11 Daemonhunters Might as well be 'yellow' knights for all their effectiveness in any but the most skilled hands.

Kirasu
22-01-2008, 03:27
Dark eldar are by far the hardest to play because you have to basically claw out your own eyes in order to ignore the model range, then you have to LOVE witchs + dark lances and finally you need to hate fluff because your codex has 1.5 pages of it

AllisterCaine
22-01-2008, 03:30
It seems your opinions are very much based on guesses and in the book rules, not from in game experience. The fluff, book, and GW staff might have told you what you have written down, but in the game, things work very differently. I agree that a lot of what you say is true, but armies like the DE (which you listed as the hardest to play) is actually very easy to play, and has the same simple tatics people use over and over again. WH is easy to master, the IG IMO has got to be the hardest army to truly get it right and actually start winning games.