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Lardidar
21-01-2008, 19:09
Hello all,

This is the list I am planning on running during the 2008 tournament season. This will be 2-3 Rouge Trader events, The Yorkshire open, Carnage (if I can make it) and the GT.

It is heavily based off the list posted on Avians superb website. I think it is solid while still being orc like.

Black orc warboss - Akk'rit axe, best boss 'at, kickin' boots, heavy armour, shield and boar - 263
Black orc big boss - Battle standard, Spirit totem, heavy armour, shield and boar - 180
Night goblin shaman - Sneaky staff of stealin - 100

23 Boys - Shield, Command - 168
23 Boys - Shield, Command - 168
25 Boys - Xtra choppa, command - 205
20 Night Goblins - musician, 1 fanatic - 89
20 Night Goblins - musician, 1 fanatic - 89
5 Wolf riders - Musician - 71
5 Wolf riders - Musician, Bows - 76
5 Spider riders - Musician - 71
5 Spider riders - Musician - 71

Boar Chariot - 80
Wolf Chariot - Extra gobbo - 63
2 Spear Chuckas - 70
8 Squig Hoppers - 120

Troll - 40
Doomdiver - 80

Total = 2000pts

Now I know I wont be compeating for the top spots but then with my tactical knowhow that was probably not going to happen anyway.

Would you be happy to play against this list? I hate those dull lists you see every tournament and wanted to try and take somthing you don't see much.

All comments are welcome as none of this stuff is even bought yet it is not too late to iron out any problems.

Thanks,

Briohmar
21-01-2008, 19:21
A couple of points to make here. The boys with shields I assume are for the characterswhich runs the units 6X4. This means that 2 casualties and you lose a rank. I would recomend that you get one more boy per to take them up to 5X5's, then you have room for a couple of deaths. 1 Troll is not going to do much for you except fail a critical stupidity test. You could probably lose him to bolster up the boys, and maybe look for a way to work in a goblin BSB with Rowdy Grots Banner. Obviously your shaman is there for magic defense, just think what three additionall dispell dice would do for you.

Boar chariots look cool, and everybody has at least one lying around, but they're not very good points for value compared to other things in the list. By killing the boar chariot off, you could probably fund the BSB.

Just my first take. Always like to see greenies in a tourney.

Lardidar
21-01-2008, 19:27
Unless I'm wrong the characters on boars would allow me to run 5x5 .... giving 6 cas to take a rank (I may be wrong about this)

Chiungalla
21-01-2008, 19:37
You are right.

And I would be happy to play against this list, from a high elf point of view.
Great numbers but no very hard hitting troops.
Many points you get easy with shooting.
And an overall slow army.

Briohmar
21-01-2008, 19:37
Good point, I missed the boars. OK, but I stand by my other points, well sort of, I'm as sure that it will work as any good greenskin warboss could be. Of course there's always the slightest chance something could go wrong, but orcs needn't worry about that, right?

Lardidar
21-01-2008, 19:48
I am not sure how to speed it up Chiungalla

2 Boar mounted chars, 2 Chariots, 4 units of fast cav and the potentially fast hoppers.

Would you shooting target the sub 100 point units or would you pump shots into the blocks of boys.

bigbear bailey
21-01-2008, 21:41
Briomar= I couldn't disagree with you more on almost every post I have read of your man... Lord... Ther banner is rowdy banner is only good IF you want the goblins to hold... If he wanted the NG's to hold he would have made them have nets, 30 stronge, and spears so NO the banner that you said was a waist... 1 Troll is great. It is vcheap enough to charge with a unit of boys and add almost always 2 wounds to the combat count and if you make it sit next the the warboss he almost never fails a leadership. They are good speed bumps, a cheap unit to take a pounding from the enemy, and they can make some one rethink of charging warmachines with a 360 movement troll hanging out... I like pump wagons better but they are just as good and a little more reliable...


As for the list not being fast, it's good man. I think everyone should ALWAYS use all their hero slots so make a gobbo big boss to ride in the chariot with the Pig sticka and you have a good unit that can mess some people up...

If you want to use stuff that people don't use that often then try a unit of regular gobbos in there. NG's have taken over war hammer due to the new box set so it is cool to see them fight it out instead. I like to give them shields and them make them a good 25 man unit. They can take a pounding that way and are a good anvil (with the general near by) to let the orks run in and smash whatever they are fighting to dust...

Just my thoughts...

Chiungalla
22-01-2008, 10:14
I would shoot the sub 100 point units with arrows, and the chariots with repeater bolthrowers and the reaver bow.

Swordmasters and Dragon Princes are perfectly capable of dealing with big blocks of orcs. And I am also willing to try white lions for this task.

And the squigg hoppaz are nearly worthless against ASF high elves.

-----

As an orc & goblin player, I will speed the list up, by using blackorcs (automatic 6 on the Waaagh!), Big 'Uns with Waaaghbanner for my general (on the Waaagh!-Turn 2W6+8 inches charge), and maybe a fire and forget unit of savage orc boar boys.

The scrollcaddy can take one of the chariots, to make free a special choice, and he will add unit strengh 5 to the chariot, after the scrolls are used.

In your list, boar heroes are not fast at all.
They need to stick with there units.

Your chariots are fast, that is right.
And your fast cavalry is fast, but will not survive for long, and can not declare charges on very many units often seen in competative tournaments.

Belerophon709
22-01-2008, 10:31
and they can make some one rethink of charging warmachines with a 360 movement troll hanging out...

While they do have 360 movement, they don't have 360 vision, so it's not that big of a threat as you would like it to be.
Secondly, having the troll sit back with the warmachines would mean holding back your general as well, or the troll won't be sitting back for very long as it will fail its' stupidity test and start moving forward.

As for the comment about Briohmar, I couldn't disagree with you more. Briohmar almost always gives sound advice.

Briohmar
22-01-2008, 11:16
Briomar= I couldn't disagree with you more on almost every post I have read of your man... Lord... Ther banner is rowdy banner is only good IF you want the goblins to hold... If he wanted the NG's to hold he would have made them have nets, 30 stronge, and spears so NO the banner that you said was a waist...

So your argument that +3 Dispell dice is a poor choice for an army that has one mage with no dispell scrolls? How odd that you should think such a thing. Most people would suggest that the BSB I'm recommending is a pretty useful guy. I would put him in a unit of 20 NGs with short bows and keep them in the back, out of sight of most things and just limit the hell out of opponents magic.


1 Troll is great. It is vcheap enough to charge with a unit of boys and add almost always 2 wounds to the combat count and if you make it sit next the the warboss he almost never fails a leadership. They are good speed bumps, a cheap unit to take a pounding from the enemy, and they can make some one rethink of charging warmachines with a 360 movement troll hanging out... I like pump wagons better but they are just as good and a little more reliable...

One troll is dog food in most games I play. He has less toughness than a spawn of chaos, and no where near the reliability. If he is not within 12 inches of the general he will just wander off on his own and drool. A single troll still only has a 90 degree charge arc, so any fool could easily outmaneuver him, but you're right he can MOVE 360 degrees, if he doesn't fail his stupidity test. Of course if you want to keep your warboss static in your own deployment zone, then why bother playing orcs? Why not go dwarves, they certainly don't want to move forward and come to grips with the enemy. Clearly he has tooled up his characters for CC, and not defense, which is apparently what you recommend. By the way trolls aren't unbreakable, so even if his one troll does a vomit attack against a unit of knights, he'll lose by one at the very minimum, though three knights will still get to take their attacks including a champion most likely, so anticipate at least one non-regenerated wound. so losing by two. Again if the General isn't in the immediate vicinity that troll is very dead. Or one fireball will do a number on him, or burning head, or any number of other nasty things.



As for the list not being fast, it's good man. I think everyone should ALWAYS use all their hero slots so make a gobbo big boss to ride in the chariot with the Pig sticka and you have a good unit that can mess some people up...

If you want to use stuff that people don't use that often then try a unit of regular gobbos in there. NG's have taken over war hammer due to the new box set so it is cool to see them fight it out instead. I like to give them shields and them make them a good 25 man unit. They can take a pounding that way and are a good anvil (with the general near by) to let the orks run in and smash whatever they are fighting to dust...

Just my thoughts...

I think he has plenty of speed for a greenskin force as well, I however disagree with goblins being worthwhile anymore. A big block of regular goblins (say 30) with light armor, hand weapon and shield, is now 120 points, where it was 90 points before. Same old goblins, same lousy WS and LD, just bunch more points. 20 NGs can still be a delivery system for fanatics, which truly is their only purpose in life. Unless you arm them with shortbows and keep them in the rear to protect the artillery.

I don't mind someone dis-agreeing with me, or my tactical observations, but if you do so, please do it with some dignity, and some logical explanations other than I disagree with everything you've ever said about anything.

Cheers

Lardidar
22-01-2008, 11:20
Hmm, some food for thought.

I agree that the squigs would be nigh on useless fighting high elves, I have not played or seen them played in the new rules yet so it will be a suprise when I do.

I think my best bet is to buy the stuff and play as many games as I can get in, try a fine tune it that way.

EDIT - I'm a tad confused .... isnt the Grot banner re roll panic, where you getting the +3 dispel? I heartily agree about goblins though ... plus the mini's suck :)

Belerophon709
22-01-2008, 11:31
Briohmar obviously means Mork's Spirit Totem, otherwise he wouldn't have referred to it with the +3 DD in his original post...

Briohmar
22-01-2008, 11:57
Thanks, please bear in mind I do most of this while away from my war room. Sometimes I don't get everything right off the top of my head. But also note, I will always admit when I've made a mistake. I really thought it was the rowdy banner that gave the DD = to unit ranks.

jigplums
22-01-2008, 12:00
he already had it in the list anyway and its an orks only item.

Lardidar
22-01-2008, 12:00
I already have that in the origional list,

Maybe it was missed or maybe it would be better on a goblin rather than a black orc boss.

Think ill buy some blocks of boys first, gives me time to think about the rest.

EDIT - I type too slow, I write my messege and there are 3 more replys :) .... thanks for the advice, keep it coming if you have any more.

happy_doctor
22-01-2008, 12:53
I have to admit that I like that list a lot!

It seems like fun to play with and against, and it's fairly balanced.
Your units lack the combat power of Savage orcs, Boar Boys, Black Orcs and the such, but with careful use of fast cavalry and the fighty characters in them, you'll be fighting the battle in your own terms.

What i don't like/am sceptical about:

- The amount of magic defense: 7 dispel dice seems too much to me, especially with such high numbers. You're still paying an embarrassingly low price for them, though, so you may as well keep them. (Elves get 3 dice and 2 scrolls for the price of your 7 dice)

-The troll sure has its uses, but i'd prefer a pump wagon. you can still use it to redirect chargers and IF it manages to crush onto a unit, you'll be a really happy general!;)

-Your list is 4 points over the 2000 points mark. You can amend this by dropping the bows from your wolf riders.

-Mounting the mage on a chariot is a good idea, as it will transform him from a 100-point scroll caddy to a 160-point rank-breaker. If you choose to go down this route, however, it would be prudent ro swap the staff of sneaky stealing for a scroll or two. (something you won't miss when your mage dies)

-Would you consider a small squig herd as a speed bump? (providing you free up that special slot by making the chariot a character's mount) It is fairly durable against shooting (can't be killed by a single bolt thrower), and it makes for a nice surprise if it gets charged by a cavalry unit. just place the herders in front and the keeps the squigs out of combat, so that they survive long enough to explode.

Lardidar
22-01-2008, 13:05
Now that is some nice advice, thanks

I can soon amend the 4pts thing ...

I like the idea of the chariot mage, the staff is to take a power dice off the opponent but I suppose a scroll may well be better.

I was torn between a troll nd a pump wagon, I may get both and try them out, I can see uses in both units but the pump wagon feels more orcy to me :p

The more squigs the better! ... If I can find some points I would take a tiny unit.

Hmmm ... too many decisions to make.