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baldbeachbum
22-01-2008, 05:17
I've ranted and raved about the new codex for weeks now. And come to an epiphany. I like that damn thing! So the marines get there way. Against every other army the orks just got better! Well excluding necrons but they don't seem to wine. :)

So my point is the orks get a big boosta against IG, Tau, Eldar, DEldar, and Nids. Now if those burnas and tankbusta could ride in a trukk! Darn the luck.

TzeentchForPresident
22-01-2008, 16:24
How did Orks got worse vs marines?

RampagingRavener
22-01-2008, 16:29
They didn't. From what I've played, the combination of more Boyz, better Shootaz, and Furious Charge easily makes up for the loss of Choppas. Terminators get a bit harder to kill, but it was kinda bizarre how quickly Orks could tear through them in the last codex.

sabreu
22-01-2008, 16:39
Actually, I second Orks getting worse against marines and better against everyone else.

The old choppa really meant Marines were in more danger against the basic boy before, especially against terminators while anything with a 4+ or better save could survive just alright.

Now, I know alot of people are going to say like RampagingRavener that more boyz, better shootaz, and furious charge easily make up for the loss of choppas, and that probably is true. What really makes da ladz worse off against marines though is having all the burnas in the army list migrate to just three unit entries: Burnaboyz, Kommandos, and Big Meks. This severely effected the combat ability of many ork units, especially those mounted in trukks. Burnaboys not being able to take a transport really compounds this issue and makes them only really useful in green tide or dread bash style armies.

On top of that our Rokkits got a more than modest price hike and the fact you need 10 boyz for a 'eavy weapon, really honed down our marine killing ability. Horde armies really didn't suffer than the same as those that relied on smaller units.

So, having our choppas yanked AND our burnas really hurt to fight Space Marines.

Either way, it's a great to get a new codex at last. Space Marines are a bit harder to hit now but in exchange we get more bodies or better toyz to keep trying. The only thing that really makes me froth at the mouth is the Death Company.

marv335
22-01-2008, 16:51
I've been mowing down terminators like no-ones business with shokk attack guns.
swamping them with boyz works quite well too. Burna boyz go in a looted wagon too. no problems for me.

sabreu
22-01-2008, 16:53
Marv,

I refuse to jump on the shokk attack gun bandwagon. :P

RampagingRavener
22-01-2008, 16:56
So, having our choppas yanked AND our burnas really hurt to fight Space Marines.

Really? Did those three st3 Power Weapon attacks in a Trukk Boy Mob really make that much of a diffrence? Because they sure as hell didn't for me. The only time I remember them doing anything that useful, was for emergency anti-dreadnought work if the PK Nob fluffs his attacks. And Boyz mobs on foot were carrying Rokkits or Big Shootas.

Then again, I liked using them as Flamers instead of Power Weapons whenever I could...

Personally I've found the two extra Boyz in a Trukk-mounted Mob far more useful than the Burna.

Latro_
22-01-2008, 17:02
Not sure i agree about the marine nerfing, The loss of burnas in normal mobs is nothing really , The only reason to take one was in a truk boyz mob, big foot sloggas were always better off with rokkits. We all know its the nob with power klaw that is the marine killer.

Rokkit hike was acceptable since its the best by far option to take for the foot sloggas (gw always hike up popular options to encourage diversity).

With the waagghh move and the rumoured new run move in 5th ed makes orks as good as they were against marines just by the fact more of them will make it.

they're 2pts cheaper so more of them = more of them will make it
plus furious charge i think is statisticall as good on the charge as choppas (of course not in turns after, but again... you should have alot more boyz to offset this)

The main marine hurter if at all there is one is the lack of propper looted vehcle, a bassie with indirect fire really could pop a few heads.
edit, but as marv mentioned even this is offset by the ap2 SAG.

Sarevok
22-01-2008, 17:03
Although regular Boyz lost the choppa, they also became cheaper. Now you can get 30 Boyz with FC for the same as 20 with Choppa and Waaagh. So point for point they actually do MORE damage to Marines.
The only thing is that Marines hit first when they charge rather than at the same time, which may make a significant difference depending on the unit.

lack0fbettername
22-01-2008, 17:11
In my opinon the orks got better verse everyone except those guys in 2+ armour. The loss of the choppa was in most part offset by the addition of furious charge. As on the charge orks slugga boys are exactly the same mathmaticly as they were before.

Vs. A MEQ. on the charge.
Before we were hitting on 4+, wounding on 5+, and they were saving on 4+
Now we were hitting on 4+, wounding on 4+, and they were saving on 3+

These 2 create mathmaticly the same results. When chargin anything else except terminators or other 2+ armour baddies we are the same as before or Got Better.

Old Book on charge
GEQ - 4.5 Attacks = 1 Wound
MEQ - 12 Attacks = 1 Wound
TEQ - 12 Attacks = 1 Wound
T5/3+ Save - 24 Attacks = 1 wound

New Book on charge
GEQ - 3.375 Attacks = 1 Wound
MEQ - 12 Attacks = 1 Wound
TEQ - 24 Attacks = 1 Wound
T5/3+ Save - 18 Attacks = 1 wound

TEQ = terminator equivilent
T5/3+ = what it says, think death guard or bikers. Any ork player who played against deathguard in ether the new or old chaos codex knows how tuff it was to know these guys down. Its now easier.

After the charge your PowerKlaw will be doind most the work to take down heavily armoured infantry anyway.

Im tired of hearing people on the net/shop complain about the loss of the choppa. If on the charge (the only time i really care about my orks) we are mathmaticly ether the same or better against anyone who isnt in terminator armour im OK with that.

If you want to whine about something whine about the change of the waaagh rule. The fact that we are now I3 on the charge instead of I4 makes a big difference, the loss of the choppa does not.

Voodoo Boyz
22-01-2008, 17:18
Orks are as good if not better than they were against Marines. You have problems with Terminators? You've got FIVE, count them FIVE Power Klaw attacks from your Nob on the charge. Terminators go bye bye. I've even made them fail saves from mass Boyz attacks.

You want AP3 Pie plates? Kill Kannon Battlewagons. They're awesome, they screen Trukks, they kill MEQ's, it's just silly good.

Oh, and then there's the whole Shoota Boyz thing. You know, one of the most points efficient units in the game with an amazing amount of firepower that scares just about anything you shoot at, INCLUDING Marines.

Running any of the new Ork lists I've made, Marines are something I generally am not afraid of.

sabreu
22-01-2008, 17:24
To RampagingRavener and Latro,

Different army lists dictate different results. I myself speak from an angle of lots of Trukk boyz (I always ran three in a normal list, or all my units in a Kult of speed). I did play foot slogger lists on occasion, and Latro I totally agree with you.

But, Ravener, those TWO burnas in a trukk boy squad were damn tasty in my trukk boy mobs (boy and nob). With the smaller size, I really found it was better to have burnas to toast other horde armies (guard, nids, other orks, etc) or as a power weapon against elite armies (marines, necrons, sisters of battle, etc). I personally just ported my army from the old dex to the new one (making necessary changes) and have seen the effectiveness from my army in close combat notched down against marines. But that's just me.

Just to do a quick recap:

1.) I like the new codex. No way intend to sound like I'm whining. I really like the new setups, but of course it doesn't rub me 100% the right way.

2.) Just making a remark that in my personal experience I have seen a decline in combat effectiveness with my mounted troops against marines. I'm predominataly a mechanised/Kult of Speed player.

3.) SAGS are great weapon. Great for those who like to use 'em. My big mek is still going to rock his burna though.

4.) Cheaper boyz really don't mean much when you've filled your troops choice already before the new codex hit. :P

5.) Latro, I like reading rumours but I refuse to fall into that hype until the product is in my hands. I don't take internet dribble and go, "It will rock in the new edition!". That just reeks of blind faith. No insult intended, just my view on that.

Edit: Add-in

Lackofabettername,

Whose whining about choppas? Your comment seems a bit misplaced here. The discussion really is effectiveness against marines in general versus everyone else.

RampagingRavener
22-01-2008, 17:32
Well when it comes to 5th ed, odds are I'm staying with 4th. I've seen very, very little in the 5th ed rumours which I like the look of. So I'm not going to tip hours into relearning the new ruleset (especially when I don't get that many oppertunities to game) to just have it confirmed by armies are hosed and, suprise suprise, I need to go throw more money at GW to swap them around a bit.

Even with two Burnas, one at st3 and one at st4, I'm struggling to see how they could have been that good. Two flamer templates against lighter infantry definatly would have been handy, but against MEQ's I'd imagine the Klaw would be the better choice. Besides, overall with the cheaper Boyz and Bikes, wouldn't a KoS player be able to fit some more Bikes or Buggies in to make up for things?

sabreu
22-01-2008, 17:42
Ravener,

Just a differet outlook. In the old codex I could get a charge and strike before Marines with the nobs and exchange blows simultaneously with the rest of the boyz. In the new dex I can expect quite a few of my boyz taken out pre-initiative and since i HAD to switch to a power klaw to ensure some krumpiness in my trukk mobs I don't get the option of him exchanging blows at the same time unless I want to forego the armor negating properties of the power klaw.

As for your second question: I suppose. But with elites being more expensive (and formely troop choices in my KOS list) and having to buy a looted wagon as a transport for them, I really just got some extra wargear and what nots. Not complaining though, I like the new changes. It's just not a cut and paste answer as everyone is trying to give on this forum or others.

lack0fbettername
22-01-2008, 18:08
Sabuer i appolojize, whining was a poor choice of words, as noone in this thread has done any. Because of high the amount of ork players at the local game shop i hear complaining about the loss of the choppa, i just expected most any conversation about it to devolve in to complaints/whines.

The rest of my post was trying to mearly point out that furious charge more then makes up for the choppa loss Vs. Marines. And that are big problem is overcoming the I difference between the boys and the marines.

sabreu
22-01-2008, 18:19
Ah, I see. It's a syndrome I've seen too. But I agree with the rest of your post. The hit on initiative is a way bigger factor than anything else before, but even that I think can be circumvented through orky know wots.

lack0fbettername
22-01-2008, 18:48
Good to know its not just me. Be carefull though, it might be contagious.

Agreed, the thing is currently (4th ed) it is better to have your orks charge marines in cover while using stick bombz, then charge marines out in the open. I think the stickbomb chuckka should be on every truck, @ 5 points it is a steal.

baldbeachbum
23-01-2008, 06:47
Let me start by saying I like the codex and retooling my beloved orks because I love Orks.

It's the combination of I3 and no +4 choppa that hurts. Loosing the choppa by itself is not the problem but it's the combination. I just don't agree that adding 2 boyz to a trukk with +1S I3 on the charge offsets this loss. And strategic removal of the 2 or 3 wounded marines could mean the Nob never gets to attack.


I still don't see how Orks are going to deal with heavy armor. Why did Tankbustas gain glory hogs but loose tank hunters? Tankbustas can't take a transport so they can wait for the land raider to drive up and say hello.

But then to reduce special and heavy weapons to 1 for every 10 orks just makes no sense. This was never overpowering in the first place and 1 BS2 str8 rokkit or 1 big shoota will not hit much.

I just don't see how the Orks get better against marines.

Ronin_eX
23-01-2008, 07:34
Was it really fair that one 8 point model could take out one that cost in the region of 40-50 points? I'm not talking 4 of them but just one. That is a pretty obvious imbalance in my mind. I pay a premium on a squad with a great armour save only to have this save negated by a model less than a fourth the price. The worst part is that this ability only effects models with good armour saves which makes it a rather obvious and unneeded meta-game kludge.

In 2nd Orks had bolt pistols which gave them a -1 save mod in combat which made normal marines save at a 4+. On the other hand they had the same WS as a Guardsman, one attack and weren't overly close combat specialized, nor were they really a Horde so this was fine (an Ork cost quite a bit in 2nd actually). In 3rd the army dynamic was changed and they became the horde CC army we know today. However, because of limitations in the combat system and the armour save system someone had the bright idea to make choppas to simulate the -1 save mod. unfortunately it never took into account that it the -1 save mod was effective against all units, not just marines. So the rule was simply an anti-marine rule and what's more it effected terminators far worse than normal marines (whereas in 2nd terminators could usually ignore it for the most part).

So we have a rule based not around actual game balance but around the meta-game (almost all CC armies used an artificial means to counteract marines in CC in 3rd and they were manifest in Rending and Heavy Close Combat Weapons). These rules were needlessly gamey, lacked a lot of internal logic and were fairly unintuitive (how is that angry marine ripping a Land Raider open with his fists? Why is that guardmen not feeling the sharp edge of that choppa when my terminators are heavily crippled by it).

In the end choppas aren't needed anymore as Orks win through weight of attacks not pure quality. Ork units are now cheaper which means more of them which means more chances for marines to fail their saves (you know that they only save 1 in 3 to 1 in 6 times max right? That isn't exactly impossible odds). If anything marine players should fear Orks more because this codex made them less one dimensional and they can come up with plenty of plans to undermine their opponent. They are more versatile now and a greater amount of armies work with them, this diversity is scary enough by itself and Orks certainly don't need choppas to win.

Gorbad Ironclaw
23-01-2008, 07:47
personally just ported my army from the old dex to the new one


That might be the problem. While you can usually do so, in my experience it actually works better to completly scrap your old army list, and start anew with the same concept. Else you end up with a list that is just slightly out of kilter with the new book, it will work, it just never seems quite to be 'there', if you see what I mean?

Keadaen
23-01-2008, 10:33
This is a little off topic, but I figured I could ask it here so I wouldn't have to open up a new thread.

If I give a warboss a kombi-scorcha, does that mean I can use it as a powerweapon, for a single assault phase or a single attack, or can I use it continuously as such?

azimaith
23-01-2008, 10:35
Skorcha is not a burna.

It doesn't have a cutting flame.

Keadaen
23-01-2008, 10:51
Oh....stupid me, thanks for clarifying that got the two confused, thought the name could be interchanged like gretchen and grot (only just started looking over there rules, but they look fun ennough to pull me from what I am working on).

BajsArne
23-01-2008, 11:37
I think the most unfair part is that the lowered initiative combined with new marines getting bolt pistol and CCW. Makes small ork squads pretty worthless. Which is all right, now that I think about it.

Grand Master Raziel
23-01-2008, 13:19
In 2nd Orks had bolt pistols which gave them a -1 save mod in combat which made normal marines save at a 4+. On the other hand they had the same WS as a Guardsman, one attack and weren't overly close combat specialized, nor were they really a Horde so this was fine (an Ork cost quite a bit in 2nd actually). In 3rd the army dynamic was changed and they became the horde CC army we know today. However, because of limitations in the combat system and the armour save system someone had the bright idea to make choppas to simulate the -1 save mod. unfortunately it never took into account that it the -1 save mod was effective against all units, not just marines. So the rule was simply an anti-marine rule and what's more it effected terminators far worse than normal marines (whereas in 2nd terminators could usually ignore it for the most part).


Y'know, for about a year I've been saying that Orks with WS3 S4 and plain CCWs have almost exactly the same performance across the board as WS4 S3 Orks with Choppas. The math is exactly the same against GEQs and virtually the same against MEQs, the only difference being that MEQs kill one more Ork per every ten attacks. I guess the developers of the 3rd ed dex were a little too committed to WS4 Orks and that -1 save mod.


I think the most unfair part is that the lowered initiative combined with new marines getting bolt pistol and CCW. Makes small ork squads pretty worthless. Which is all right, now that I think about it.

Just as a point of clarification, not all marines are automatically getting the bolt pistol-CCW combo. That's just Chaos Marines. DA dex-styled marines are getting bolters and bolt pistols, but not CCWs. Gives them something to shoot before charging, but not an extra attack in CC.

BajsArne
23-01-2008, 14:37
I did say new marines. I think I can see a pattern leading to boltpistol and CCW being standard for all marines in the next codex.

marv335
23-01-2008, 14:42
I did say new marines. I think I can see a pattern leading to boltpistol and CCW being standard for all marines in the next codex.

I doubt that very much.
I am very confident the only marines getting access to BP/CCW will be assault marines (and possibly veterans/command squads)
Marines seem to be heading back to their 2nd ed loadout

Grand Master Raziel
23-01-2008, 14:48
I did say new marines. I think I can see a pattern leading to boltpistol and CCW being standard for all marines in the next codex.

DA-dex style marines are new marines. Codex: Dark Angels was released less than a year ago, and it's the template that Codex: Space Marines is likely to be redesigned with.

BajsArne
23-01-2008, 16:09
Oh sorry I thought BA and DA had wepaons. Oh well. Goody for the orks then.

baldbeachbum
23-01-2008, 20:36
Was it really fair that one 8 point model could take out one that cost in the region of 40-50 points?

I see what your saying but the this need applying across the board. How about a 25 point piece of wargear (ie. powerfist) eliminating a 250 point piece of armor.

Same goes for rending. So I see your argument but it would have to be applied to many other aspects of the game.

cailus
23-01-2008, 23:12
I really like the new codex especially because I am now playing a true horde as opposed to one with slightly more models than your average one..

My only problem with the new codex is that there's too many typos and too many vague rules.

But then I suppose proof reading is not one of GW's core competencies.

Vault-Dweller
24-01-2008, 01:14
Well I am sure that the countless different improvements will help against marines as well as other armies

baldbeachbum
24-01-2008, 01:16
I really like the new codex especially because I am now playing a true horde as opposed to one with slightly more models than your average one..

My only problem with the new codex is that there's too many typos and too many vague rules.

But then I suppose proof reading is not one of GW's core competencies.

I agree totally. The point is to have that horde army. It's painful to loose the intimidating Ork choppa (aka choppa at I4) but the point of the new codex is Horde.

I would be worried and think something wrong if GW suddenly proof read their work.

AmBlam
24-01-2008, 03:23
Maybe it was supposed to be written by Orks

AmBlam
24-01-2008, 03:23
I guess then it would be in Orkish

BajsArne
24-01-2008, 10:07
For some reason though, orkish is the same as cockney english.

Gen.Steiner
24-01-2008, 10:35
For some reason though, orkish is the same as cockney english.

Um. Actually, no, it's based on the archetypical football hooligan and generic skinhead, as they have been portrayed.

Cockney sounds nothing like Ork. For one thing, it's dying out. :p

Moriarty
24-01-2008, 16:17
For some reason though, orkish is the same as cockney english.

Shouldn't that be 'cockerney'?

(love that Dick van Dyke).

Peril
24-01-2008, 17:29
For all the crying about the choppa it seems to have been lost in the shuffle here that Ork shooting got a LOT better. BS3 Gunz/Kanz, Assault 2 Shootas, LOOTAS ... yes Orks aren't the close combat nightmare any more, but now they have more options than just running as fast as possible and hoping to get into combat.

victorpofa
24-01-2008, 20:49
For all the crying about the choppa it seems to have been lost in the shuffle here that Ork shooting got a LOT better. BS3 Gunz/Kanz, Assault 2 Shootas, LOOTAS ...

It was most definitely not lost on me. I went from planning an army with no shootas to one with two mobs of 20 shootas. One mob on foot backing up the boyz, and one mob in a gorespeeda style battlewagon to cart them around the battlefield and provide fire support with its kannon and rokkits. :evilgrin: I even built three Kans which would never have happened under the old Codex. BS3 FTW.

Darkhorse
24-01-2008, 21:11
The problems as I see it lie in the anti-tank dept. speaking as a Blood Axe /Mechanised Guard player in the old list I could, (indeed under WD rules had to) take Kommandos as an anti-tank unit with tank-busta bommz, that option has gone and my looted vehicle pool has been seriously nerfed. However my surviving Rhino will seve as a Burnaboy transport, to stikk-it to the person who thought they only went with green horde.:rolleyes:
With my Russ I'll have to choose between armour and firepower, though I think the latter to be more likely.
I find myself trying to choose the winner of the 3rd Elite slot, betwen Tank-bustas and looterz though at that point I should be over 2000 pts and Apoc. looms large.

LirEdinSun
25-01-2008, 10:09
I a little disapointed about the 'lootas' options, middle of last year I started a 10 man squad of Ork snipers, I wanted to take advantage of the orks 4+ to hit for sniper weapons, I used space marine bolters with an extended barrel, I finished my squad a month ago and the new codex has dropped that option, so I got 10 dust magnets now, is there anything I can use them for i.e. 'count as'.

and dropping the looted vehicles as well is disappointing as well, I like my converting and wanted to make an army fully utilising all the looting options, I was going to call them 'da te-vin gitz' (aka the thieving gitz) a whole ork clan that are renouned thieves and scavangers. I even had a basilisk ready for converting as well. and a CSM defiler that was going to become a cobbled together dreadnaught (but that is still possible).

the new codex has seriously cramped my style and ideas

big squig
25-01-2008, 10:21
The problems as I see it lie in the anti-tank dept. speaking as a Blood Axe /Mechanised Guard player in the old list I could, (indeed under WD rules had to) take Kommandos as an anti-tank unit with tank-busta bommz, that option has gone and my looted vehicle pool has been seriously nerfed. However my surviving Rhino will seve as a Burnaboy transport, to stikk-it to the person who thought they only went with green horde.:rolleyes:
With my Russ I'll have to choose between armour and firepower, though I think the latter to be more likely.
I find myself trying to choose the winner of the 3rd Elite slot, betwen Tank-bustas and looterz though at that point I should be over 2000 pts and Apoc. looms large.
Wow, you and I are in like the EXACT same boat. It's insane that kommandos can't take tank busta bombz beingthat they are modeled on them right out of the box.

What I did is I stopped taking so many kommandos. I just have one squad now and I usually take snikrot with them. The bulk of my army is wanna guard be 10 man stron shoota mobz.

As for my tanks, I had a chimera, two rhinos, a leman, and a bassie. I tore them all to pieces, grabbed some gubbinz, and went off to the mek's shop. Now I have two looted tanks with big guns and a looted transport. I'm especially proud of my rhino chassy mounting a sawed off earthshaker.

If you really wan to take a leman as is, use the battle wagon. It's not 'exactly' the same, but it's close. Me? I was too tempted to rip it apart and ork it up.

big squig
25-01-2008, 10:26
I a little disapointed about the 'lootas' options, middle of last year I started a 10 man squad of Ork snipers, I wanted to take advantage of the orks 4+ to hit for sniper weapons, I used space marine bolters with an extended barrel, I finished my squad a month ago and the new codex has dropped that option, so I got 10 dust magnets now, is there anything I can use them for i.e. 'count as'.

and dropping the looted vehicles as well is disappointing as well, I like my converting and wanted to make an army fully utilising all the looting options, I was going to call them 'da te-vin gitz' (aka the thieving gitz) a whole ork clan that are renouned thieves and scavangers. I even had a basilisk ready for converting as well. and a CSM defiler that was going to become a cobbled together dreadnaught (but that is still possible).

the new codex has seriously cramped my style and ideas

well, as for the lootas, continue converting. Add some major dakka to those guns. Slap more looted weapon bits on there uniil you can bearly see the ork holding it. Give that sniper rifle a combi plasma, a multi-melta ammo feed, a heavy bolter mount, a mille launcher targeting system, rokkits, shootas, and all sorts of other dakka.

As for your tanks, it sounds like you will be ok. I mean, if you were going to scratch together your tanks, then that's what there supposed to be. Yeah, they're armor 11, but is any tank made up of blown up tank parts and ork plates really supposed to be better armored?

baldbeachbum
26-01-2008, 08:29
I don't see where burna boyz can take transports. From what I can tell burna boyz and tankbustaz both can not take a transport.

GodofWarTx
26-01-2008, 09:09
I dig the new Ork codex. It DOES irk me that its so cool and colorful while my Blood Angels seem so drab in comparison. The new ork book is a wonderful read through with a really solid diverse list.

Also, it is kind of amusing how all the tricks from the BA codex migrated to the Ork codex in the forms of everyone getting furious charge and the Ork Stormboyz having the same 12" + D6 movement as Death Company marines w/ jumppacks did.

WolfScout
26-01-2008, 09:32
I don't see where burna boyz can take transports. From what I can tell burna boyz and tankbustaz both can not take a transport.

Battlewagons and looted vehicles can transport. Da Burnaz just don't have dedicated ones.

Yertle4
26-01-2008, 09:35
The choppa rule was racist anyway :)

Brother Siccarius
26-01-2008, 10:09
Now, I know alot of people are going to say like RampagingRavener that more boyz, better shootaz, and furious charge easily make up for the loss of choppas, and that probably is true. What really makes da ladz worse off against marines though is having all the burnas in the army list migrate to just three unit entries: Burnaboyz, Kommandos, and Big Meks. This severely effected the combat ability of many ork units, especially those mounted in trukks. Burnaboys not being able to take a transport really compounds this issue and makes them only really useful in green tide or dread bash style armies.

You could...you know... stick them in the 60-70 point looted wagon with skorcha and make it extra burny.

big squig
26-01-2008, 11:33
I don't see where burna boyz can take transports. From what I can tell burna boyz and tankbustaz both can not take a transport.
I've been putting mine in a looted wagon to much success.

Dakkagor
26-01-2008, 12:51
the wrath of kan army is wickedly vicous now. The ability to put down a nasty 11 walkers will totally overload the ability of just about any army to crack, and considering each of those walkers is borderline immune to CC attacks, they can make a real mess of marine armies in CC (Avoiding powerfists ofcourse) Throw in two SAGs, mobs of lootaz and burnaz, and you have a fluffy army of mekz and mad scientists that can annihilate the opposition with shooting. Shooting a black templars army clean of the table is a nice, warm and fuzzy feeling.

I really, really want to try the above list :chrome:

While loosing choppas is a pain, the ability is there to counter that loss. Softening up a space marine unit with your (now awesome) shooting is the key to victory, and assaulting alongside big CC hitters (dreads especially). tactics and kunning and dakka are now the keys to victory, not just giving the marine boys a taste of boot levva.

Vault-Dweller
26-01-2008, 15:46
But most of all: the new codex is about 400% more fun to play with.

Thud
26-01-2008, 15:55
But most of all: the new codex is about 400% more fun to play with.

Indeed! Orks was my first army in 40k (I started up with the release of 3rd edition) and after a couple of years I sold them all because they were boring to play with. Now, with the new codex out, I am very tempted to get a new Ork army.

shadowsun68
29-01-2008, 13:05
Indeed! Orks was my first army in 40k (I started up with the release of 3rd edition) and after a couple of years I sold them all because they were boring to play with. Now, with the new codex out, I am very tempted to get a new Ork army.

Same here, i will be buy big mek with sog along with 2x 20 boys with shootas and 2x 30 boys with sluggas along with 1 or 2 full squads of lootas dont know how many full squad is havnt got the codex yet but that will be my core.

jamsessionein
29-01-2008, 14:30
the wrath of kan army is wickedly vicous now. The ability to put down a nasty 11 walkers will totally overload the ability of just about any army to crack, and considering each of those walkers is borderline immune to CC attacks, they can make a real mess of marine armies in CC (Avoiding powerfists ofcourse) Throw in two SAGs, mobs of lootaz and burnaz, and you have a fluffy army of mekz and mad scientists that can annihilate the opposition with shooting. Shooting a black templars army clean of the table is a nice, warm and fuzzy feeling.

I really, really want to try the above list :chrome:

I've taken a Dread Mob in a small, 1,000 point game before. Basically 9 Kans, 2 Dreads, and 2 Big Meks fills 800 points on the nose, and you can take a couple infantry or a trukk squad or what have you for the difference. Two SAGs is overkill, though - I bring one, and the other gets a KFF to keep the walkers protected to some degree. Also without a SAG that mek is mobile enough to follow the mob around and bang out any dents with Mek's tools.

It's not even a competition. Most armies can't handle that much armor walking at them at such low points as 1k, and it's all actually to force org. I've played the list a couple times, and the only way it's even slightly competetive is when I warn my opponent to mass up on as much anti armor fire as he can in his list before the game.

Some armies have a better chance against it, such as Grey Knights and their S6 CCWs, but they're expensive, few, and get chewed up by klaws in close combat.

baldbeachbum
30-01-2008, 04:42
the wrath of kan army is wickedly vicous now.

The wrath of Kan does sound good. Ive seen it many times but not tried it myself. Now with BS3 this could be interesting. 9 rokkits shooting around everywhere while shielding the rest of the army would be fun indeed.