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edward
21-01-2008, 10:31
Right, i know they have to sell stuff but why is it in 50% of my local(ish) stores everytime i walk in and tell them what army i collect they start piling boxes into my hands telling me i need stuff, when i tell them i am just browsing. It really puts me off going to the stores, sometimes i just want to look at the painting cabinet or check out the new books but NOOO not without someone trying to give me the hard sell, do the staff work on commission?
I know this doesn't apply to all GW stores as my regular local one is fine and never puts and pressure on you at all and are quite happy for a chat about the hobby and are far more relaxed. Anyone else feel like this or am i just being a whinger?

Rick_1138
21-01-2008, 10:43
Thats unusual as staffers are told not to be pushy but to advise and edge towards a sale, (as selling is always a drive).

I would tell the guy you know what you are collecting but would like some advice on what you 'could get', rather than what the salesguy thinks you 'should get'.

my 2 pence only

Cirrus the Blue
21-01-2008, 11:02
The staff don't work on commission, however, they are all trained on those points of selling moreso than any other retail shop. This level doesn't apply to all staff though, more often it's with the inexperienced ones and it does happen quite a lot. Next time you go into a shop, you could tell a teensey little fib if the guy starts desperately trying to make a huge sale on you and say that you've already got 5000 points or something. lol

Another reason could be that they were just pushing one of their targets for the month and need just that little bit extra in order to get it. Why's this so special you ask? They get to paint their own stuff on Tuesdays. :D If they meet BOTH targets, they get to on Tuesdays AND Wednesdays. ;) That's about all the commission a GW staffer ever gets, but it's still juicy as they can take a break from the slave painting this way and that does get extraordinarilly tedious...

Imagine going into work everyday and having to run demo games, then paint stuff for the store, then run MORE demo games, then some more demo games, and painting for the store, but you still gotta get that painting done in time, but wait! MORE DEMO GAMES!!! What's this?! Your painting assignment is LATE?!?! :p It's tougher to work for GW than you'd think upon a first glance. Couple all of that with 3 lazy and/or arrogant staff members, a boss who rides your ass all the time but does little himself to fix any of these actual problems, and you caught in the middle holding the shop together with your bare hands meanwhile single handedly fending off the jerkoff mallrats in the hallway and you've got yourself a veritable party!! :D ugh...

- Cirrus

darkstar
21-01-2008, 11:30
Why's this so special you ask? They get to paint their own stuff on Tuesdays. If they meet BOTH targets, they get to on Tuesdays AND Wednesdays.
That's not universal. In fact, none of the stores I ever worked had that policy.

Cirrus the Blue
21-01-2008, 11:59
Really? Innnnnteresting.... Well, it was that way over here in Western Canada at any rate. *shrug*

- Cirrus

Tommygun
21-01-2008, 12:37
Imagine going into work everyday and having to run demo games, then paint stuff for the store, then run MORE demo games, then some more demo games, and painting for the store, but you still gotta get that painting done in time, but wait! MORE DEMO GAMES!!! What's this?! Your painting assignment is LATE?!?! :p It's tougher to work for GW than you'd think upon a first glance. Couple all of that with 3 lazy and/or arrogant staff members, a boss who rides your ass all the time but does little himself to fix any of these actual problems, and you caught in the middle holding the shop together with your bare hands meanwhile single handedly fending off the jerkoff mallrats in the hallway and you've got yourself a veritable party!! :D
- Cirrus

Do Canadians go Postal? :eek: We do it all the time in the US. When people start to talk like this here, we start looking for the fire exits!:evilgrin:

Jedi152
21-01-2008, 13:05
Be strong. They can't force you to buy stuff you don't want.

andyfair
21-01-2008, 13:24
Never had that experience and I have been in about a dozen GW's in the UK in the past year.

Gaebriel
21-01-2008, 13:25
Just smile, say thanks, you know your way around and will ask if you need some help...

NecroNurgle
21-01-2008, 13:36
Never had that experience and I have been in about a dozen GW's in the UK in the past year.

People in the UK are generally more polite and well mannered. Not to say that canadians aren't polite. But, seriously, the two national pastimes are drinking beer and playing hockey, often simultaneously.

RobC
21-01-2008, 13:40
What the pushy staff should consider is that hard selling can scare off potential customers.

A friend of mine recently popped into my local GW, not because he's a wargamer (he's not, but he does love his Talisman) but because he wanted to take a closer look at the terrain to see how it was made. The store was very busy (he described it as being like an after-school youth club) but he was immediately pounced on by a member of staff who started bombarding him with questions.

End result? Rather than having a look round and then asking questions if he wanted to, because he'd seen something he was interested in, he left the store as quickly as he could.

Stella Cadente
21-01-2008, 13:48
Your not the only one who experiences it, I still experience it in 1 store (but then the staff there quit everyday so they need to keep getting new ones in, they hate the manager), but it can be very annoying when you know what you want, you pick up what you want, and then a newb comes over who seems to know NOTHING about GW and there game systems, and starts hassling you to buy things you DON'T want, or DON'T need (usually pushed into buying marines in my case, even though I want fricking guard), I usually feel like ramming a tactical squad where the sun fails to shine

NallTWD
21-01-2008, 13:48
I never once had to sell anyone anything in the four years I worked for GW in the Boston area, (back when there was a GW Boston area...) because I had the experience to know you don't just go pushing product on folks all willy-nilly. Seriously. We're told to know our gamers, and it starts with knowing what armies they play and spirals out from there. A rookie ***** will just start throwing new figs at em. A vet will have a good grasp of rumors, storylines, how the army is played and offer possible suggestions.

Ex: "Oh hey! Space Wolves eh? How are they working for you? Beaten by Tau eh? Ugh, yeah, that low model count can hurt... Have you tried scouts? Their figs are wicked cool and they come on behind the tau with meltaguns and..."

It's not about selling, it's about knowing what will assist someone in making their army better. Are they buying something? Hell yes they are, it's a business. Am I pushing product on them? Nope. Merely offering advice on how to open up options.

My favorite was one that made me very unpopular with the players that didn't play imperium... "Hey, did you know you can take Grey Knight terminators as allies? Yeah! For real! Check these guys out..."

Heh. So many GKT's...

Matt121
21-01-2008, 14:15
GW Dublin & Blanchardstown were very pushy towards the end of my time with them, the main reason? A certain manager was shipped over from the UK as so many people had quit in every UK store he was assigned to after he became a manager, the guy was a clown to be honest, in Ireland potential customers much prefer to browse & see what 'jumps' out at them. I heard this manager go over to a guy once after he'd sent 3 minions (1 by 1) to do the hard sell. The guy was polite enough i.e. 'thank you but i'm just browsing for the moment', however on being told this the manager felt the guys weren't performing up to scratch... so he goes over... Guy just rolls his eyes & says 'Look, i've just explained to the 3 lads you made come over that i'm just browsing, you know that i'm just browsing & i have every right to do so, will you please just go away!!!'
Oh how we laughed; however the manager didn't see the funny side of being brought down a peg or 2 especially in front of his staff (oh the loss of face!), so he got the guy barred from the entire shopping centre by saying he was abusive & threatening instore when in fact the man was no such thing. Cue ongoing legal proceedings against GW. And this was back in mid 2003.

Ironbreaker
21-01-2008, 14:21
There was only one occasion where I felt somewhat pressured into the sale but the fact was I needed it anyway.
The Belfast GW has great staff and they're more than happy to help in my experience.

In fact, when I was asking about what paints to get to expand on the hobby set, the manager set a few back pointing out that they had equivalent paints in the set I had. He was right too. :)

Stella Cadente
21-01-2008, 14:23
Oh how we laughed; however the manager didn't see the funny side of being brought down a peg or 2 especially in front of his staff (oh the loss of face!), so he got the guy barred from the entire shopping centre by saying he was abusive & threatening instore when in fact the man was no such thing. Cue ongoing legal proceedings against GW. And this was back in mid 2003.
and nobody in the store who witnesed this thought to stand up for him so as to avoid legal hassle??:rolleyes:

Osbad
21-01-2008, 14:29
It doesn't irritate me now (I've been on the receiving end so long I'm immune), but it does make me sad that some of the newer GW staff try the "Which army do you collect?" line on LotR players.

On the face of it, its a fair enough starter question, but it really is selling the game short to us "more mature" players. Now, just for the record I am 39, and look it, so one would hope a 20-year-old would have at least the understanding to realise that I've quite possibly been gaming for longer than he's been alive, and so be a little more original than that on the premise that it is likely by now that I know how I like to play wargames. But sadly its rarely the case. I mean, I know lots of bewildered parents wander in, so I can forgive him for assuming that I am one of those, but he at least should allow for the possibility ...

The way I play the game is generally speaking by narrative campaign. And as I've been collecting since day 1 with LotR, I have many, many painted models to choose from. I much prefer this style of play for LotR (and to be honest for many other games) than a straight forward "army building" approach. And I know many other LotR players of my acquaintance prefer to play in the same way (at least those that came to the game out of there own volition rather than being propagandised into playing the "GW way" by some in-store programme from the age of 10! ). And I, and the other players I know find it a much more rewarding experience. And if the game were sold with that in mind, I suspect many others would too.

If an unknown staff member came up to me and asked "So, I see you are looking at LotR, do you play? What kind of games do you like playing?" I'd be delighted!

To me the naive assumption that everyone likes to play in the bland, cookie-cutter "army-building" style is selling the game short, and an educated salesperson should know that there are alternatives which if pursued might land them sales that otherwise wouldn't materialise.

*sighs*

Ah well, I guess I'll just have to keep on replying with an "All of them! Which ones do you collect?" for the time being. :D

Ironbreaker
21-01-2008, 14:35
If an unknown staff member came up to me and asked "So, you like LotR, what kind of games do you like playing?" I'd be delighted!

To me the bland assumption that everyone likes to play in the bland, cookie-cutter "army-building" style is selling the game short, and an educated salesperson should know that there are alternatives...

*sighs*

Ah well, I guess I'll just have to keep on replying with an "All of them! Which ones do you collect?" for the time being. :D

I don't know a lot about LotR so perhaps it's different but I can't see this working very well for WHFB. In fact, I would see it as possibly confusing to some players.

Osbad
21-01-2008, 14:40
I don't know a lot about LotR so perhaps it's different but I can't see this working very well for WHFB. In fact, I would see it as possibly confusing to some players.

Which is my point, it wouldn't for WFB as it is a very different game and is constructed around the concept of army-building in a way that LotR isn't really. I mean you *can* army-build with LotR, but IMHO that is a poor, monochromatic version of the real game.

The staff should be educated to make the most of the games they are selling, not just assume that they all play the same. In general it is my observation that the staff tend to know quite a bit about WFB and 40k and absolutely sod-all about LotR other than what they have been forced to learn by their manager. Staffers who actually play and collect LotR are a pretty rare bunch. Which doesn't give them much credibility when they are trying to sell LotR to me. To be honest I tend to buy LotR despite, not because of GW store staff.

Now that is a generalisation, there is at least one blue-shirt (Dave at Metro Centre/Newcastle) who is a dedicated LotR player and for whom I have the utmost respect. In fact it has been known that when I have a store purchase looming (usually I just buy paints and brushes from the store, stuff I need quick and can't be bothered to wait for postage) I go in when I know he'll be on shift so that I can put the sale through him for him to get the sale against his target ... aren't I nice :)

Most of the other staffers though I have written off as 40k fanbois with no credibility beyond that system.

As for your point about confusing players. I'm nearly 40 and quite obviously so. The day your average blue-shirter can confuse me is the day hell freezes over! If that is what's putting him off, then his training is inadequate. He should know that he should approach a 40-year-old very differently to an 11-year-old.

Of course, if he's been given insufficient training then that isn't his fault, it's GW Head Office's. Or his manager's.

My summary is that GW staff should be trained better if they actually want them to sell to anyone other than the unimaginative majority...

Khorghan
21-01-2008, 14:44
seeing as your regular store doesent do it and the others you visit are ushually doing it, my guess is its when they see an unfamiliar face in the store they assume your new-ish to the hobby.

Osbad
21-01-2008, 14:49
seeing as your regular store doesent do it and the others you visit are ushually doing it, my guess is its when they see an unfamiliar face in the store they assume your new-ish to the hobby.

Which again is my point. Please read my post...

I shall rephrase again. They shouldn't leap to such assumptions without checking facts... All they can safely assume from looking at me is that I'm nearly 40. Why should they assume anything as to my gaming background? Even if only 1 in 100 40 year-olds actually isn't a N00B, that 1% is actually someone who has potentially a lot of money to go GW's way, so should be treated with kid gloves.

But even if they did, they should learn to sell LotR on THAT game's strengths, not on the incorrect assumption that it plays identically to WFB, just because that's the only fantasy game they've actually played themselves.

As ever, LotR is the unwanted red-headed child of the GW family. It never gives you much confidence when you know more than the salesman about what you are purchasing :D

Matt121
21-01-2008, 15:21
and nobody in the store who witnesed this thought to stand up for him so as to avoid legal hassle??:rolleyes:

Eh Hello? You really think Head Office would have been told the truth by the manager in all fairness??? I can assure you they weren't! If you read some of my other posts in relation to my time in GW (Ireland) then you'll get what i mean. We were told that nobody was to speak to the guy if we saw him again or we'd be out of a job! The customer in question wasn't even allowed into the shopping centre car park afterwards for Gods sake, one of the guys i worked with in that store went to school with the guys son & gave him (the customer) a written account of what transpired on the day, Less than one week later he was given his P45!!! Reason given? Not commited to the hobby... This guy was the most passionate non annoying (very important:evilgrin:) hobbyist it was ever my pleasure to know, there wasn't anything about any army, game or rules set he didn't know, he was a fabulous painter & created some of the most incredible gaming boards & terrain i have seen in years. He worked there for several years so not being commited to the hobby just didn't ring true.
The manager is still there & still up to his usual games i.e. blame it on someone else. I could go on but that'd be going off the point but you get the idea, the truth & this guy have yet to meet.

blongbling
21-01-2008, 15:24
you have to remember that GW staff HAVE to come up and ask you about what it is you collect, play with, what you are thinking of buying and make suggestions...its their job. If you dont like it shop in an indie but if you go to a GW you ahve to be prepared for them to do it.

The way they do it will depend on the staff member and how expereinced they are, some will go through it verbatim, others will slip it into polite conversation.

I think it is wrong to say that they are pushy and not very good because they are doing what they are doing. Thats what they have to do , or they lose their jobs...its that simple

theunwantedbeing
21-01-2008, 15:31
My GW staff tend to ask what army I play and then gom from there, so as long as I am careful about what I say I have and need then I can get away with them not trying to push a sale out of me.
They tend to cotton on fairly quickly if you are new or not(assuming you have half a brain)..that and regularly appearing at veteran's night helps to keep them away.

Matt121
21-01-2008, 15:36
There is a way to do it, a good manager will allow for flexibilty as circumstances dictate & will encourage their staff to show initiative, the manager i refer to is at best incompetant & at worst dangerous. The vets night vanished under him when i was there as people couldn't stand him & the way he ran things, he just rubs people up the wrong way & to be honest i've heard him come out with a few gems in relation to well worn stereotypes about the irish, this man is the cause of the majority of lawsuits filed in Ireland against GW. He is not good at his job, he's good at lying & adjusting figures to match. When i left certain staff were terrified of him hence the hard sell because he was (still is) basically a bully.

Glabro
21-01-2008, 16:03
The manager is still there & still up to his usual games i.e. blame it on someone else. I could go on but that'd be going off the point but you get the idea, the truth & this guy have yet to meet.

What a pathetic fellow, to say the least.
I sincerely hope he can be nailed in the legal proceedings, at least.

edward
21-01-2008, 16:05
you have to remember that GW staff HAVE to come up and ask you about what it is you collect, play with, what you are thinking of buying and make suggestions...its their job. If you dont like it shop in an indie but if you go to a GW you ahve to be prepared for them to do it.

The way they do it will depend on the staff member and how expereinced they are, some will go through it verbatim, others will slip it into polite conversation.

I think it is wrong to say that they are pushy and not very good because they are doing what they are doing. Thats what they have to do , or they lose their jobs...its that simple

Why do you think its wrong to call them pushy? They obviously won't lose their jobs if they don't do it, as there are a good number without crappy staffers.

blongbling
21-01-2008, 16:29
the staff would lose their job if they dont follow the Ten C's. and this makes up apart of them.

If you reread the my post you will see that i mention that through age and experience the approach will change but they will still ask the same questions. As with a lot of things people mature up and learn how to approach people and things differently

Matt121
21-01-2008, 16:37
What a pathetic fellow, to say the least.
I sincerely hope he can be nailed in the legal proceedings, at least.


He has survived many legal proceedings so i personally don't hold much hope he'll be got rid of anytime soon, there is no-one in Ireland that he's answerable to in person on a regular basis, on occasion an area manager may arrive from the UK but always with advance warning as the 2 of them are good friends which means the area manager always backs up the managers version of events. Still, we can always hope:rolleyes:

Jedi152
21-01-2008, 17:21
The WW staff have given up approaching me now as they tend to recognise me, and have probably realised that i'm past the stage where i can be influenced into make rash buying decisions! :D

I did wonder if they'd get pi**ed off with me as i rarely spend - thinking i'm 'abusing the facilities' - but this doesn't seem to be the case! Only one WW staff member has occasionally been curt with me, but he seems nice enough and i won't mention his name.

freddythebig
21-01-2008, 17:38
I tend to find that in the GW stores that I have been in, it is very much down to different individuals as to how pushy they are. I have had good conversation with some but others have made me feel like I couldn't get away quickly enough.

Lately, if confronted by one of the 'hard sell' individuals, I have started telling them that I am only after a couple of paints for my WAB or FOW armies.

Misfratz
21-01-2008, 17:41
I've had staff be a bit pushy towards me in the past, until they've learnt to recognise me as someone who will periodically drop a lot of money in their store when left alone. I think that, done correctly, it can be a good thing to engage people in conversation - some people aren't good at asking for help, but they have to know when to back off.

I get recognised by some of the staff as I cycle about town now.

Keravin
21-01-2008, 18:00
I used to enjoy playing how long will it take for the staff member to sod off and leave me alone.

Usually it was when I mentioned the 3 Space Marine Companies, but sometimes it took longer. The staff nowadays leave me alone though I do enjoy being told that stuff I know is true is just internet rumour.

Dwarf Supreme
21-01-2008, 18:36
I've only been in a three GW stores (all in Southern New England), but I haven't found any of the staff to be pushy towards me. Of course that probably happens because after they ask me what game I play, I answer, "Epic" and make it quite clear that I play only Epic.

Fred_Scuttle
21-01-2008, 21:03
This story has a point - please be patient:

About 10 years ago a friend of mine worked at Radio Shack here in the states. About that time they started this triple-dammed policy of asking for your phone number every time you went to pay for your goods. Even for a pack of AA's or a 9 volt.

I was telling him how much this pissed me off every time I went in there ( as was a lot, being a source for computer components a block from my house. ) He told me to tell them 'Code 47' or something close to that.

In essence - that meant 'I work for Radio Shack - I don't need to be tracked or on a freaking mailing list.'

My question to the GW Store employee's on here - is there a 'nudge nudge - wink wink' we could throw out to say 'Hey -I'm hip to the sales goals - I'm just getting a bottle of Chaos Black paint?"

Fred

Matt121
21-01-2008, 21:21
My question to the GW Store employee's on here - is there a 'nudge nudge - wink wink' we could throw out to say 'Hey -I'm hip to the sales goals - I'm just getting a bottle of Chaos Black paint?"

Short answer is most likely no, but if they get to recognise you or in my case some of the kids instore used to inform staff that they needn't bother (all in the days before i was barred)

Andyalloverdaplace
21-01-2008, 21:49
Do Canadians go Postal? :eek: We do it all the time in the US. When people start to talk like this here, we start looking for the fire exits!:evilgrin:

Canadians have the same tendencies as everyone else with regard to "going Postal". The trick is, only the Americans have the firepower to back it up with enthusiasm. I'm feeling a little need to go postal right about now, as a result of working 42 hours over 3 days and being told my work can't be accepted because I didn't get the product out until this morning, instead of the end of the day Friday (like they were there over the weekend), but the people who deserve the beatings are in another city. I think I'm going to have to go slaughter my buddies marines as a proxy tonight. Or go, drink a very large Canadian beer and watch hockey, decisions, decisions.

The following helps though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRcro08qFZE&feature=related

silashand
21-01-2008, 22:07
But, seriously, the two national pastimes are drinking beer and playing hockey, often simultaneously.

And that's a bad thing? ;)

Hockey: one of the few sports where they give you full body armor and a weapon! Kinda like jousting on ice... ;)

Cheers, Gary
- Go Avs!!!

Llew
21-01-2008, 22:35
I don't think I'd put up with a salesperson putting anything in my hands uninvited. In most cases, a silent, level stare until they back away will resolve it and prevent it from happening, at least with that staffer, in the future.

Damien 1427
21-01-2008, 22:48
But, seriously, the two national pastimes are drinking beer and playing hockey, often simultaneously.

Ours are binge-drinking and Imperialism. Beat that, Johnny Colonial! :p

Oddly enough, the "pushy" staff are usually the ones that "move on" around here. Seems most of the long-term ones at least recognise me. So usually just say hello, and let me browse.

thearchiver
22-01-2008, 02:29
When I was younger and going to a GW store as in fact a rare treat, I would always get the hard sell, even thou I had only the money to buy what I went there to buy.

Now that im older and normally have more cash on me than whats in the stores till, I have a hard time getting a red shirt to wake up and walk over to me.

Thou it could be someone got smart and read all the shopping studies that show that Australians react the worst to the hard sell.

Galdur Hrafnsson
22-01-2008, 02:38
My question to the GW Store employee's on here - is there a 'nudge nudge - wink wink' we could throw out to say 'Hey -I'm hip to the sales goals - I'm just getting a bottle of Chaos Black paint?"
Fred

I got a GW messenger bag from them as a christmas present last year, and a coat at some point (being a now ex-staffer) I went into my local store at home just after leaving london, and got jumped by an enthusiastic new guy. I spoke to him for a moment, pointed out the bag, and the conversation relaxed a bit more. That worked for me... although they always try to invite me to vets night and all my armies are still packed away ;)

Jedi152
22-01-2008, 08:23
My question to the GW Store employee's on here - is there a 'nudge nudge - wink wink' we could throw out to say 'Hey -I'm hip to the sales goals - I'm just getting a bottle of Chaos Black paint?"

Fred
Easy. Chat to them for a bit about the hobby, then when they ask what you came in for, just say "i only actually dropped in to pick up some paint." Then wander off and get some, pay for it and leave.

Osbad
22-01-2008, 10:48
My question to the GW Store employee's on here - is there a 'nudge nudge - wink wink' we could throw out to say 'Hey -I'm hip to the sales goals - I'm just getting a bottle of Chaos Black paint?"

Stopping washing so that the acne and BO build up again, putting on around 50 lbs, wearing a stained and baggy sweat shirt, and carrying an Apocalypse backpack while only breathing through your mouth ought to do it... ;)

Ward.
22-01-2008, 11:07
Or cutting arm and head holes into a gw bag then wearing it everytime you walk past the store before coming in should give them a heads up :)

Patriarch
22-01-2008, 12:00
Say "I'm just looking at what you have so I can buy it on eBay later"

Dominus_Serui
22-01-2008, 12:45
I'm pleased to say that the closest to giving me the 'Hard Sell[' my local GW gets up to is asking me if I'm stocked up on paints and hobby gear - which is usually helpful as I have been known to walk out with models I then couldn't paint later, and is probably why they do it - other than that the only time they've been known to suggest that I should buy something goes along the lines of...'buy Bloodbowl, its brilliant!' and any staffer that promotes specialist games is alright by my book.

The only time I've seen them engage people directly, is when kids with parents or older guys come in for a look around - most of the time the initial questions are 'do you collect the hobby' and then if the parent or unaccompanied adult says no, they'll explain the hobby and suggest starting - that said I think they know everyone who plays GW games round here anyway.

Lezta
22-01-2008, 14:31
Yeah, they do make it hard for you in all the ones I've ever been in. They make you feel horrible if you go there just to browse, because they're essentially saying you should be buying something. It's something all my friends comment on too - I think it's because GW is unusual in that respect (in England, at least). I don't know of any other store that has it's employees give you the hard sell in the same way. It almost seems a little old fashioned, and certainly a lot desperate.

Osbad
22-01-2008, 14:34
On the other hand, how many other stores attract a crowd of bored teenagers with no money to spend? Most shopkeepers try to discourage interest from customers who aren't likely to spend anything... GW has amazing tolerance in that regard. Wander into a newsagent and just stand around reading the headlines of the newspapers and see how much love you attract from the proprietor... :)

Capitán Sánchez
22-01-2008, 15:12
I usually tell them "I play Dogs of War and only want metal models" :evilgrin:

In my case it works.

(In my case it is true, on the other hand :D)


Thank you

Matt121
22-01-2008, 18:57
Say "I'm just looking at what you have so I can buy it on eBay later"


:D Brilliant!!!:D

Jim30
22-01-2008, 19:36
When confronted with pushy staff I have 3 fail safe lines:


"what army so you collect?" - Flames of War

"what about buying X" - no thanks I've (usually) got the originals as I've been playing for 20 years.

"what about buying X" - no thanks, they're cheaper on ebay which is where I get my stuff now (said loudly next to new looking customers!)

Trench_Raider
22-01-2008, 19:52
I love those last few posts!

When the GW employee asks me the "What army do you collect" question I love to say "Squats and Space Slann!". I'm amazed how many GW employees that have looked back at me with a blank look on thier face and said "What are those?".

But seriously, I've found the phenomenon of the pushy staffer to the be rule rather than the exception.

TR

- Human
22-01-2008, 20:37
I also find it to be the rule as opposed to the exception. It really bugs me that I can't just flip through a new codex in peace.

I've never been pressured into buying anything, though... I don't really assign value to what they have to say (as harsh as it sounds!)

Verm1s
22-01-2008, 22:54
"what about buying X" - no thanks, they're cheaper on ebay which is where I get my stuff now (said loudly next to new looking customers!)

Then what? Do you giggle and high-five yourself?

For crying out loud, I don't know why people feel proud of themselves for crap like that. D'you think it's an especially mature thing to do? D'you think you're the bleedin' Zorro of the miniature wargames circuit or something? Grow up and try not to be so much of a troll.

Templar Ben
23-01-2008, 00:16
Perhaps he feels that is the best way to get GW to change their sales strategy? I don't bemoan people making up nonsense words like "D'you" so why fault him for his little poke at GW?

Keep in mind he said "pushy staff" not random salesperson trying to be friendly.

Ironbreaker
23-01-2008, 00:43
Perhaps he feels that is the best way to get GW to change their sales strategy? I don't bemoan people making up nonsense words like "D'you" so why fault him for his little poke at GW?

Keep in mind he said "pushy staff" not random salesperson trying to be friendly.

They're not going to change their sale strategy because someone's speaking loudly to deter other people from buying from them. They're more likely to kick him out and rightfully so.

I like the interest that the local GW shows. Even just popping in for a box of troops they're ready to talk about the hobby. :)

Templar Ben
23-01-2008, 01:06
You are right. Protesting company practice doesn't work.

Natually they can force anyone they want out of their store. I don't fault them for removing anyone even for no reason. I also don't have a problem with people saying that GW is ripping people off even in a GW store.

The concern wasn't them talking about the hobby. The concern was them trying to push product on customers and people responding in a manner to get them to back off.

Verm1s
23-01-2008, 01:24
It's not a made up word. It's a contraction. 'D'you'. 'Do you'. See the apostrophe?

And there are better ways to go about it.

Templar Ben
23-01-2008, 01:40
Sorry I couldn't find d'you in my dictionary. I also didn't find it on dictionary.com. Or under google define: d'you. My mistake, I presumed that it was made up when it isn't defined. ;)

There may be better ways to go about it. I can understand the frustration of going into GW to get one item. You know the item you want. When someone suggests something else you know you don't want you tell them so. They then suggest something else. This continues until you leave. I can see someone responding exactly as described. I have not done so but that doesn't mean that I am surprised at all.

Ironbreaker
23-01-2008, 01:53
The concern wasn't them talking about the hobby. The concern was them trying to push product on customers and people responding in a manner to get them to back off.

I know; that wasn't in response to you.
It was an indirect response to people saying that in some places it's hard to get the staff to pay attention to you.

Jim30
23-01-2008, 12:16
"For crying out loud, I don't know why people feel proud of themselves for crap like that. D'you think it's an especially mature thing to do? D'you think you're the bleedin' Zorro of the miniature wargames circuit or something? Grow up and try not to be so much of a troll."

Ouch touched a nerve haven't I! I've been using GW shops for 20 years and you know what, you know there is a problem when you feel stressed going in somewhere because you know within 10 seconds you'll be having stuff pushed on you. My default answer is "I don't need any help" - if they keep at it then I start with the "I'll buy it on e-bay" - why do I do this? Because it gets the message that I won't be spending money with them on that product so they're wasting their time trying to flog it to me.

When I walk into a store I want a quick "hi, let me know if you need any help" and then I expect to be left alone until I ask for assistance. I'll be polite and friendly, but I want to be left alone in a GW Store. Do this and you get my money, don't get the hint and I'll walk out and put my business elsewhere.

Nephilim of Sin
23-01-2008, 16:25
What I find interesting, at least from a stateside perspective, is that this has happened at every single job I worked at. Well, every retail oriented job. Having the unfortunate opportunity to work at fast food, we always had to 'suggestive sale' items, of course this was done without care or feeling just because we had to, and we were trying to milk the customer and keep them moving. I didn't stay there long. However, the worst instance was when I worked for a main video store.

Person walks in, you great them. Never a personal greeting, but you make it sound like such. Then, we would have one person dedicated (if we were lucky) to follow everyone around and make sure that they talked to them, and then tried to up-sale them a product. Anytime one of us walked around for any other reason anything, we had to do the same. Then, if the customer wandered around a bit, someone would have to go up to them again. Once they got to the register, we would have to suggest again. If they already had one product, then we had to suggest something else. Even if they had all of the current promotions, then we would have to suggest something for them to buy. Needless to say, people started getting very rude with us, and understandably so. It is just the same; you walk into a place regularly, and their is someone who is always trying to sale you something. It gets annoying, and I hated doing it. However, we had 'secret' or 'mystery' shoppers, so if we did not do our job, there was the potential of getting fired (same with any other retail experience I have had). So, it is not just central to GW, here at least.

One thing I would like to touch on though; one reason we would 'suggestive sell' to customers when they had not been to the register yet is theft-prevention. The theory is, everyone is a potential thief, and the more you talk to the customer and follow them around, the less of a chance there is for them to steal. Perhaps there is something there that relates to GW? After all, as had been mentioned, most places would consider it 'loitering' if you stay there for a while without buying anything. I have had to throw out a lot of people from different jobs I have worked at for the same thing. The longer people stay, the more people let their guard down, and the easier it is for them to steal. Just a few thoughts.....

Stella Cadente
23-01-2008, 17:16
Then what? Do you giggle and high-five yourself?

For crying out loud, I don't know why people feel proud of themselves for crap like that. D'you think it's an especially mature thing to do? D'you think you're the bleedin' Zorro of the miniature wargames circuit or something? Grow up and try not to be so much of a troll.
It must be "that time" of the month

A13X
24-01-2008, 01:16
Often the GW staff at my store can get annoying. They're all really nice people and are willing to help with any painting/gaming or hobby questions and are up fro a game almost at any time but it does sometimes get a bit irritating when they are overly nice. By this I mean sometimes I just want to walk around the shop and check out the displayed and watch the games being played without being asked what army I play by 3-4 different staffers as I walk.

Crazy Harborc
24-01-2008, 01:41
Apparently, our local store has a list of people NOT to hassle when they come in. We get a hi how's it going?

A couple of weeks ago I was looking for an excuse to use the GW Christmas gift card I had received. The red shirt (known him for 3 plus years now) ask what I wanted....I told him a box of Slann wariors and or a box of Slann on cold ones. He also laid down a battailion box....Did NOT say a word, just let me read. Let me do the math, compare prices. Reminded myself I had that card burning a hole in my pocket (more money to stay in my wallet.;)

Maybe it's just that the local GW store employs (mental)adults. I have asked family and friends who have been in the store how they were treated? All say about the same......they were friendly, offered to help. Did NOT push for higher amounts on the gift cards (Gee, I wish they/the red shirts did THAT:evilgrin:)

EDIT TIME

I was informed of a BIG goof. I called Saurus warriors Slann. Then again I goofed and printed Slann on cold ones, instead of saurus on coldones. Sorry I goofed, just had a senior moment I guess.

yabbadabba
24-01-2008, 03:03
I don't know whether these posts make me laugh or cringe

One of the problems in the UK is we are bloody crap at complaining. GW staff are trained to do what they do. If done correctly what you should have is a simple, soft conversation that makes you feel relaxed, and then the staff member should have correctly "assessed" who you are as a customer and gauged his sales approach - often "promote", "suggest" or "forget it" - and all the time this should be linked to what hobby advice the customer needs (including none at all - back away!).

If you walk into a GW store and you don't like the staff's sales approach then it is actually a reflection of the manager or area manager's approach to sales. During times like these for GW, most managers don't have the courage to stick to simple sales techniques and training their staff to actually look at their customers as individuals.

Me - I complain. I talk to the staff member as if they are human. I let them know my name and where they went wrong in their assessment of me. I then ask to speak to the manager and tell him my dissatisfaction. If I don't get the right response I leave with no purchase. In the forefrot of my mind is that it is not the staff member's fault.

I often find a simple "I am just looking around at the moment - can I come to you if I need anything?" often works a treat for a quiet 5 minutes browse.

RobC
24-01-2008, 10:29
A couple of weeks ago I was looking for an excuse to use the GW Christmas gift card I had received. The red shirt (known him for 3 plus years now) ask what I wanted....I told him a box of Slann wariors and or a box of Slann on cold ones.Did you get a time machine for Christmas too? Or does your store really carry stock that's not been available from the 80s?

If it's either of the latter, let me know: I have an urge for Jokaero ;)

noneedforaname
24-01-2008, 13:17
basic points about GW staff members.

1)they must great a customer as they come in the store.
2)they must asses the customers needs and wants and inform them accordingly,
3)they must promote the hobby
4)they must find a way to improve your enjoyment of the hobby.

if they fail to do this they will lose there jobs.

if when asked you politely reply clearly to there enquiry giving them the information they need they can asses wether you need helping or leaving alone.

a simple grunted no means they will ask another open question so will not get rid of them if they are following the above points correctly.

answer them politely and if you dont need help the usual response will be "ok ill leave you to look around, shout if you need anything"

if you are courteous that courtesy will be returned.

Regulars are not addressed in that manner as the staff will already have built up a rapport with them and will generally know what they need to already.

You will also find if you are a polite regular customer then the staff will go out of there way to do even more for you.

If you are ignorant they will not help you, i can guarantee the staff member wont change regiment boxes to battalions to save money when the contents are the same.

As for the guys who suggested saying they shop on ebay or to sugggest to other shoppers to buy from ebay you have to remember two things.

1)GW already sold it once
2)you will usually be made to feel incredibley unwelcome, and find it extremely difficult to use store facilities.

Go stand in carphone warehouse and tell customers to get there phones elsewhere because there cheaper and see what happens.

Having knowledge about the people in your store reduces shoplifting aswell, we can spot likely thiefs by there behaviour and answers, GW is a highly valued product for shoplifters as it sells so well on ebay.

Templar Ben
24-01-2008, 13:45
As for the guys who suggested saying they shop on ebay or to sugggest to other shoppers to buy from ebay you have to remember two things.

1)GW already sold it once
2)you will usually be made to feel incredibley unwelcome, and find it extremely difficult to use store facilities.

Go stand in carphone warehouse and tell customers to get there phones elsewhere because there cheaper and see what happens.

Depends on where you are I suppose. We have a GW player that is opening his own store and everyone knows that once that happens GW will just be the place for new people (if any were to come along) and the place to go play with GW minis. If GW wishes to make you feel unwelcome (more so than pushing product on you) then that is naturally their right as a shop owner. Perhaps where you are GW stores actually have a lot of people inside. I have heard of stores like that.


Having knowledge about the people in your store reduces shoplifting aswell, we can spot likely thiefs by there behaviour and answers, GW is a highly valued product for shoplifters as it sells so well on ebay.

That would explain why you can see GW boxes go for 50% of retail.

noneedforaname
24-01-2008, 14:36
GW doesn't have a problem with Indie retailers per se. in fact they make more profit per item seling to indie retailers at wholesale price than they do selling in there stores due to overheads.

the problem comes they actively advertise in a GW store, word of mouth gets round without direct advertising. Therefore it is only the exceptionaly brazen that do this.

Problems being that for new gamers there is no after sales support, kids dont learn to paint or game from web traders. Also when a product is wrong then GW are very good at replacing the products with no hassle, not so much with web traders.

The most troubling thing i find is when they come in telling children under 16 to log onto there website, approaching them directly and trying to build a rapport with them. These people are not CRB checked and could potentially have seriously bad motives behind having little kiddies log onto there website. Parents view GW as a safe enviromnet for Kids, when a situation like this happens it can potentially close a store.

This is a situation that has arisen in the past, a webtrader, who i wont name came into a store, approached young children offering them free miniatures and business cards so they can check out his products and talk on his forums.

This person is no longer welcome in that store.

Mr. Smuckles
24-01-2008, 15:54
I can only stand the forced conversations with the GW store staff after a fat line of cocaine in the parking lot. That's about the only time I find my energy level to be on par with theirs.

Pelskwig
24-01-2008, 16:14
Don't you find said enthusiasm refreshing in the hum drum hole of mental greyness and obliqueness that is "Retail" ?

SneakyChris
24-01-2008, 16:32
Wouldnt it be best if you were just polite and explained to them 'Im here for xyz, I dont want to have a hobby conversation (with you) right now'.
Now if after that they keep being pushy then they are not obeying the ten commandments............Show courtesy and be attentive. Good customer service.
I hate it when a customer comes in and just grunts at me after ive said hello and asked whats brought him down here today, case like this last monday, I said if he needed help to come and speak to me. He just looked through me (rude). But then he came over to me 10 min later asking for help. Well I gave him it, with a smile, but I couldnt help but feel iratated that some people just cant be polite, you know its our job. Was I being pushy? Just saying hello and what brings you down here?
Let me ask you this question, would it be better for GW people to be just sat there, not greeting you (rarther impersonaly), and by you I mean all people who enter the store? Would that have an effect on the number of people who were recruited into the hobby. Also wouldnt that mean we arnt telling you about other events on at the store, like tornys. You might miss out on something new. Maybe a tactic you havent thought of. Some of these conversations arnt geared around getting you to the till. Alot are about the hobby. Most staff can be very helpful.
BTW, I have seen some pushy staff in my time, and I know what alot of you have gone through. But it looks like this is just going to be something you have to put up with for now at least, training issues maybe? Please try to be polite.
Yabbaddabba has got the right idea. Constructive feedback!

Mr. Smuckles
24-01-2008, 16:33
Don't you find said enthusiasm refreshing in the hum drum hole of mental greyness and obliqueness that is "Retail" ?

Honestly, yes. The manager of my local GW is excellent to talk to and I quite enjoy his enthusiasm, as he is an old vet much like myself and I can tell that he is actually earnest in his conversation.

For every one guy like this, however, there are about 6 other sales people (locally, anyway) that either don't know how to make casual conversation or have mistaken such for a hamfisted sales pitch fraught with excessive energy. The end effect is that they come off anywhere between remarkably pushy to overtly corny, which really sours my milk.

Coolhand
24-01-2008, 19:35
My experience of GW stores has been of excellent customer service and friendly down to earth staff. I’ve spent many an hour browsing and chatting in store without buying a bean and have had no hassle or pressure selling.

My wife and mother-in – law have also both been in to buy me gifts and only have praise for the staff and believe me they both like complaining alot. ;)

Crazy Harborc
25-01-2008, 02:18
Did you get a time machine for Christmas too? Or does your store really carry stock that's not been available from the 80s?

If it's either of the latter, let me know: I have an urge for Jokaero ;)

Nope, just a goof up. I should have called them Saurus Warriors and Saurus on Coldones.

Chewbacacabra
25-01-2008, 17:17
I stopped going to my local GW store when the Baneblade kit got released. I went in for a Lictor and a box of Warriors so you could draw the conclusion that I play Tyranids. The shop manager hit me with the full court press of "You gotta buy the Baneblade!" "Uh dude...I play Tyranids...I don't need a $100 tank" "NO! BUY THIS! YOU MUST!" It wasn't the first time I'd gotten the heavy sales pressure but it was by far the most blatant "spend money just to spend money" approach I'd seen there. Its ridiculous. I'll take $100 worth of stuff to the counter and he'd be after me to drop another $100 on things that I don't have use for.
I was so turned off by the whole thing that I haven't been back since. Fortunately, an independent gaming store opened near me recently and has the full GW line

Pleasurepain
25-01-2008, 20:02
I hate it when a customer comes in and just grunts at me after I've said hello and asked what's brought him down here today...

If you actually want the answer, the problem is the second bit. The "hello" is fine. The second bit is a question about the customer, and you're getting into dangerous territory there.

Englishmen are a bit strange. It's true. As a society we value personal privacy and space more than almost any other, to a degree verging on the debilitating. When we see an American, say, quite normally and friendly (for the rest of the world) greet someone with: "Hi! My name's Randy Johnson. I work for Walmart in Tucson. This is my wife Joanna, she works in a service station and plays the violin, and my kids Hughy, Frank and Jimbob. Hughy's in fourth grade, but his teacher says he's sixth grade at maths, Frank's on the school baseball team... [etc]" we English raise our eyebrows at each other as if to say "Is he a bit soft in the head?" To an Englishman, even his name is classified information! We will probably not even say hello properly to a stranger, more likely nod our head uncomfortably in recognition when we think no-one's looking, talk about the weather, the football, the prime minister, anything but ourselves. Upon leaving we might think to say, if we risk it, "I'm sorry, I didn't catch your name." Then, it might just be acceptable for our aquaintance to disclose such a secret piece of personal information. In such a culture, a direct question about themselves from a stranger is a form of psychological assault to most English people!

Alright, so I'm overdoing it in my description, but not by very much. You will never get along with strangers, including customers, in England by asking them direct questions about themselves, like "What brings you down here?" "What army do you collect?" or "Have you played this game before?" It's none of your business quite frankly Mr. Forward Stranger, and if I want to tell you I will in my own time thankyou very much!

Seriously, if you want to get information from someone, the best way to do it is by mutual disclosure: you tell them some small tidbit about yourself, they fell obliged to reciprocate, and you continue thusly with gradually more and more "private" revelations (bearing in mind that even your name counts as private!). The problem you have in a shop atmosphere is that you have to do it naturally: any falseness will be sniffed out immediately. If you can't manage to do it naturally, you're probably better off saying nothing at all beyond: "Hello, if you need any help just shout." Certainly if you're unsure, talk about the product (neutral, impersonal "safe" ground, after all we're here to buy things, you're here to sell them), not the customer's gaming (personal information, highly presumptuous!) or anything that ends in a question mark.

Anyway, that's what's seen as the "pushiness," the personal questioning, (Yes, even about complete trivia!) by strangers. And it goes without saying that blatantly forced, un-natural personal questioning is even worse.

mechu95
25-01-2008, 22:18
I must say that I'm surprised that so many people complain about the pushy staff. At my local GW I've never seen any of the staff making someone buy something, in fact even the manager is always quite jolly himself (or he sticks a fake smile on his face). Maybe it's just because of the crappy managers at some stores?

newpaintbrush
27-01-2008, 10:50
Right, i know they have to sell stuff but why is it in 50% of my local(ish) stores everytime i walk in and tell them what army i collect they start piling boxes into my hands telling me i need stuff, when i tell them i am just browsing. It really puts me off going to the stores, sometimes i just want to look at the painting cabinet or check out the new books but NOOO not without someone trying to give me the hard sell, do the staff work on commission?
I know this doesn't apply to all GW stores as my regular local one is fine and never puts and pressure on you at all and are quite happy for a chat about the hobby and are far more relaxed. Anyone else feel like this or am i just being a whinger?

Sometimes GW store managers tell their staff to go for the hard sell. So if you have two GW employees in the store, they're watching each other, and if at least one of them doesn't try to hard sell you, the other one may tell the manager that the other guy is an idiot.

So there you go. Hard sell.

Personally, whenever I'm subjected to hard sell, I walk out, buy the product elsewhere, and maybe come back in three or four months to see if the policy has changed.

jonnywright104
27-01-2008, 11:12
I think, as staff myself, u all have to remember that although we all love the hobby, we love to get paid aswel!!? so if we are told to do something one way. .. . thats the way we have to do it! i personally dont like the hard sell method, and i think ther are better ways to sell to people, ie talking to them about THEIR hobby and then being able to help/make suggestions that way. i think GW sometimes forget that our main market is teenagers who dont have copious amounts of cash and so just because they dont buy something on one day, doesnt mean theyr not going to come bak in a month when they have saved up their pocket money to get it! : )

jonnywright104
27-01-2008, 11:13
And no . .we dont work on commission at all. we work on the fact that we dont want the wide end of a brush shoved up our **** if we dont hit target lol

Templar Ben
27-01-2008, 15:12
And no . .we dont work on commission at all. we work on the fact that we dont want the wide end of a brush shoved up our **** if we dont hit target lol

Either way it motivates. ;)

Do they normally track sales by individual?

Apocalypse
27-01-2008, 16:52
I've been in GW a few times... The only time I was approached by a store person, was while I was checking out and asked for the 40k dice-the ones with the bullethole pips. He begged me not to buy them, and even opened a pack and showed me how crappy they were. He kept saying how they were such overpriced peices of crap, it would be stupid to spend $ on them. He actually said this to me, and he was still working there a year later when I went again.
That is my kinda salesman. Looking out for number 1. Me.

jonnywright104
27-01-2008, 23:28
yeah we get tracked individually as well as as a store. i have to agree with him on that. . we do overprice certain things. . . .like £8 clippers!?! wtf!!?